hi there,are the spendors and pmc,s a big jump in sound quality over the atc11s? because iv just upgraded to the primare i30 and have been thinking my atc11s might not be doing the amp justice with them only being £850 and the amp £1500. i really like the look of the spendors and pmc,s so how much better are they? would they be a worth while upgrade or will i need to go a bit higher up in the price range to see a big improvement? is it worth me upgrading and selling my atcs and dreadnought stands ? cheers guys.
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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
atc11s vs spendor a5s,pmc gb1i
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when i was researching my scm19's, one of the only reviews i could find was an old whf one where they reviewed a cd31 + i30 + scm19. i think it was a best buy system review. if you like the atc sound, then it might be worth a demo. i haven't heard the scm11 so can't comment on the amount of improvement but there will be lower bass due to the cabinet/driver size and the scm19 uses a totally different mid/bass driver. i recently had some dali mentor 2's on home dem, and while good speakers with an entertaining sound, when playing something well recorded the scm19's pulled well ahead making the mentor sound a little vague and muddy.
glad you're loving the i30, i was really impressed with the improvement over the kandy. i know from your previous thread that you would like the matching cdp, but if you get chance you should check out the roksan caspian cdp, i thought it went really well with the i30. the bass was so solid i felt i could touch it!
glad you're loving the i30, i was really impressed with the improvement over the kandy. i know from your previous thread that you would like the matching cdp, but if you get chance you should check out the roksan caspian cdp, i thought it went really well with the i30. the bass was so solid i felt i could touch it!
Craig M.:
when i was researching my scm19's, one of the only reviews i could find was an old whf one where they reviewed a cd31 + i30 + scm19. i think it was a best buy system review. if you like the atc sound, then it might be worth a demo. i haven't heard the scm11 so can't comment on the amount of improvement but there will be lower bass due to the cabinet/driver size and the scm19 uses a totally different mid/bass driver. i recently had some dali mentor 2's on home dem, and while good speakers with an entertaining sound, when playing something well recorded the scm19's pulled well ahead making the mentor sound a little vague and muddy.
glad you're loving the i30, i was really impressed with the improvement over the kandy. i know from your previous thread that you would like the matching cdp, but if you get chance you should check out the roksan caspian cdp, i thought it went really well with the i30. the bass was so solid i felt i could touch it!
thanks for your help craig, but iv got my heart set on the cd31 to match the amp. im looking at connecting them up with the balanced inputs to get the best out of them .
when i was researching my scm19's, one of the only reviews i could find was an old whf one where they reviewed a cd31 + i30 + scm19. i think it was a best buy system review. if you like the atc sound, then it might be worth a demo. i haven't heard the scm11 so can't comment on the amount of improvement but there will be lower bass due to the cabinet/driver size and the scm19 uses a totally different mid/bass driver. i recently had some dali mentor 2's on home dem, and while good speakers with an entertaining sound, when playing something well recorded the scm19's pulled well ahead making the mentor sound a little vague and muddy.
glad you're loving the i30, i was really impressed with the improvement over the kandy. i know from your previous thread that you would like the matching cdp, but if you get chance you should check out the roksan caspian cdp, i thought it went really well with the i30. the bass was so solid i felt i could touch it!
thanks for your help craig, but iv got my heart set on the cd31 to match the amp. im looking at connecting them up with the balanced inputs to get the best out of them .
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Hi fowler
Look at the SCM19's. They are significantly better than the SCM11's and a great match for Primare electronics. We sell more 19's than 11's and by quite a margin
With the SCM7 and SCM11's ATC give a taste of what they are capable of but its' with the SCM19's and above that they really start to flex their muscles.
The SCM19's use ATC Super Linear Magnet Technology in the mid bass driver. This massive mid bass unit itself weighs 9kg which is more than a complete SCM11. You can read more about the SLMM technology and it's benefits here - http://www.atc.gb.net/downloads/CompanyProfile.pdf (page 10 for SLMM technology)
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
Look at the SCM19's. They are significantly better than the SCM11's and a great match for Primare electronics. We sell more 19's than 11's and by quite a margin
With the SCM7 and SCM11's ATC give a taste of what they are capable of but its' with the SCM19's and above that they really start to flex their muscles.
The SCM19's use ATC Super Linear Magnet Technology in the mid bass driver. This massive mid bass unit itself weighs 9kg which is more than a complete SCM11. You can read more about the SLMM technology and it's benefits here - http://www.atc.gb.net/downloads/CompanyProfile.pdf (page 10 for SLMM technology)
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
I think anybody who likes the ATC's aren't going to be much of a fan of the A5's as they're extremely laid back and smooth in comparison. PMC is more of a possibility. The two designs are very different - the PMC's are transmission line whereas the ATC's are sealed cabinets. This gives the PMC's an advantage when it comes to ultimate depth, where the ATC's aren't exactly slouches, but this does make them less room friendly. I also find the bass of the ATC's to be more even and realistic.
I think because of how good the SCM11's are, you'd have to be looking nearer the £2k mark to improve on them, although some people may find a few speakers at the £1500 price point may be more suitable in a couple of areas. If the i30 is up to the job, it's worth looking at the SCM40's, but also try the Proac D18's.
I think because of how good the SCM11's are, you'd have to be looking nearer the £2k mark to improve on them, although some people may find a few speakers at the £1500 price point may be more suitable in a couple of areas. If the i30 is up to the job, it's worth looking at the SCM40's, but also try the Proac D18's.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Craig M.:
when i was researching my scm19's, one of the only reviews i could find was an old whf one where they reviewed a cd31 + i30 + scm19. i think it was a best buy system review. if you like the atc sound, then it might be worth a demo. i haven't heard the scm11 so can't comment on the amount of improvement but there will be lower bass due to the cabinet/driver size and the scm19 uses a totally different mid/bass driver. i recently had some dali mentor 2's on home dem, and while good speakers with an entertaining sound, when playing something well recorded the scm19's pulled well ahead making the mentor sound a little vague and muddy.
glad you're loving the i30, i was really impressed with the improvement over the kandy. i know from your previous thread that you would like the matching cdp, but if you get chance you should check out the roksan caspian cdp, i thought it went really well with the i30. the bass was so solid i felt i could touch it!
Hi Craig
How many hours have you put on the SCM19's?
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
when i was researching my scm19's, one of the only reviews i could find was an old whf one where they reviewed a cd31 + i30 + scm19. i think it was a best buy system review. if you like the atc sound, then it might be worth a demo. i haven't heard the scm11 so can't comment on the amount of improvement but there will be lower bass due to the cabinet/driver size and the scm19 uses a totally different mid/bass driver. i recently had some dali mentor 2's on home dem, and while good speakers with an entertaining sound, when playing something well recorded the scm19's pulled well ahead making the mentor sound a little vague and muddy.
glad you're loving the i30, i was really impressed with the improvement over the kandy. i know from your previous thread that you would like the matching cdp, but if you get chance you should check out the roksan caspian cdp, i thought it went really well with the i30. the bass was so solid i felt i could touch it!
Hi Craig
How many hours have you put on the SCM19's?
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
thanks for the replys guys. hello rick, i bought my atc11's off you last year after speaking to you on the phone, any way are the atc19's and atc40's sealed units like the 11's because i have my speakers quite close to a wall? would the primare be able to power the 40's as its only 100 watt per channel?
hi rick, not sure how many hours but lots! as they have run in they've just got better and better. i am probably never going to be able to listen to another speaker without hearing distortion, you've ruined me!
i don't think i will ever change them unless i move to a much bigger house and can get the 40's.
fowler, the 19's are sealed and can go right up against the wall. never seen the 40's so don't know.
fowler, the 19's are sealed and can go right up against the wall. never seen the 40's so don't know.
John Duncan
Well-known member
I think the GB1s are fabulous with the i30 (and dinky and schweet), so definitely worth listening to - haven't heard the ATCs though....
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
cheers fellas ,ill be sure to audition the atc 19's,40's and the spendors and pmc's thanks for your help.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
fowler:thanks for the replys guys. hello rick, i bought my atc11's off you last year after speaking to you on the phone, any way are the atc19's and atc40's sealed units like the 11's because i have my speakers quite close to a wall? would the primare be able to power the 40's as its only 100 watt per channel?
Hi Fowler
Thanks for your reply.
Yes i remember selling the ATC's you. I did try and call you a few months ago to see how you were getting on but could not get through. Is your land line number still the same?
The SCM19's and SCM40's are closed box designs (as are all the Entry Series speakers) and they will quite happily work close to a wall without the sound getting itself in a twist. This is due mainly to those precisely/massively built and very advanced drive units resulting in extremely low distortion levels which help give a superbly neutral, uncoloured and above all a natural presentation.
I have been using a modestly priced/powered (£275/50w/ch) in many demonstrations with ATC speakers for nearly two years now to show that an amplifier the size of a truck is really not needed unless disco levels is the goal. The sound from ATC's is so dynamic that after a while listening at low to moderate levels is more than good enough.
The Primare will power the SCM40's and with the 40's also featuring the state of the art studio soft dome mid range unit the performance should be stunning. http://www.atc.gb.net/studioDriveUnits.htm
The ATC's are quiet and effective messengers.
Thanks for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Hi Fowler
Thanks for your reply.
Yes i remember selling the ATC's you. I did try and call you a few months ago to see how you were getting on but could not get through. Is your land line number still the same?
The SCM19's and SCM40's are closed box designs (as are all the Entry Series speakers) and they will quite happily work close to a wall without the sound getting itself in a twist. This is due mainly to those precisely/massively built and very advanced drive units resulting in extremely low distortion levels which help give a superbly neutral, uncoloured and above all a natural presentation.
I have been using a modestly priced/powered (£275/50w/ch) in many demonstrations with ATC speakers for nearly two years now to show that an amplifier the size of a truck is really not needed unless disco levels is the goal. The sound from ATC's is so dynamic that after a while listening at low to moderate levels is more than good enough.
The Primare will power the SCM40's and with the 40's also featuring the state of the art studio soft dome mid range unit the performance should be stunning. http://www.atc.gb.net/studioDriveUnits.htm
The ATC's are quiet and effective messengers.
Thanks for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
chebby
Well-known member
MUSICRAFT:I have been using a modestly priced/powered (£275/50w/ch) in many demonstrations with ATC speakers for nearly two years now to show that an amplifier the size of a truck is really not needed unless disco levels is the goal. The sound from ATC's is so dynamic that after a while listening at low to moderate levels is more than good enough.
Oh thank you! I wish we could have more excellent common sense contributions like this regarding power requirements for 'normal' domestic listening levels. ('Normal' as in people with families and neighbours.)
I heard exactly the same advice earlier this year during a phone call to the only (current) manufacturer of BBC LS3/5A's. He assured me that his 'factory' demos are all done with a 40w per channel Denon amp worth £200 when he bought it! (The guy actually recommended a 'budget NAD' as being ideal if a decent valve amp was not affordable.)
I must look at these ATCs.
Thanks.
Oh thank you! I wish we could have more excellent common sense contributions like this regarding power requirements for 'normal' domestic listening levels. ('Normal' as in people with families and neighbours.)
I heard exactly the same advice earlier this year during a phone call to the only (current) manufacturer of BBC LS3/5A's. He assured me that his 'factory' demos are all done with a 40w per channel Denon amp worth £200 when he bought it! (The guy actually recommended a 'budget NAD' as being ideal if a decent valve amp was not affordable.)
I must look at these ATCs.
Thanks.
For speakers designed to work in small rooms sitting quite closely, that's fine. Stick an insensitive standmounter in a medium to large room and you need more grunt. Too many variables to generalise on these things.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Hi igglebert
The £275 50w/ch amplifer that i often use has more enough power to push the ATC speakers beyond most normal listening levels in a fairly large room.
If i am not asked to than i will instead show customers (with their consent) by gradually turning the volume up beyond moderate levels. It's not long before i am asked to turn the volume back down and this is well before the amplifier is clipping. This is not because the ATC's are not relaying things cleanly as they still sound terrific at high levels. The quality of power is more important than the overall quantity and when you've got low distortion, superbly dynamic and natural speakers such as ATC's it goes to show that they do not need to be played at above moderate levels for much of the time with an amplifier the size of a truck (even a farily large room) to apreciate their qualities.
The ATC's engineering is more than good enough make up for a limitations in the quantity of amplifier power.
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
The £275 50w/ch amplifer that i often use has more enough power to push the ATC speakers beyond most normal listening levels in a fairly large room.
If i am not asked to than i will instead show customers (with their consent) by gradually turning the volume up beyond moderate levels. It's not long before i am asked to turn the volume back down and this is well before the amplifier is clipping. This is not because the ATC's are not relaying things cleanly as they still sound terrific at high levels. The quality of power is more important than the overall quantity and when you've got low distortion, superbly dynamic and natural speakers such as ATC's it goes to show that they do not need to be played at above moderate levels for much of the time with an amplifier the size of a truck (even a farily large room) to apreciate their qualities.
The ATC's engineering is more than good enough make up for a limitations in the quantity of amplifier power.
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
Fair enough! I expect that you have more experience than I do. I'm intrigued by the ATCs. I'm about to move house so if I decide I need a bigger speaker...
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Hi igglebert
Thanks for your reply.
They are a heavyily engineering based company. Please have a read when you have got a moment to spare. It's an interesting read.
http://www.atc.gb.net/downloads/CompanyProfile.pdf
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
Thanks for your reply.
They are a heavyily engineering based company. Please have a read when you have got a moment to spare. It's an interesting read.
http://www.atc.gb.net/downloads/CompanyProfile.pdf
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
Cheers Rick. I've had a good trawl but it's down to the sound for me, one that I'm yet to hear. I have a long and promising hifi life ahead, I shall pencil ATC in for future moves
. Thanks again.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Craig M.:
hi rick, not sure how many hours but lots! as they have run in they've just got better and better. i am probably never going to be able to listen to another speaker without hearing distortion, you've ruined me!
i don't think i will ever change them unless i move to a much bigger house and can get the 40's.
fowler, the 19's are sealed and can go right up against the wall. never seen the 40's so don't know.
Hi Craig
Thanks for your reply.
IME the ATC's take around 500hrs to fully loosen up. So if you have not reached this level yet than be prepared because there are even better things to come.
I have not ruined you but have rescued you from distortion.
Distortion is the enemy!
Thanks for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
hi rick, not sure how many hours but lots! as they have run in they've just got better and better. i am probably never going to be able to listen to another speaker without hearing distortion, you've ruined me!
fowler, the 19's are sealed and can go right up against the wall. never seen the 40's so don't know.
Hi Craig
Thanks for your reply.
IME the ATC's take around 500hrs to fully loosen up. So if you have not reached this level yet than be prepared because there are even better things to come.
I have not ruined you but have rescued you from distortion.
Thanks for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
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