ATC SCM11 vs PMC DB1i
- Thread starter plastic penguin
- Start date
atc pros - natural, uncoloured, accurate, dynamic, realistic, easy to position, revealing, transparent, value for money, long warranty, true to the source.
pmc pros - smaller than atc.
that's my totally unbiased view.
pmc pros - smaller than atc.
that's my totally unbiased view.
So where are the deficiencies of the PMC's? When I tested them at home some time back they were great, with the exception of the lowest frequencies. So do the ATC's outpunch and outperform the PMC's in every area, given they are fairly similar in price?
to be honest pp, it's a while since i heard the db1i's. my recollections of them in comparison to atc are not favourable but that could be entirely down to my taste in sound. i remember a full sounding speaker that was "musical" (whatever that means) and sparkly, sweet treble. however, when ever i compare speakers to atc, i find they sound muffled, stodgy and slow. i think with atc, you are hearing the music not the speakers, if that makes sense.
also, i might as well say that for me the whole "atc are too honest(!)" and will murder poor recordings is a none issue. i think part of it is down to how good a decent recording sounds through them. also, those speakers which somehow make a bad recording more palatable by covering the deficiencies with their own distortion, are also covering up the better recordings with their own distortion.
for me, it took a couple of weeks to adjust to the atc sound (or lack of), now i have i wouldn't change for anything - other speakers almost sound broken in comparison.
he's had flack on here in the past, but if you are seriously considering atc, i recommend talking to rick at musicraft.
he can talk the hind legs off a donkey
, but he really does know his onions when it comes to atc and could explain better then i can what makes then so good.
also, i might as well say that for me the whole "atc are too honest(!)" and will murder poor recordings is a none issue. i think part of it is down to how good a decent recording sounds through them. also, those speakers which somehow make a bad recording more palatable by covering the deficiencies with their own distortion, are also covering up the better recordings with their own distortion.
for me, it took a couple of weeks to adjust to the atc sound (or lack of), now i have i wouldn't change for anything - other speakers almost sound broken in comparison.
he's had flack on here in the past, but if you are seriously considering atc, i recommend talking to rick at musicraft.
he can talk the hind legs off a donkey
Craig M.:
to be honest pp, it's a while since i heard the db1i's. my recollections of them in comparison to atc are not favourable but that could be entirely down to my taste in sound. i remember a full sounding speaker that was "musical" (whatever that means) and sparkly, sweet treble. however, when ever i compare speakers to atc, i find they sound muffled, stodgy and slow. i think with atc, you are hearing the music not the speakers, if that makes sense.
also, i might as well say that for me the whole "atc are too honest(!)" and will murder poor recordings is a none issue. i think part of it is down to how good a decent recording sounds through them. also, those speakers which somehow make a bad recording more palatable by covering the deficiencies with their own distortion, are also covering up the better recordings with their own distortion.
for me, it took a couple of weeks to adjust to the atc sound (or lack of), now i have i wouldn't change for anything - other speakers almost sound broken in comparison.
he's had flack on here in the past, but if you are seriously considering atc, i recommend talking to rick at musicraft.
he can talk the hind legs off a donkey
, but he really does know his onions when it comes to atc and could explain better then i can what makes then so good.
Thanks Craig - I was hoping to engauge the guys at WHFI. I heard the ATC's at 'The towers' and sounded very impressive. However, the kit on demonstration - Naim aside - is unfamiliar to me - course, the acoustics, also, is a little different to a typical living room. By contrast, the DB1's were tested on my kit and, likewise, sounded very good indeed. That aside, I feel my amp was to blame for the DB1's inability to punch out the lower frequencies.
to be honest pp, it's a while since i heard the db1i's. my recollections of them in comparison to atc are not favourable but that could be entirely down to my taste in sound. i remember a full sounding speaker that was "musical" (whatever that means) and sparkly, sweet treble. however, when ever i compare speakers to atc, i find they sound muffled, stodgy and slow. i think with atc, you are hearing the music not the speakers, if that makes sense.
also, i might as well say that for me the whole "atc are too honest(!)" and will murder poor recordings is a none issue. i think part of it is down to how good a decent recording sounds through them. also, those speakers which somehow make a bad recording more palatable by covering the deficiencies with their own distortion, are also covering up the better recordings with their own distortion.
for me, it took a couple of weeks to adjust to the atc sound (or lack of), now i have i wouldn't change for anything - other speakers almost sound broken in comparison.
he's had flack on here in the past, but if you are seriously considering atc, i recommend talking to rick at musicraft.
he can talk the hind legs off a donkey
Thanks Craig - I was hoping to engauge the guys at WHFI. I heard the ATC's at 'The towers' and sounded very impressive. However, the kit on demonstration - Naim aside - is unfamiliar to me - course, the acoustics, also, is a little different to a typical living room. By contrast, the DB1's were tested on my kit and, likewise, sounded very good indeed. That aside, I feel my amp was to blame for the DB1's inability to punch out the lower frequencies.
plastic penguin:I feel my amp was to blame for the DB1's inability to punch out the lower frequencies.
You never know, the DB1s might just be too lightweight for you. After all, MA RS6s whack out ridiculous quantities of bass. Maybe GB1i would be more your cup of tea.
You never know, the DB1s might just be too lightweight for you. After all, MA RS6s whack out ridiculous quantities of bass. Maybe GB1i would be more your cup of tea.
igglebert:plastic penguin:I feel my amp was to blame for the DB1's inability to punch out the lower frequencies. You never know, the DB1s might just be too lightweight for you. After all, MA RS6s whack out ridiculous quantities of bass. Maybe GB1i would be more your cup of tea.
You're probably right, iggle, although I geared myself towards a leaner, more agile sound. Hence why I'm trying to gauge qualified opinion on the above speakers.
You're probably right, iggle, although I geared myself towards a leaner, more agile sound. Hence why I'm trying to gauge qualified opinion on the above speakers.
Well, if I may, the ATCs are sealed boxes so are likely to produce a more accurate bass than the DB1i. Infinite baffle boxes are easier to place and are usually harder to drive than transmission line or ported types.
There's a pair of SCM7's for sale at the moment. They were, I believe, entry-level model, but no doubt the 11's share the same traits.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Craig M.:
to be honest pp, it's a while since i heard the db1i's. my recollections of them in comparison to atc are not favourable but that could be entirely down to my taste in sound. i remember a full sounding speaker that was "musical" (whatever that means) and sparkly, sweet treble. however, when ever i compare speakers to atc, i find they sound muffled, stodgy and slow. i think with atc, you are hearing the music not the speakers, if that makes sense.
also, i might as well say that for me the whole "atc are too honest(!)" and will murder poor recordings is a none issue. i think part of it is down to how good a decent recording sounds through them. also, those speakers which somehow make a bad recording more palatable by covering the deficiencies with their own distortion, are also covering up the better recordings with their own distortion.
for me, it took a couple of weeks to adjust to the atc sound (or lack of), now i have i wouldn't change for anything - other speakers almost sound broken in comparison.
he's had flack on here in the past, but if you are seriously considering atc, i recommend talking to rick at musicraft.
he can talk the hind legs off a donkey
, but he really does know his onions when it comes to atc and could explain better then i can what makes then so good.
Hi Craig M.
Thanks for your kind words and for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
to be honest pp, it's a while since i heard the db1i's. my recollections of them in comparison to atc are not favourable but that could be entirely down to my taste in sound. i remember a full sounding speaker that was "musical" (whatever that means) and sparkly, sweet treble. however, when ever i compare speakers to atc, i find they sound muffled, stodgy and slow. i think with atc, you are hearing the music not the speakers, if that makes sense.
also, i might as well say that for me the whole "atc are too honest(!)" and will murder poor recordings is a none issue. i think part of it is down to how good a decent recording sounds through them. also, those speakers which somehow make a bad recording more palatable by covering the deficiencies with their own distortion, are also covering up the better recordings with their own distortion.
for me, it took a couple of weeks to adjust to the atc sound (or lack of), now i have i wouldn't change for anything - other speakers almost sound broken in comparison.
he's had flack on here in the past, but if you are seriously considering atc, i recommend talking to rick at musicraft.
he can talk the hind legs off a donkey
Hi Craig M.
Thanks for your kind words and for your support.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
plastic penguin:Discuss the pros and cons of both, please.Without getting into the usual room/music/system/compatibility thing, and the fact that there's no single speaker that will suit everyone, here's what I think.
Between the two mentioned, it's a little one sided. The ATC has size going for it - not only internal cabinet volume, but also a sligtly larger driver. This helps the 11's shift more air, along with the fact that the ATC's use a longer throw bass driver. Aldo, with their sealed cabinet, their bass gives a much smoother response compared to the transmission line of the DB1i's, which is going to be sensitive of room boundaries. One thing I have noticed in demonstrations, is that the ATC does produce less distortion - the DB1i's have a little mid/bass distortion - this is due to the transmission line system. Because of teh way it works, there's a panel very near to the back of the drive unit. This isnt really an issue in other PMC's as they have more cabinet volume to play with. If you're listening at lowish volumes, you'll find the PMC's sweeter and a much more lively, in comparison to the SCM11, which will come into their own at mid to higher volumes, sounding slightly duller in comparison to the PMC's at lower volumes.
My money would be on the SCM11's, but I wouldn't be able to ignore the ProAc Studio 100's and the KEF XQ20's, both with their own set of strong points.
Having said all that, the SCM11 should really be compared to the TB2i. I know there's a price difference, but these two are more comparable in physical size, and driver size. This would be a closer call, and, as always, one of preference, which will also be affected by the user's amplification.
Between the two mentioned, it's a little one sided. The ATC has size going for it - not only internal cabinet volume, but also a sligtly larger driver. This helps the 11's shift more air, along with the fact that the ATC's use a longer throw bass driver. Aldo, with their sealed cabinet, their bass gives a much smoother response compared to the transmission line of the DB1i's, which is going to be sensitive of room boundaries. One thing I have noticed in demonstrations, is that the ATC does produce less distortion - the DB1i's have a little mid/bass distortion - this is due to the transmission line system. Because of teh way it works, there's a panel very near to the back of the drive unit. This isnt really an issue in other PMC's as they have more cabinet volume to play with. If you're listening at lowish volumes, you'll find the PMC's sweeter and a much more lively, in comparison to the SCM11, which will come into their own at mid to higher volumes, sounding slightly duller in comparison to the PMC's at lower volumes.
My money would be on the SCM11's, but I wouldn't be able to ignore the ProAc Studio 100's and the KEF XQ20's, both with their own set of strong points.
Having said all that, the SCM11 should really be compared to the TB2i. I know there's a price difference, but these two are more comparable in physical size, and driver size. This would be a closer call, and, as always, one of preference, which will also be affected by the user's amplification.
FrankHarveyHiFi:
plastic penguin:Discuss the pros and cons of both, please.Without getting into the usual room/music/system/compatibility thing, and the fact that there's no single speaker that will suit everyone, here's what I think.
Between the two mentioned, it's a little one sided. The ATC has size going for it - not only internal cabinet volume, but also a sligtly larger driver. This helps the 11's shift more air, along with the fact that the ATC's use a longer throw bass driver. Aldo, with their sealed cabinet, their bass gives a much smoother response compared to the transmission line of the DB1i's, which is going to be sensitive of room boundaries. One thing I have noticed in demonstrations, is that the ATC does produce less distortion - the DB1i's have a little mid/bass distortion - this is due to the transmission line system. Because of teh way it works, there's a panel very near to the back of the drive unit. This isnt really an issue in other PMC's as they have more cabinet volume to play with. If you're listening at lowish volumes, you'll find the PMC's sweeter and a much more lively, in comparison to the SCM11, which will come into their own at mid to higher volumes, sounding slightly duller in comparison to the PMC's at lower volumes.
My money would be on the SCM11's, but I wouldn't be able to ignore the ProAc Studio 100's and the KEF XQ20's, both with their own set of strong points.
Having said all that, the SCM11 should really be compared to the TB2i. I know there's a price difference, but these two are more comparable in physical size, and driver size. This would be a closer call, and, as always, one of preference, which will also be affected by the user's amplification.
Thanks for your opinion, David. As you know I have the RS6's, and in many areas, they are brilliant for the money. However, sometimes they can be a little heavy handed - great with film tracks.
I know what'll be my next amp, Leema Pulse. Heard it a few weeks ago and it ticks all the right boxes. Fabulous. However, the RS6's in a fairly compact room + Leema may prove too much in bass terms. So I'm just canvassing opinion.
plastic penguin:Discuss the pros and cons of both, please.Without getting into the usual room/music/system/compatibility thing, and the fact that there's no single speaker that will suit everyone, here's what I think.
Between the two mentioned, it's a little one sided. The ATC has size going for it - not only internal cabinet volume, but also a sligtly larger driver. This helps the 11's shift more air, along with the fact that the ATC's use a longer throw bass driver. Aldo, with their sealed cabinet, their bass gives a much smoother response compared to the transmission line of the DB1i's, which is going to be sensitive of room boundaries. One thing I have noticed in demonstrations, is that the ATC does produce less distortion - the DB1i's have a little mid/bass distortion - this is due to the transmission line system. Because of teh way it works, there's a panel very near to the back of the drive unit. This isnt really an issue in other PMC's as they have more cabinet volume to play with. If you're listening at lowish volumes, you'll find the PMC's sweeter and a much more lively, in comparison to the SCM11, which will come into their own at mid to higher volumes, sounding slightly duller in comparison to the PMC's at lower volumes.
My money would be on the SCM11's, but I wouldn't be able to ignore the ProAc Studio 100's and the KEF XQ20's, both with their own set of strong points.
Having said all that, the SCM11 should really be compared to the TB2i. I know there's a price difference, but these two are more comparable in physical size, and driver size. This would be a closer call, and, as always, one of preference, which will also be affected by the user's amplification.
Thanks for your opinion, David. As you know I have the RS6's, and in many areas, they are brilliant for the money. However, sometimes they can be a little heavy handed - great with film tracks.
I know what'll be my next amp, Leema Pulse. Heard it a few weeks ago and it ticks all the right boxes. Fabulous. However, the RS6's in a fairly compact room + Leema may prove too much in bass terms. So I'm just canvassing opinion.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Heard the £3.5k Leema Tucana a short while back - sounded good, but was equalled by the Naim 152x/155x pre/power, so might be worth comparing to the equivalent to the Pulse - the Nait XS. Just based on what I heard.
FrankHarveyHiFi:Heard the £3.5k Leema Tucana a short while back - sounded good, but was equalled by the Naim 152x/155x pre/power, so might be worth comparing to the equivalent to the Pulse - the Nait XS. Just based on what I heard.
Interesting thought! The problem I have is when I tested the Nait 5i it doesn't marry well with MA or Arcam, whereas the Leema is a little more forgiving. (I'm a poor soul who doesn't have the finances to upgrade the whole system in one go
.
Interesting thought! The problem I have is when I tested the Nait 5i it doesn't marry well with MA or Arcam, whereas the Leema is a little more forgiving. (I'm a poor soul who doesn't have the finances to upgrade the whole system in one go
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
tenerifediver
Well-known member
Hi Chaps!
While we are kinda on the subject of RS6's (sort of), can anyone guide me on whether they are a good buy now? I live in Tenerife so it is impossible to audition them!!
I have CA740C player, Myryad Z140 amp, DNM Reson ic's, CA DVD89, Chord Rumour cable (NOT bi-wired) into AE Aegis Three's. It is the latter that sounds....muffled now. Not as informative as I once thought they were.
So, as RS6's are pretty cheap now, even with shipping......
Or am I going to be bassed-out by them????
Aarghh!!!!!!!!!!!! Decisions!!!!!
Thanks all!
Tenerifediver with the sun always shining...
While we are kinda on the subject of RS6's (sort of), can anyone guide me on whether they are a good buy now? I live in Tenerife so it is impossible to audition them!!
I have CA740C player, Myryad Z140 amp, DNM Reson ic's, CA DVD89, Chord Rumour cable (NOT bi-wired) into AE Aegis Three's. It is the latter that sounds....muffled now. Not as informative as I once thought they were.
So, as RS6's are pretty cheap now, even with shipping......
Or am I going to be bassed-out by them????
Aarghh!!!!!!!!!!!! Decisions!!!!!
Thanks all!
Tenerifediver with the sun always shining...
probably depends on the size of your room and how much space you can give them.
never heard them with c.a. kit, so hopefully someone else can help you there.
never heard them with c.a. kit, so hopefully someone else can help you there.
tenerifediver:
Hi Chaps!
While we are kinda on the subject of RS6's (sort of), can anyone guide me on whether they are a good buy now? I live in Tenerife so it is impossible to audition them!!
I have CA740C player, Myryad Z140 amp, DNM Reson ic's, CA DVD89, Chord Rumour cable (NOT bi-wired) into AE Aegis Three's. It is the latter that sounds....muffled now. Not as informative as I once thought they were.
So, as RS6's are pretty cheap now, even with shipping......
Or am I going to be bassed-out by them????
Aarghh!!!!!!!!!!!! Decisions!!!!!
Thanks all!
Tenerifediver with the sun always shining...
Craig is spot-on - also bare in mind another crucial area: room acoustics. Like Craig I've not heard CA gear with RS6's, but from personal experience, I've tested Cyrus amplifier and it sounded fine. That's because my living room, albeit compact, has carpets, soft furnishings, and this tends to shave any residual hard edges from the treble and bass. With the right acoustics you have the potential to achieve sonics that gives a lie to professional opinion.
Hi Chaps!
While we are kinda on the subject of RS6's (sort of), can anyone guide me on whether they are a good buy now? I live in Tenerife so it is impossible to audition them!!
I have CA740C player, Myryad Z140 amp, DNM Reson ic's, CA DVD89, Chord Rumour cable (NOT bi-wired) into AE Aegis Three's. It is the latter that sounds....muffled now. Not as informative as I once thought they were.
So, as RS6's are pretty cheap now, even with shipping......
Or am I going to be bassed-out by them????
Aarghh!!!!!!!!!!!! Decisions!!!!!
Thanks all!
Tenerifediver with the sun always shining...
Craig is spot-on - also bare in mind another crucial area: room acoustics. Like Craig I've not heard CA gear with RS6's, but from personal experience, I've tested Cyrus amplifier and it sounded fine. That's because my living room, albeit compact, has carpets, soft furnishings, and this tends to shave any residual hard edges from the treble and bass. With the right acoustics you have the potential to achieve sonics that gives a lie to professional opinion.
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