Argon TT4 out, Thorens TD403DD in (?) Please, help!

[freddyonderstal]

I have already posted a few messages here about my Argon Audio TT4 mk2.
I am simply not entirely satisfied with this turntable, which is actually quite pricey. The first one had a crackle in the cue lever, the new unit has a couple of small chips out of the wood... Just not nice, and the second one seems to vary in rotation speed every now and then.

I plan to return it and in the meantime walked into another Hi-Fi store, where my eye fell on the Thorens TD 403 DD. In real life, I think it is a beautiful player with a nice retro look.

The salesperson indicated that direct drive is simply perfect and that I shouldn't experience any disadvantages. But that is said by the salesperson who, of course, wants to sell me the player.

What are your opinions? Also when comparing the two players. Will I be better off with this Thorens as well?
Is there anything negative about Direct Drive? Why I ask is I want to know why the TD1500 (more expensive) is belt driven and this 403 is Direct Drive...

I would appreciate your opinion when you put both players side by side.

At the moment, I have a set of floor-standing speakers with a built-in amplifier at home, the Argon Audio Fenris A55. They aren't bad speakers in themselves, but they aren't top quality for 800 euros either. I will probably replace them eventually, but for now, my wife and I are happy with them. We don't have a very large living room, and with these speakers, it saves space compared to a separate amplifier.

 

[daytona600]

Argon & Thorens do not make turntables , they are both made in the same chinese factory along dozens of others makes
of turntables , Rice cookers , Garden furniture ,& Buttplugs

DD direct drive technics over 5,000,000 made & most are still working
Remove from box / switch on / play records / leave to your grandkids

Technics , Project & Rega are all you will ever need for £1500
If you want classic wood Technics SL1500CS + wooden plinth

 

[Shrek]

Cant go wrong with Technics and so reliable and consistent .

 

[Shrek]

Direct-drive turntable - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Technics invented DD TTs

 

[daytona600]

Panasonic/Technics started production of electric motors in 1932 for appliances and electronics
Total production is several billion units
SP10 launched in 1969 1st DD turntable for radio stations in production for 57years

Virtually all records ever made cut on Neuman cutting lathes fitted with DD technics

 

[abacus]

This site may help Thorens

Bill

 

[daytona600]

Which Thorens
1883–1998
The company originally produced 1883 music boxes then in late 1880s , Thorens expanded into cylinder phonographs
1950-1990s produced legendary turntables

1957 TD124 The Broadcast Legend
A heavy, high-precision transcription turntable used by broadcast studios and serious audiophiles.
1965 TD 150
Suspended three-spring suspended sub-chassis design, later Copied by Linn Sondek LP12.
TD 160 (1972)
The Audiophile Classic
Thorens Reference (1979)
( Most are worth small fortunes now )

2000s Buy in a a chinese TT & stick a Thorens Label on it

 

[Al ears]

Which Thorens
1883–1998
The company originally produced 1883 music boxes then in late 1880s , Thorens expanded into cylinder phonographs
1950-1990s produced legendary turntables

1957 TD124 The Broadcast Legend
A heavy, high-precision transcription turntable used by broadcast studios and serious audiophiles.
1965 TD 150
Suspended three-spring suspended sub-chassis design, later Copied by Linn Sondek LP12.
TD 160 (1972)
The Audiophile Classic
Thorens Reference (1979)
( Most are worth small fortunes now )

2000s Buy in a a chinese TT & stick a Thorens Label on it

View attachment 11184

Yes, although the Thorens company was re-established in Germany in 2018 I seet they now state "designed in Germany" and clearly avoid stating where manufactured.
i wouldn't turn down their new Reference turntable though, even if it was made in China..... 🙂

 

[camcroft]

Yes, although the Thorens company was re-established in Germany in 2018 I seet they now state "designed in Germany" and clearly avoid stating where manufactured.
i wouldn't turn down their new Reference turntable though, even if it was made in China..... 🙂

They are no different than many other companies that have their stuff made in China.

 

[daytona600]

"designed in Germany" = made in China
"Made in Germany" = made in germany

i wouldn't turn down their new Reference turntable though, even if it was made in China..
New Reference is made in germany. Made by a 3rd party

 

[Al ears]

"designed in Germany" = made in China
"Made in Germany" = made in germany

i wouldn't turn down their new Reference turntable though, even if it was made in China..
New Reference is made in germany. Made by a 3rd party

Could be made in Taiwan who cares??
Now "designed in Germany" made in England might be something to talk about ....

 

[nopiano]

I would appreciate your opinion when you put both players side by side.

Unfortunately I’ve not had the pleasure, but you can find myriad articles about the relative merits of belt and direct drive. They’re different ways to achieve the same result, to rotate the turntable reliably.

Tbh, if you don’t have strong feelings either way, just choose the one you like the look of. You’ll surely be happier than the one you’re already trying a second time?

 

[Integralista]

I have already posted a few messages here about my Argon Audio TT4 mk2.
I am simply not entirely satisfied with this turntable, which is actually quite pricey. The first one had a crackle in the cue lever, the new unit has a couple of small chips out of the wood... Just not nice, and the second one seems to vary in rotation speed every now and then.

I plan to return it and in the meantime walked into another Hi-Fi store, where my eye fell on the Thorens TD 403 DD. In real life, I think it is a beautiful player with a nice retro look.

The salesperson indicated that direct drive is simply perfect and that I shouldn't experience any disadvantages. But that is said by the salesperson who, of course, wants to sell me the player.

What are your opinions? Also when comparing the two players. Will I be better off with this Thorens as well?
Is there anything negative about Direct Drive? Why I ask is I want to know why the TD1500 (more expensive) is belt driven and this 403 is Direct Drive...

I would appreciate your opinion when you put both players side by side.

At the moment, I have a set of floor-standing speakers with a built-in amplifier at home, the Argon Audio Fenris A55. They aren't bad speakers in themselves, but they aren't top quality for 800 euros either. I will probably replace them eventually, but for now, my wife and I are happy with them. We don't have a very large living room, and with these speakers, it saves space compared to a separate amplifier.

View attachment 11179

Hi, I have no experience with Argon Audio. On the other side Thorens today is after rebranding under new owner based in Germany and is in very good hands. They are very active, comming with new models ebery year even with phono stages. Thorens is for sure oldest manufacturer of real HiFi turntables. Technics is inventor of DD but I think Thorens has today most know how here. Regarding model 403 DD, it is middle class model with Thorens typical tonarm (very good) and also this turntable is very good looking. for me. Technics is normaly better in bass, has more slam is more analytic. Thorens is more musical, better in midrange. Very good info about this model, pls. see here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=138999&start=12

 

[Shrek]

Im definitely on the market for a new deck my LP120 is good for transferring vinyl to CD for the car.Technics for me what one i don't know yet.

 

[record_spot]

I've zero issues with stuff being made in China. As long as the terms of manufacture and quality control requirements are set out in the contract of work, then I'm good with that.

As it happens, I have a "Made in Germany" TD160 in a modded plinth with Rega arm. which is great deck until you walk across the floor. Having had it for several years, I swapped it out for the Cambridge Alva ST. Designed in the UK and built in China. Good solid build, a hefty die-cast top-plate and a deep MDF plinth. It's a rock solid build and delivers excellent sound quality. I imagine it'll last at least as long as my also-made-in-China Cambridge 752BD which is in its 12th year with me and hasn't missed a beat yet. Still going strong.

I really do tire of the anti-China whinging that goes on. I come on this thread and see a re-enactment of the same kind of tripe that goes on at the Hoffman forum.

Yeah, @daytona600 the old classic brands and marques would've gone under at the drop of a hat years ago. And then companies like Henley and IAG came along and wouldn't you know, kept some of those names going. IAG has speaker legend Peter Comeau at its helm. You might not like that they're based in China, but they are and Mission and Audiolab and Wharfedale are turning out some pretty impressive gear.

Or we can look back 40-odd years at some of the stuff that wasn't being made in China, but made in the UK, or Japan, or Europe. It wasn't all glorious kit - far from it. You could buy some absolute crap back then because, rest assured, there was plenty of it being made.

 

[abacus]

I've zero issues with stuff being made in China. As long as the terms of manufacture and quality control requirements are set out in the contract of work, then I'm good with that.

As it happens, I have a "Made in Germany" TD160 in a modded plinth with Rega arm. which is great deck until you walk across the floor. Having had it for several years, I swapped it out for the Cambridge Alva ST. Designed in the UK and built in China. Good solid build, a hefty die-cast top-plate and a deep MDF plinth. It's a rock solid build and delivers excellent sound quality. I imagine it'll last at least as long as my also-made-in-China Cambridge 752BD which is in its 12th year with me and hasn't missed a beat yet. Still going strong.

I really do tire of the anti-China whinging that goes on. I come on this thread and see a re-enactment of the same kind of tripe that goes on at the Hoffman forum.

Yeah, @daytona600 the old classic brands and marques would've gone under at the drop of a hat years ago. And then companies like Henley and IAG came along and wouldn't you know, kept some of those names going. IAG has speaker legend Peter Comeau at its helm. You might not like that they're based in China, but they are and Mission and Audiolab and Wharfedale are turning out some pretty impressive gear.

Or we can look back 40-odd years at some of the stuff that wasn't being made in China, but made in the UK, or Japan, or Europe. It wasn't all glorious kit - far from it. You could buy some absolute crap back then because, rest assured, there was plenty of it being made.

If you had problems with the TD160 as you walked along the floor then there was something wrong with it as it has a suspended sub chassis to prevent things like that happening, my guess is that it was modified extremely poorly, and that was the cause of the problem. (You cant just go swapping things around unless you are very experienced)

Bill

 

[matthewpianist]

I still haven't been able to work out what the position is with the 'affordable' end of Thorens turntables these days. I suspect they are perfectly solid, and I'd certainly opt for one over an Argon, but I wouldn't want to stick my neck on the line far enough to make a recommendation to another potential buyer. If you're interested in the advantages of direct drive, Technics are the masters and are established as such. TEAC also make some good DD turntables (I know from experience). If you also look at belt drive, Project and Rega are dependable choices. The current Dual range looks solid as well, but similar to Thorens, the brand as undergone several changes of ownership.

As for all the anti 'made in China' rhetoric, I would ignore it. It makes me laugh when people sit slagging all sorts of things off when they're typing on iPhones that were made in China, for example, and using all manner of things in their every day lives that were made there. We've just changed a 10 year-old BMW 1-Series (113k miles) for a 3 year-old MG HS, and although it has a different range of strengths and weaknesses, it's a perfectly good car with some advantages over competing vehicles. We certainly couldn't afford an equivalently sized BMW, and we need the room at this point in time. Some people slag them off, but then find themselves experiencing all manner of problems with their wildly expensive Range Rovers and the like. Nothing is perfect, and there are reasons for buying or avoiding most things.

 

[record_spot]

If you had problems with the TD160 as you walked along the floor then there was something wrong with it as it has a suspended sub chassis to prevent things like that happening, my guess is that it was modified extremely poorly, and that was the cause of the problem. (You cant just go swapping things around unless you are very experienced)

Bill

I didn't do any swapping or modding. It's a sprung sub-chassis of the bouncy kind and I'm hardly the first to report similar. Plenty of other users have invested in wall shelving to get round the problem.