arcam a19 :( alternatives?

[Hayche]

Hi folks

OK so i went out on a limb and bought a arcam a19 based on WHFs reviews and i must say i am very disapointed,i am new to hifi and now i realise what they mean when they say laid back!.The drums have no energy and the bass has no drive,200 hz sounds like 400 hz,its ike there is a HP filter rolled off at 200 hzon it,i believe this amp is more for classical music,not for me as i love drums and driving bass!

I did think it could be my audiolab mdac source with foobar asio4all but its the same bypassed with my sony walkman straight into the amp,the mdac sounds fine with my sony earbuds!

I do know my wharfdale 122s (go down to 45 hz)are capable of what i want because they had lots of 50-200 hz clout with my denon m39 but just not the seperation and soundstage,the soustage is fantastic with the arcam but for me it is just losing that energy.

Could anybody recommend a amp for me in the same £600 - £700 budget,From what i have been reading the naim nait 5i sounds more to my taste,also thinking about listening to the marantz pearl lite and the roksan k2,altho nobody seems to stock the marantz and naim to listen!

Oh i have also learnt you should listen before you buy haha

H

 

[plastic penguin]

Oh dear...
How long have you had the Arcam?

WHFIS&V do state on the REVIEW (read carefully) that the A19: "Its strengths might not be immediately apparent."

If you're not prepared to give it a couple of weeks then go and find yourself a Naim and Roksan dealer and have a listen.

 

[p_m_brown]

I have heard most of the recent Arcam amps and must say, that the A19 is particularly strong. Maybe you are experiencing better grip over your speakers rather than bass boom.

Arcam is known for being smooth but given you source is an MDAC, should be a great partnership. Are you able to take the am in to the store to test it.

 

[p_m_brown]

Oh, and do check the speakers are wired correctly - out of phase can dramatically reduce perceived bass response

 

[CnoEvil]

Bear in mind that the sound you are getting is a combination of amp + speakers, and how their characteristics mix. The Arcam is a great choice for the money, but that doesn't mean you will like the match with every set of speakers.

Before changing the amp, would you consider trying it with different speakers. For a cleaner livelier sound, you might consider brands like Usher, Tannoy, Focal, Neat, Kef R Series and Triangle.

I take it you have the Wharfedales on decent stands (prefereably filled) of the correct height (tweeters at ear level when seated) and positioned correctly (close enough for bass reinforcement) with the right toe-in. If you have a suspended wooden floor, you may need some Granite under the stands.......Paying attention to all these things can transform the sound.

 

[plastic penguin]

All good points but considering he was asking about a Rega Brio-R a week ago, the amp is no more than a few days old, hence why I posted the response I did...

 

[CnoEvil]

All good points but considering he was asking about a Rega Brio-R a week ago, the amp is no more than a few days old, hence why I posted the response I did...

It was very sensible advice, but if the basics aren't correct (and I don't know that they aren't), the system will never live up to its potential.

I wish I had a pound for every time this sort of problem could be traced back to suboptimal setup / room acoustics.

The Arcam and Creek are the amps to beat at this price imo.

 

[Ben K.]

I think you need to listen to a few different combinations of speaker and amps to try and find the sort of presentation you like. All the reviews in the world won't tell you what you will like best unfortunately. If you can't demo the makes you have read might be good for you just try and demo whatever makes you can and pick from them. At least that way you will know what you are getting before parting with the cash.

I enjoy reading what hifi reviews and agree with some and not with others but that will be the same for everyone as we're all different including the review team. My hifi comprises of two 4 star and one 3 star component and I would give it 5 stars as a system.

 

[plastic penguin]

All good points but considering he was asking about a Rega Brio-R a week ago, the amp is no more than a few days old, hence why I posted the response I did...

It was very sensible advice, but if the basics aren't correct (and I don't know that they aren't), the system will never live up to its potential.

I wish I had a pound for every time this sort of problem could be traced back to suboptimal setup / room acoustics.

The Arcam and Creek are the amps to beat at this price imo.

Despairing! can't believe anyone could actually purchase without listening/comparing, and that'll eradicate/tweak the basics before money is handed over.

Agree totally about Arcam and Creek being the benchmarks at that price.

 

[Crocodile]

Assuming the speakers haven't moved, the radical change you describe sounds like something else may be amiss. As previously suggested, check & double-check your speaker cables. If the phasing is definitely correct then try a session of just listening to the music rather than the sound. By which I mean not trying to analyze or compare with the Denon but just try to enjoy the music. It could be a case of the amp needing to run in, although I have my own doubts about that, or that your ears just need to adjust to a more HiFi sound than the Denon could provide.

 

[Hayche]

I have had the arcam for 4 days, I would hope the sound would change with a run in but I find that hard to believe. The speakers are setup on a solid oak sideboard at either side of the tv,not great i know! I will get stands in the future when my little girl is old enough not to poke them.

I cannot change the speakers for a while as they are a birthday present, I did love the sound of them with the denon it just produced louder bass,even at lower volumes, everything is subtle with the arcam.

From what I have read thus far the nad,rotel and roksan amps could be more for me. I think I need something more aggressive and aloof. Not as clinical

I will take a listen later and just try and enjoy the music, I'm also go an hook the denon back up later to listen again.

I am sorry for not taking advice off my other threads as I never knew I got a reply,email notifications are not on!

H

 

[plastic penguin]

I have had the arcam for 4 days, I would hope the sound would change with a run in but I find that hard to believe. The speakers are setup on a solid oak sideboard at either side of the tv,not great i know! I will get stands in the future when my little girl is old enough not to poke them. .

From what I have read thus far the nad,rotel and roksan amps could be more for me. I think I need something more aggressive and aloof. Not as clinical

I will take a listen later and just try and enjoy the music, I'm also go an hook the denon back up later to listen again.

I am sorry for not taking advice off my other threads as I never knew I got a reply,email notifications are not on!

H

In your original post you said Naim looked to be ideal. You'll certainly get more sonic aggression from the Naim - but Arcam clinical? :doh:

First (a week ago) you mention Rega and Roksan, now you're saying Naim, Nad and Rotel...

All the amps you've mentioned are terrific but all have their own quirks. It's about which "quirk" takes your fancy... you won't this until you audition!

 

[BigH]

Best amp. I heard at that price was the Creek 50A, for rock the Roksan Kandy 2 is worth trying. Pearl lite are scarce now.

 

[Hayche]

Thanks for the help guys

I have now realised it is down to my room acoustics, if I stand up and slightly to the right the bass and all the clout is there, the bass was that prominent with the denon that it was there in my seating position but overbearing when stood up. I am gonna keep the arcam as the soundstage and separation is superb! Need to sort my room out!

H

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks for the help guys I have now realised it is down to my room acoustics, if I stand up and slightly to the right the bass and all the clout is there, the bass was that prominent with the denon that it was there in my seating position but overbearing when stood up. I am gonna keep the arcam as the soundstage and separation is superb! Need to sort my room out! H

To get good results, you need to treat the disease and not the symptoms.......good job.......what you have discovered will save you a fortune.

For a start, try isolating the speakers from the cabinet with £8 Granite Worktop Savers from Argos and some Blu-Tak.

 

[Hayche]

I will Deffo try that thanks

 

[cse]

Despairing! can't believe anyone could actually purchase without listening/comparing, and that'll eradicate/tweak the basics before money is handed over.

Agree totally about Arcam and Creek being the benchmarks at that price.

Not sure that I totally agree. I've always found listening to stuff at a dealership to be an overated, inexact science. Even when you've spent hours (as I have ) comparing multiple components/system set-ups and finally decide upon a component, convinced at that point that you have made the correct/informed decision for youself/system, you then take the component home, plug it in and are then intstantly underwhelmed. Over time, you then find out, whether or not you have made a mistake. If you have, the informed wisdom is that you need to start all over again, only this time listening even more carefully. Actually, I now believe it doesn't really matter what you choose, after all they all HiFi and ought (within reason) to work perfectly well and be suitably compatible. Generally, I feel, it is best to purchase all of your HiFi in one go (ie amp,source,speakers) and keep it for a considerable amount of time (ie when it breaks) before changing anything and don't (most importantly of all) waste time and money upgrading anything.

 

[matthewpiano]

I agree with much of cse's post. I too find that auditioning in a listening room at a hi-fi shop is ultimately of little help. Room acoustics play such a large part in how a system will perform that hearing a set-up in a foreign environment isn't likely to give an accurate idea of how it will sound at home. I do think more dealers should offer home demonstrations, particularly where people are considering speakers or complete systems.

 

[CnoEvil]

Not sure that I totally agree. I've always found listening to stuff at a dealership to be an overated, inexact science. Even when you've spent hours (as I have ) comparing multiple components/system set-ups and finally decide upon a component, convinced at that point that you have made the correct/informed decision for youself/system, you then take the component home, plug it in and are then intstantly underwhelmed. Over time, you then find out, whether or not you have made a mistake. If you have, the informed wisdom is that you need to start all over again, only this time listening even more carefully. Actually, I now believe it doesn't really matter what you choose, after all they all HiFi and ought (within reason) to work perfectly well and be suitably compatible. Generally, I feel, it is best to purchase all of your HiFi in one go (ie amp,source,speakers) and keep it for a considerable amount of time (ie when it breaks) before changing anything and don't (most importantly of all) waste time and money upgrading anything.

IMO. Buying blind any old components that happen to be the first thing you stumble on (that come under the heading of hifi) and then "sucking it up" if it all sounds nasty......is not a great idea.

I'm sorry that your demo experience has left you so disillusioned, but choosing the right list, going to a good dealer and not then not putting pressure on yourself by assessing too many choices in one go, is key. The winner should then be home demoed if possible.

IME. A system that is good for classical music requires even more care when it comes to the choices you make.

 

[JamesMellor]

Yeah thats why you need good dealers , I have spent many hours spinning discs after we already knew which kit I'd buy but , and I've had speakers on loan for 3 month switching every couple of weeks from another dealer , and I was not going to pay of thier mortgage off on the sale , you need to listen and not then buy online

 

[cse]

The winner should then be home demoed if possible.

Obviously, I assume that you are joking!!!

 

[cse]

IME. A system that is good for classical music requires even more care when it comes to the choices you make.

Absolutely. But most of this can gaged from reading good reviews, especially those in Gramophone magazine. You will find that most people who spend a lot of time listening to classical recordings and have a large collection, spend little time thinking or worying about HiFi. Mostly, they bought very good kit that was recomended to them and purchsed in one go.

 

[plastic penguin]

Despairing! can't believe anyone could actually purchase without listening/comparing, and that'll eradicate/tweak the basics before money is handed over.

Agree totally about Arcam and Creek being the benchmarks at that price.

Not sure that I totally agree. I've always found listening to stuff at a dealership to be an overated, inexact science. Even when you've spent hours (as I have ) comparing multiple components/system set-ups and finally decide upon a component, convinced at that point that you have made the correct/informed decision for youself/system, you then take the component home, plug it in and are then intstantly underwhelmed. Over time, you then find out, whether or not you have made a mistake. If you have, the informed wisdom is that you need to start all over again, only this time listening even more carefully. Actually, I now believe it doesn't really matter what you choose, after all they all HiFi and ought (within reason) to work perfectly well and be suitably compatible. Generally, I feel, it is best to purchase all of your HiFi in one go (ie amp,source,speakers) and keep it for a considerable amount of time (ie when it breaks) before changing anything and don't (most importantly of all) waste time and money upgrading anything.

Fully agree that some shops have crummy acoustics, nevertheless, I'd rather compare two or three different components in a iffy room than just buying blind. Even with ropey acostics it'll give you some indication.

The only time I've purchased blind ended in disaster.

 

[CnoEvil]

The winner should then be home demoed if possible.

Obviously, I assume that you are joking!!!

I assume you are not.

 

[chebby]

Actually, I now believe it doesn't really matter what you choose, after all they all HiFi and ought (within reason) to work perfectly well and be suitably compatible. Generally, I feel, it is best to purchase all of your HiFi in one go (ie amp,source,speakers) and keep it for a considerable amount of time (ie when it breaks) before changing anything and don't (most importantly of all) waste time and money upgrading anything.

I like that.

I've not just become disenchanted with shop demos but actually experience discomfiture at the idea of them.

I think this has happened for longer than I realised and has - probably / possibly - been the reason for a couple of unsatisfactory systems in the past.

I now seriously pity someone who plans to 'tour' a number of shops, over a long period, to try and get to hear all of the possible combinations (or partial combinations) of seperates that may / may not work for them. Obviously they aren't me and they might even relish the prospect!

I chose my Marantz all-in-one based on almost every criteria other than having heard it in a shop and it's the best choice I made in many years. (Since 1996 to be exact).

It was such a relief to not really have any other choices at the time (based on functionality, connectivity, size, price and looks).