arcam a19 :( alternatives?

[matt49]

I now seriously pity someone who plans to 'tour' a number of shops, over a long period, to try and get to hear all of the possible combinations (or partial combinations) of seperates that may / may not work for them. Obviously they aren't me and they might even relish the prospect!

I think it would be unfortunate if people were put off doing dealer auditons by what they read here.

People are just different. For my part, I enjoy the whole process (and certainly don't need any pity). And it's not just a matter of relishing the prospect: I find the event itself interesting on several levels. I even quite enjoy talking to the dealers, who are often informative (albeit sometimes in ways they don't intend).

:cheers:

Matt

 

[alchemist 1]

* * * * *........ :read: .......... :?

 

[chebby]

Not sure that I totally agree. I've always found listening to stuff at a dealership to be an overated, inexact science. Even when you've spent hours (as I have ) comparing multiple components/system set-ups and finally decide upon a component, convinced at that point that you have made the correct/informed decision for youself/system, you then take the component home, plug it in and are then intstantly underwhelmed. Over time, you then find out, whether or not you have made a mistake. If you have, the informed wisdom is that you need to start all over again, only this time listening even more carefully. Actually, I now believe it doesn't really matter what you choose, after all they all HiFi and ought (within reason) to work perfectly well and be suitably compatible. Generally, I feel, it is best to purchase all of your HiFi in one go (ie amp,source,speakers) and keep it for a considerable amount of time (ie when it breaks) before changing anything and don't (most importantly of all) waste time and money upgrading anything.

I'm sorry that your demo experience has left you so disillusioned, but choosing the right list, going to a good dealer and not then not putting pressure on yourself by assessing too many choices in one go, is key. The winner should then be home demoed if possible.

Done that. (Listen to and compare a list of stuff in a shop, then try out the 'winning combination' at home.)

The problem was that (at least once) a component, even whole systems, sounded the polar opposite in the shop to how it / they sounded back at home. So any short-list would have been totally skewed to stuff that sounded better in the shop and so would the 'winner'. The only solution would be to listen to every permutation of possible components / systems at home and that is impractical on many levels. (Unless you have an infinitely patient local hi-fi shop and stacks of spare time.)

I may be odd, but I don't want to be the sort of bloke who is spending large chunks of consecutive weekends hanging around hi-fi shops getting my head in a frazz over which combination of - say - four amps, four sources and four sets of speakers is best.

I think that's 64 possible combinations to listen to! (And some people consider four choices of speaker, amp and source to be a pretty restricted choice.)

It gets even worse if every one of the 64 possible systems has to be compared (and not just listened to) and downright insane if some of those combinations are split between two (or more) shops.

 

[plastic penguin]

Not sure that I totally agree. I've always found listening to stuff at a dealership to be an overated, inexact science. Even when you've spent hours (as I have ) comparing multiple components/system set-ups and finally decide upon a component, convinced at that point that you have made the correct/informed decision for youself/system, you then take the component home, plug it in and are then intstantly underwhelmed. Over time, you then find out, whether or not you have made a mistake. If you have, the informed wisdom is that you need to start all over again, only this time listening even more carefully. Actually, I now believe it doesn't really matter what you choose, after all they all HiFi and ought (within reason) to work perfectly well and be suitably compatible. Generally, I feel, it is best to purchase all of your HiFi in one go (ie amp,source,speakers) and keep it for a considerable amount of time (ie when it breaks) before changing anything and don't (most importantly of all) waste time and money upgrading anything.

I'm sorry that your demo experience has left you so disillusioned, but choosing the right list, going to a good dealer and not then not putting pressure on yourself by assessing too many choices in one go, is key. The winner should then be home demoed if possible.

Done that. (Listen to and compare a list of stuff in a shop, then try out the 'winning combination' at home.)

The problem was that (at least once) a component, even whole systems, sounded the polar opposite in the shop to how it / they sounded back at home. So any short-list would have been totally skewed to stuff that sounded better in the shop and so would the 'winner'. The only solution would be to listen to every permutation of possible components / systems at home and that is impractical on many levels. (Unless you have an infinitely patient local hi-fi shop and stacks of spare time.)

I may be odd, but I don't want to be the sort of bloke who is spending large chunks of consecutive weekends hanging around hi-fi shops getting my head in a frazz over which combination of - say - four amps, four sources and four sets of speakers is best.

I think that's 64 possible combinations to listen to! (And some people consider four choices of speaker, amp and source to be a pretty restricted choice.)

It gets even worse if every one of the 64 possible systems has to be compared (and not just listened to) and downright insane if some of those combinations are split between two (or more) shops.

You're certainly not odd, more like in a minority. You won't dem because some systems can sound the polar opposite? That's like saying I won't test drive a car because the roads are different where I live. I'll just buy the Reliant Robin and take a chance. Mmmm.... :?

 

[chebby]

You won't dem because some systems can sound the polar opposite? That's like saying I won't test drive a car because the roads are different where I live. I'll just buy the Reliant Robin and take a chance. Mmmm.... :?

Best if you and I don't talk. (I am 5 minutes away from a ban if I say what I really want to right now without calming down first!)

 

[plastic penguin]

Blimey. :O

 

[tonky]

ok then - some people like to hear equipment in a hifi shop/dealers etc. I have done this on numerous occasions and also had equipment at home to listen to.
I would not go as far as to say any of it sounded a "polar opposite" at home. The experiences in the dealers was more than useful.
I would never buy blind unless you had a facility to return the said item.
You would surely try on a pair of shoes before you bought them?
Speakers on a sideboard? I would think that the OP would be certainly not realising the potential of his system by a long way.
Back to the radiogram! - lol
tonky

 

[cse]

[/quote]

The only time I've purchased blind ended in disaster.

[/quote]

The only time I've bought blind was a total success - Marantz Pearl Lite SACD and of course Panasonic TV (?).

 

[cse]

I would never buy blind unless you had a facility to return the said item. You would surely try on a pair of shoes before you bought them? Speakers on a sideboard? tonky

I've bought many pairs of shoes on the internet without (obviously) trying them on first!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

To the OP I'd recommend the Rotel - 1520.

Its an 'assertive' listen good for uptempo music. if your within the 30day return period its worth considering getting an exchange.

I too agree demos are a waste of time and stumbled across my system which works really well together but may not have got my cash if I had auditioned them with other kit seperately......lol.

Problem is if you audition kit to death its really hard to then confess to being wrong and taking the stuff back to a patient dealer.

 

[CnoEvil]

IME. A system that is good for classical music requires even more care when it comes to the choices you make.

Absolutely. But most of this can gaged from reading good reviews, especially those in Gramophone magazine. You will find that most people who spend a lot of time listening to classical recordings and have a large collection, spend little time thinking or worying about HiFi. Mostly, they bought very good kit that was recomended to them and purchsed in one go.

IME. If you want classical music to be exciting, natural and packet with emotion, you need to be looking at Valve amps from the likes of Icon Audio, Unison Research and Puresound; Hybrid amps from Pathos; or SS amps from Audio Analogue or Electrompaniet.

Speakers from Sonus Faber, Audio Note, Opera and Kef R Series / LS50 would also be my choice.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

IME. A system that is good for classical music requires even more care when it comes to the choices you make.

Absolutely. But most of this can gaged from reading good reviews, especially those in Gramophone magazine. You will find that most people who spend a lot of time listening to classical recordings and have a large collection, spend little time thinking or worying about HiFi. Mostly, they bought very good kit that was recomended to them and purchsed in one go.

IME. If you want classical music to be exciting, natural and packet with emotion, you need to be looking at Valve amps from the likes of Icon Audio, Unison Research and Puresound; Hybrid amps from Pathos; or SS amps from Audio Analogue or Electrompaniet.

Speakers from Sonus Faber, Audio Note, Opera and Kef R Series / LS50 would also be my choice.

mmmm....for classical music I'd actually suggest getting an AV reciever with a load of DSP settings, seriously. If you want a performance with real depth some of the 'Hall settings' are really good for that 'being there' feel.

 

[tonky]

I would have thought a good stereo amp and speakers would give appreciable depth with classical music if it was present on the original recording. My classical recordings do.

tonky

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I would have thought a good stereo amp and speakers would give appreciable depth with classical music if it was present on the original recording. My classical recordings do.

tonky

in my limited experience with classical music the recording method used does not allow for the sort of seperation and soundstaging found in other types of music - its a general almost mono presentation - a performance of a whole as opposed to individual performers within a group .... if you know what I mean?

what the DSP does is expand the sound to mimick an actual concert - works well with old Jazz too and live recordings. Its worth trying if you have the facility.

 

[chebby]

I would have thought a good stereo amp and speakers would give appreciable depth with classical music if it was present on the original recording. My classical recordings do.

tonky

in my limited experience with classical music the recording method used does not allow for the sort of seperation and soundstaging found in other types of music - its a general almost mono presentation - a performance of a whole as opposed to individual performers within a group .... if you know what I mean?

what the DSP does is expand the sound to mimick an actual concert - works well with old Jazz too and live recordings. Its worth trying if you have the facility.

An apposite moment, I hope, to bring these words on the subject by Andrew Everard (until recently, of this parish) ...

http://andreweverard.com/2013/08/22/its-the-soundstage-stupid/

 

[cse]

IME. If you want classical music to be exciting, natural and packet with emotion, you need to be looking at Valve amps from the likes of Icon Audio, Unison Research and Puresound; Hybrid amps from Pathos; or SS amps from Audio Analogue or Electrompaniet.

Speakers from Sonus Faber, Audio Note, Opera and Kef R Series / LS50 would also be my choice.

[/quote]

Quad?, Spendor?, Harbeth?, Arcam?

 

[CnoEvil]

Quad?, Spendor?, Harbeth?, Arcam?

Yes, all the above, especially Quad Valve amps and Electrostatics, Spendor SA1 / STs / Classic range and all Harbeths.

It wasn't my intention to list every possible brand, but give a flavour of which direction I believe is best.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I would have thought a good stereo amp and speakers would give appreciable depth with classical music if it was present on the original recording. My classical recordings do.

tonky

in my limited experience with classical music the recording method used does not allow for the sort of seperation and soundstaging found in other types of music - its a general almost mono presentation - a performance of a whole as opposed to individual performers within a group .... if you know what I mean?

what the DSP does is expand the sound to mimick an actual concert - works well with old Jazz too and live recordings. Its worth trying if you have the facility.

An apposite moment, I hope, to bring these words on the subject by Andrew Everard (until recently, of this parish) ...

http://andreweverard.com/2013/08/22/its-the-soundstage-stupid/

just read the link......

if I compare the Gladiator Soundtrack cd with my Very best of Beethoven the recording methods are different the Gladiator cd is recorded much like a 'modern' record 'everything' engineered in. the VBOB is recorded more generally,,,, so are the other(few) classical albums in my collection.

funnily enough old jazz is recorded very 2 channel which the dsp seems to work very well with when expanding - Lee Morgans 'Sidewinder' cd is a good example, sounds onit via the dsp.

 

[Hayche]

Would speakers on stands placed 2ft and 4ft away from the sideboard be a better idea? One of them being in a corner.
I'm really struggling with this null at the moment.

 

[danrv]

Hi
What height and distance apart do you have your speakers?
Stands would be a good idea if you have room.
I had a problem with matching amp and speakers but it was excessive brightness I was experiencing rather than being laid back with no punch.
A Roksan Kandy K2 amp & matching CD player sorted
it out.
The K2 amp is powerful and versatile and will certainly liven things up.
Are you able to exchange the Arcam?

 

[BigH]

Would speakers on stands placed 2ft and 4ft away from the sideboard be a better idea? One of them being in a corner. I'm really struggling with this null at the moment.

Yes I believe so, have you got something you can put them on to try, like 2 wooden chairs, if you have not got room for stands then you can get some speaker isolation foam that the speakers will sit on, its used in studios sometimes and costs about £30 or there are some very low stands you can put on the sideboard but these cost about £70, see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY-cSuKzu_w

 

[Hayche]

I can exchange for a roksan if I want to put £150 towards. I would probably pay the 15% restocking fee and buy used tho.
I will try on chairs later thanks

 

[CnoEvil]

I wouldn't rush into anything until you get the set up sorted out.

 

[p_m_brown]

Defo get some speaker stands and set up so you are sat in the middle in a triangle of sorts. Once you have your room set up, you'll truly start hearing what that little amp is capable of

 

[iQ Speakers]

Hayche I was in a similar situation a few months following an upgrade. It was only listening to the advise from these guys about speaker stands and really concentrating on speaker positioning that I have... soundstage, seperation and sensational sound.