Apple Express and optical digital output

[Rethep]

Finally! ;-)

I think you underplay how difficult it is to perform these tests. Strictly speaking one needs a way to instantly switch between the two systems playing the same source. All I can say is they are close, and maybe identical. Sadly there is so much BS in hifi land.

This is not in a critical way meant for you ("Leif"), because i appreciate the effort you made, but for all the folks that just assume that all big, expensive things 'of course' are better, and that they hear big differences 'of course'. As my theory says: simple, straight, direct electronics work better.

'Finally' someone who agrees, and lets his ears speak!

 

[Rethep]

@Leif:

Nice to read about the 'Chord Mojo' DAC, sounding very well.

But strange that you are 'pretty sure' that your iPhone DAC is sounding worse. Because you seem to judge it also by its format. it is small, so it seems to sound worse ?!

And how about miniatures like the 'Dragonfly' DAC's!?

 

[Rethep]

One thing to mention also is: sound from a Mac is much better than from a (Windows) PC!

I heard this from professional DJ's!

Maybe someone to mention his own experience, as i don't have a PC for almost 10 years ?

 

[lpv]

aex audio output is as good as anything.. I used mine directly to yamaha hs8 and avi dm5s as pre and dac.. now I use daily its optical out to dm10s.. it can also be used as headphone amp! great device.

 

[lpv]

if I would have 2 aex I could do some testing:

a) aex audio out to dm10s rca inputs

b) aex optical out to dm10s dac

 

[MajorFubar]

One thing to mention also is: sound from a Mac is much better than from a (Windows) PC!

I heard this from professional DJ's!

Maybe someone to mention his own experience, as i don't have a PC for almost 10 years ?

Not sure about the most recent Macs especially the recent Macbook Airs and 12" Macbooks, but certainly the sound from my 2010 Mac Mini wasn't hugely different from the £300 HRT II+ DAC I bought when it was one of the darlings of the external DAC world about five years ago. The small improvement the HRT II+ brought to the table was probably enough to be identified in an A-B comparision if you instantly switched between the two (wouldn't want to bet my salary on it however) but walk in the room with either the Mac Mini or the HRT II+ playing and you couldn't consistently tell which one it was.

Definitely one of my poorer investments, bought unheard on a whim after reading a webfull of reviews filled with superlatives about how it re-wrote the rulebook regarding what could be achieved for £300, then sold four years later via ebay for little over £50 to someone with more sense than money.

 

[daveh75]

One thing to mention also is: sound from a Mac is much better than from a (Windows) PC!

I heard this from professional DJ's!

Maybe someone to mention his own experience, as i don't have a PC for almost 10 years ?

Yeah, that's BS...

What is true (or at least was, not sure if its still the case with W10) is Macs provided bit perfect output out of the box, whereas Windows required some configuration to achieve it (WASAPI/ASIO4ALL etc,)

 

[MajorFubar]

One thing to mention also is: sound from a Mac is much better than from a (Windows) PC!

I heard this from professional DJ's!

Maybe someone to mention his own experience, as i don't have a PC for almost 10 years ?

Yeah, that's BS...

What is true (or at least was, not sure if its still the case with W10) is Macs provided bit perfect output out of the box, whereas Windows required some configuration to achieve it (WASAPI/ASIO4ALL etc,)

What was probably meant is that the completely shite-sounding audio cards in pre-built PC towers and average Windows laptops are comfortably beaten by the audio chips built into Macs. In my experience (of Macs built 2013 and earlier), that's a very fair generalisation. Clearly when all else is equal they're going to sound the same.

 

[daveh75]

One thing to mention also is: sound from a Mac is much better than from a (Windows) PC!

I heard this from professional DJ's!

Maybe someone to mention his own experience, as i don't have a PC for almost 10 years ?

Yeah, that's BS...

What is true (or at least was, not sure if its still the case with W10) is Macs provided bit perfect output out of the box, whereas Windows required some configuration to achieve it (WASAPI/ASIO4ALL etc,)

What was probably meant is that the completely shite-sounding audio cards in pre-built PC towers and average Windows laptops are comfortably beaten by the audio chips built into Macs. In my experience (of Macs built 2013 and earlier), that's a very fair generalisation. Clearly when all else is equal they're going to sound the same.

Which professional DJs aren't going to be using, they'll be connected directly to a DJ controller via USB.

 

[Rethep]

One thing to mention also is: sound from a Mac is much better than from a (Windows) PC!

I heard this from professional DJ's!

Maybe someone to mention his own experience, as i don't have a PC for almost 10 years ?

Not sure about the most recent Macs especially the recent Macbook Airs and 12" Macbooks

I'm only talking about iMac. Mine is from 2015.

 

[nopiano]

One thing to mention also is: sound from a Mac is much better than from a (Windows) PC!

I heard this from professional DJ's!

Maybe someone to mention his own experience, as i don't have a PC for almost 10 years ?

Not sure about the most recent Macs especially the recent Macbook Airs and 12" Macbooks

I'm only talking about iMac. Mine is from 2015.

If it’s anything to judge by, the vast majority of stands at the recent Windsor show who used a computer source used a MacBook of some type or another. No idea if that was because of any sound benefit or just that they look so much nicer.

 

[daveh75]

Audiophiles and Apple fanbois share a lot of traits so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest....

 

[Rethep]

Audiophiles and Apple fanbois share a lot of traits so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest....

"When the girl is nice it does not hurt that she is beautiful too" ;-)

 

[MajorFubar]

Some pieces of hifi you could buy blind and know that they'd make a difference to the sound, good or bad. Speakers for starters. Turntable cartridges for another. Then there's other items where I would only advise buying if you can try them in your own environment and return them if you find the difference they've made is really not worth the price. Expensive DACs and fancy cables are right at the top of that list.

 

[Leif]

@Leif:

Nice to read about the 'Chord Mojo' DAC, sounding very well.

But strange that you are 'pretty sure' that your iPhone DAC is sounding worse. Because you seem to judge it also by its format. it is small, so it seems to sound worse ?!

And how about miniatures like the 'Dragonfly' DAC's!?

I try to judge by sound alone and ignore the format, though of course that's not possible without blind testing. The Dragonfly is limited as it has no external power supply so it might not drive some headphones well. The Mojo has an internal rechargeable battery, so it drives my Sennheiser HD600 with ease. Many consider a DAC to be a commodity item and who am I to argue. The iPhone is constrained by size and price. So I suspect they could not use an off the shelf DAC, or were limited perhaps to lesser ones. Of course this is supposition. My Audeze Sine headphones come with a DAC in the cable, the size of the Dragonfly or smaller, and the sound is wonderful.

 

[Rethep]

An iPhone could contain a quality DAC-chip! Of course the analog circuitry shapes the sound (too). But why should a simple analog circuit with just a few components and short signal-path, sound worse than a bigger one with much more complicated (and expensive) filtering components? To me they 'sound' as 'the emperors (expensive) new clothes'.

A valve-amp also shapes the sound by more focussing on 'stage' than on dynamics. I would not say it is better than other amps, but it just suits me better.