Another Cyrus system upgrade

[rbantges]

It's been a year now since I bought my first ever Cyrus kit and am looking to add something to improve the dynamics of the system. Several times the amplifier has reset after what I assume was it not being able to cope with bursts of increased loudness. My current setup is:

Cyrus 8VS2 (PSX-R connected), CD8SE, DAB8.0, connected to B&W CM7s. I'm using Cyrus interconnects and Atlas Hyper 2.0 speaker cables.

I'd love to try the MONO-X amplifiers, but I simply cannot justify £3K (plus maybe the DAC-XP+). I've been thinking about taking advantage of the Pre XP / Power 8 promotion for £1500, but would I be better off going for the X Power amplifier using my 8VS2 pre-out?

I've got about £1K-£1.5K I could spend, but would like it to make a real difference.

On a slightly different note, it's about time What Hi-Fi? auditioned the B&W CM7 speakers, as IMO I feel these are much better suited to the Cyrus sound than the Spendor A5s and Dynaudio eXcite 32s. I'll even bring my speakers to the What Hi-Fi? office if it helps persuade them!

Rich

 

[d_a_n1979]

Brilliant system you have there

My missus had the Cyrus 8vs2 partnered with the XPower and B&W CM7 speakers along with the 8SE CDP

The XPower did make a world of difference to the soundstage; added extra depth and tautness to the bass and the midrange become more detailed and smoother.

Never got round to adding a PSX-R but I'd say that get the XPower and save yourself some £££

 

[Frank Harvey]

rbantges: I've got about £1K-£1.5K I could spend, but would like it to make a real difference.

With that sort of budget, you're not far off Mono X's! Ex demo and b stock tend to go for around the £2k mark, sometimes a little less, so if you really want them, and we all know you do, hold out for a deal on what you want. They would certainly make your CM7's sing....

 

[rbantges]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

rbantges: I've got about £1K-£1.5K I could spend, but would like it to make a real difference.

With that sort of budget, you're not far off Mono X's! Ex demo and b stock tend to go for around the £2k mark, sometimes a little less, so if you really want them, and we all know you do, hold out for a deal on what you want. They would certainly make your CM7's sing....

Mono X - yes on the waiting list at Moorgate Acoustics for the REPRO / Ex demo, but am concerned that using the 8VS2 pre-amp out won't do them justice. I've also heard some people complaining about the fan noise from the MONO-X (and using non-balanced inputs), and for £2K I'd certainly want something that's perfect.

There don't seem to be many X Power amps out there x-demo, repro or on eBay..

 

[Anonymous]

Regarding pre-amp it really depends on whether you want to head off down the on board DAC route or not. If that's not your bag then you could pick up a second hand Pre vs2 or PreX vs for ~£2-300. Add two aPA7.5 power amplifiers ~£7-800 and you are well within budget.

Personally I would say David's price for two Mono X's is on the conservative side and if you are patient and know where to look you could scoop them up at ~£1500.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I did say 'a little less'

Bear in mind that they are now £3k for a pair, not £2.5, when they used to sell for around £1500 ex demo or b stock.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
I did say 'a little less'

Bear in mind that they are now £3k for a pair, not £2.5, when they used to sell for around £1500 ex demo or b stock.

True. Sorry, to clarify, I was meaning second hand - and I would emphasise being patient in the search.

 

[Messiah]

rbantges:
I've got about £1K-£1.5K I could spend, but would like it to make a real difference.

As an alternative suggestion you could buy some AVI ADM 9.1s with some decent stands for that budget. Sell the amp and power supply and buy a good sub. Any change can go on music.

No fretting about further 'upgrades' either!

 

[SteveR750]

I've listened to the asic 6SE -> 8XPD driving Sendor A5s, then changed one by one to an X Power, then a pair of Mono Xs then using the xtse+ transport, and then using a PSXR on the transport.

The biggest improvements were with the addition of the Mono xs which really added some depth across the whole frequency and opened up the soundstage nicely. The next biggest improvement surprisingly was adding the PSXR to the transport. Very nice sounding indeed, but I think David might be right, by the end I was listening to a £9k system including the speakers. OK, I gess the DAC in the 8XPD was the limiting factor, so the QX version with a better quality DAC would help no doubt; but it's a serious investment for a great but not a truly stunning sound. Certainly not a jaw-dropping moment similar to that I experienced when I heard a Linn / Naim / Linn analogue system back in 1985 for the first time.

 

[Frank Harvey]

To be fair, any digital based system won't impress as much as a system based on an analogue source. Whenever you have music playing in store via a good quality turntable, people notice - play CD's and it's almost like the music doesn't exist to them.

 

[rbantges]

Thanks for the comments.

I'm happy to be patient in the search. I've looked a couple of websites that list second hand /ex-demo repro Cyrus (Moorgate Acoustics and Bartlett's Hifi), and of course keep an eye on eBay and Gumtree - has anyone else any suggestions of where best to look, or are those the best places?

Do I need to worry about getting a balanced input for the Mono X's, will the phono connections from the pre-out on my 8VS2 be ok?

 

[rbantges]

Thanks for your thoughts. So there weren't huge leaps in output by adding the X Power? I'm surprised that a PSX-R added to the CD transport made much of a difference, I think my ears would probably struggle to detect a difference. I've tried my CD8SE with a PSX-R and to be honest I can't tell the difference. I can notice a difference with the PSX-R attached to my 8VS2 though.

I was hoping that a separate X Power amplifier would be a cost effective way of preventing my amplifier from cutting out when pushed to volumes around 50% of maximum. Is this likely do you know?

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Frank Harvey]

The standard phono connections will be fine.

Adding the PSXR to the CD8se does exactly the same thing as if you added it to the CXDTse - it supplied the motor that drives the CD. That shouldn't make a lot of difference you think, but in tests, Cyrus found it made more of a difference than if it supplied the analogue section (which it used to do in the 'olden days').

The X Power will prevent your amp cutting out. The X Power has more current behind it and will drive the CM7's better. I do try and make a point of the older 6vs and 8vs models having problems at high levels with 4ohm speakers whenever possible.

 

[SteveR750]

rbantges:
Thanks for your thoughts. So there weren't huge leaps in output by adding the X Power? I'm surprised that a PSX-R added to the CD transport made much of a difference, I think my ears would probably struggle to detect a difference. I've tried my CD8SE with a PSX-R and to be honest I can't tell the difference. I can notice a difference with the PSX-R attached to my 8VS2 though.

I was hoping that a separate X Power amplifier would be a cost effective way of preventing my amplifier from cutting out when pushed to volumes around 50% of maximum. Is this likely do you know?

Cheers,
Rich

Adding any combination of separate power amps did make a big difference, however there was a significant improvement with the A5s when going from bi-amped to mono block. I was surprised by the PSRX addition to, didn't try it with the 6SE.

But, and a big but, putting the differences into absolute terms, then listening to the 8XPd in my system isn't the answer either, I don't think - there isn't £700+ worth of improvement over the Kandy that's for sure, the differences in my lounge are in the same level as going from cheapo to decent cables, not night and day. I guess this is now entering the world of diminishing returns, and to be honest from what I have heard so far are questionable in terms of VFM. I'm certainly not enjoying the music any more, though there is some pleasure in owning something that you believe to be good, which might be a big influence in many purchases. In truth, I'd rather spend the £700 on some guitar kit if this is all I'm going to get. In fact I'm going to plug the Kandy back in and box the Cyrus back up and enjoy what I have without fretting that I could do better. You can, but at a huge cost and for not that much difference in the big scheme of things.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I assume it was nicely warmed up? Cyrus do take a few hours to come on song.

This goes to prove my point about our preferences. Although there might be one way of doing things correctly, we all prefer something different, so it's a case of hearing things for yourself and seeing how things improve your system.

 

[SteveR750]

Exactly.

And it was as hot a hot thing when I got there, and amp was warmed up nicely too.

 

[Frank Harvey]

It does get a little warm when driving awkward speakers...

 

[Anonymous]

Why don't you try a non-Cyrus separate power amp using the cyrus amps pre outs?. I went down the Cyrus route and ended up with two 8 Powers in mono with PSx-rs, this still wasnt enough to get my speakers singing. I found the cost benefit at this point to be poor, so I sold the powers and got a Cambridge Audio 840 power amp that has 200w for close to a grand. I got a huge improvement over ther 8 Powers with change left over. I also used a subwoofer at the time to bolster the bass, but the new amp was so effective the sub was no longer needed, so giving me more pocket money

 

[SteveR750]

Barry Bear:Why don't you try a non-Cyrus separate power amp using the cyrus amps pre outs?. I went down the Cyrus route and ended up with two 8 Powers in mono with PSx-rs, this still wasnt enough to get my speakers singing. I found the cost benefit at this point to be poor, so I sold the powers and got a Cambridge Audio 840 power amp that has 200w for close to a grand. I got a huge improvement over ther 8 Powers with change left over. I also used a subwoofer at the time to bolster the bass, but the new amp was so effective the sub was no longer needed, so giving me more pocket money

Because I'd probably go pre / power with non cyrus. I liistened to the various stages of the Cyrus amplification and decided its not to my tastes. Supernait next, and will also try bi-amping with a K2 power amp. there's others I'll also try I'm in no rush

 

[Anonymous]

I think Cyrus is really good at making pre amps and I like the detailed sound they make. I got the dac xp off fleebay for close to a grand. Everybody seems to be dumping them because a new version is out which only has a marginal sound improvement. With speaker amplification you need power with finess. Try to get an amp with the highest wattage, the highest S/N and the lowest distortion. Watts is king. ....oh yeh, then go listen

 

[rbantges]

Yeah, I'm coming round to the idea that the MONO-Xs are the only way forward to get the dynamic range I want and to keep my system "looking pretty". Unfortunately I have another half to please, and whilst audio quality isn't high on her list, things looking matched and pretty are.

I'll be keeping my eyes peeled on eBay and Moorgate Acoustics' website, but if anyone has any suggestions of other sources please let me know.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Rich

 

[Anonymous]

Make sure you use the XLR connections with a good quality cable to squeeze every bit of performance out of them.

 

[Anonymous]

sell the PSX-R. Total waste of time connected to the 8VS2 - no difference what so ever (try a blind listening!). Might be worth having a listen to the Xpower though as you suggest.

 

[SteveR750]

Kevin1:sell the PSX-R. Total waste of time connected to the 8VS2 - no difference what so ever (try a blind listening!). Might be worth having a listen to the Xpower though as you suggest.

It made a difference when used with the CD transport...