An experiment in streaming

[DandyCobalt]

With a half-hour to myself (for once) I decided to do a bit of comparison between CD and streaming - since I have several components in my system that can handle the movement of songs from my computer to the hi-fi.

I have been storing my CDs and downloads via itunes to a separate hard drive. I now have about 15,000 songs from 1,500 artists, and they have been ripped as AAC, AIFF, Apple Lossless and also, recently, as wav files (eg the new Paul Simon download that comes with the vinyl.

As I have the Paul Simon latest album in various formats, I thought that I would compare the tracks from this via Apple TV, Cambridge Audio BD751 (via ethernet), and also Alison Krauss via CD, Apple TV and CA 751.

Of the streaming solutions (Apple and the BD751) the Apple was by far the most convenient and easy to use, but it could only play the AIFF version, not the wav). Via the CA751 it took me 8 (yes, eight) full minutes to scroll through the artists until I got to P for Paul. However, it could play the wav file, (but not the aiff version) and this was far better than the aiff version via apple. A much broader, fuller sound - the apple sounded thin and constricted in comparison.

Turning to Alison Krauss - via CD was the best option sonically, then 751 then Apple, - and it took only about fifteen seconds to find the CD in my alphabetical collection on the shelf and start to play.

The optimum solution? - not streaming...yet.

Is there a streaming solution that plays all types of files (or at least wav and apple versions) and has an easy-to-use and quick menu/locating system? (oh, and that doesn't need the tv to be on ?)

I didn't try to compare my vinyl version of the albums - that would have been too cruel

 

[mitch65]

I no longer have a CD player and I do believe that the streamer I use gives me better results than an equivelent stand alone CD player (when using a offboard DAC). The only issue I have is that, at the moment, the streamer does not support gapless playback which is fine for most of what I listen to but........if I want to play, say, Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells II or Music of the Spheres which both have seperate pieces with their own titles the streamer cannot play them seamlessly.

Hopefully this will get resolved in the near future.

Of course I could always play the vinyl versions if they were all available.

 

[Dan Turner]

Is there a streaming solution that plays all types of files (or at least wav and apple versions) and has an easy-to-use and quick menu/locating system? (oh, and that doesn't need the tv to be on ?)

Sonos is the benchmark as far as useability is concerned and it plays pretty much any file - certainly all the ones you've mentioned. You would connect it to your PreXpdQX via coax and then I think you'd find it very competitive. Going in to my Naim SuperNait it's at least the equal of £1000-£1500 CD players.

The ZP90 costs about £280, as long as you have an apple or android device to control it with a free app (or don't mind using a laptop/PC), otherwise the dedicated controller costs about the same again.

The only downside with Sonos is that it doesn't play high-res files

 

[crusaderlord]

I am dabbling in streaming - at the moment just a simple airport express into my MF M1 DAC. It sounds very good, wins stars for convenience in selecting tracks using the itouch. However my CD player sounds better and remains my favourite source just ahead of docking the itouch via the wadia. I tend to like listening to a whole cd in a sitting so i cant see streaming taking over just yet but i can see its functionality - issues with ripping, playback restrictions on some files and just more fiddling about in general prevent it from being the best option for me just now. My Arcam CD is just superb though and i do like have the CD machine, selecting and loading disks.

 

[CnoEvil]

Linn stopped making CD players because their DS players wiped the floor with them. It was pretty easy to hear the difference.

You could bring in your own CD, have the dealer rip it and then compare the two. The DS always came out on top, often beating the CDP in the next range up. You only have to listen to a Linn Sneaky to hear how good it can sound, and it has a built in amp.

This experiment could be done at a Naim dealer, as they still make CDPs (it's very enlightening).

The Olive solution is the VFM one, though IMO not as good as Linn/Naim.

Cno

 

[the record spot]

Is this the Apple TV2 we're talking here? I've no idea why they issued such a limited piece of hardware for the price they're asking. Half the functionality of similarly priced units should've seen this coming out at about £60, not the £100 Apple want. The Apple defenders sing its' praises, but that's the danger of blind faith with an open wallet. Sony's budget DVD players, or their network player wipe the floor with it, as do many others.

As for streaming, well, it's simply easier for me to use the CDP - the best recordings wipe the floor with the vinyl versions (my reference discs are the ones that were mastered by guys like Barry Diament for instance and the soundstage tanks the vinyl which sounds limited in comparison. Love vinyl, but the proof of the pudding, etc...).

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't used a CD player in about three years. My Squeezebox is connected optically to my AVI's and plays pretty much any type of file, up to 24/96. After that it does some type of re-sampling. The ease and convenience of the system is fabulous. I sold a bunch of Cyrus kit to fund this set-up and would never go back to separates.

In another generation, hi-fi will look like this except the SB element will be built into these types of active speakers. "Traditional" hi-fi will be for the types of people like me who buy mechanical watches - a very tiny number of people indeed. But I will never go back to separates.

 

[Anonymous]

Is there a streaming solution that plays all types of files (or at least wav and apple versions) and has an easy-to-use and quick menu/locating system? (oh, and that doesn't need the tv to be on ?)

Sonos is the benchmark as far as useability is concerned and it plays pretty much any file - certainly all the ones you've mentioned. You would connect it to your PreXpdQX via coax and then I think you'd find it very competitive. Going in to my Naim SuperNait it's at least the equal of £1000-£1500 CD players.

The ZP90 costs about £280, as long as you have an apple or android device to control it with a free app (or don't mind using a laptop/PC), otherwise the dedicated controller costs about the same again.

The only downside with Sonos is that it doesn't play high-res files

The Squeezebox Touch plays hi-res and is very easy to use. I have found that the Touch is completely plug-n-play, albeit you do have to do some configuration, i.e. point it at a drive for music files for example. But once you've set your preferences, you can just use it and forget it. I have no idea how Sonos could be easier - and it's way more expensive.

 

[The_Lhc]

Of the streaming solutions (Apple and the BD751) the Apple was by far the most convenient and easy to use, but it could only play the AIFF version, not the wav). Via the CA751 it took me 8 (yes, eight) full minutes to scroll through the artists until I got to P for Paul.

Why didn't you pick something starting with "A" then?

However, it could play the wav file, (but not the aiff version) and this was far better than the aiff version via apple. A much broader, fuller sound - the apple sounded thin and constricted in comparison.

If the sound is so much different I would suggest it's entirely down to the quality of the DAC in each device, the AppleTV is a budget device, the 751 isn't, AIFF and WAV should be identical, they're both uncompressed, afaik, so you really haven't comnpared the two different file types at all, just the hardware. Plug the Apple into a DAC equivalent to what the 751 has built in and you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Is there a streaming solution that plays all types of files (or at least wav and apple versions) and has an easy-to-use and quick menu/locating system? (oh, and that doesn't need the tv to be on ?)

Sonos, as has already been said, very good user interface.

I didn't try to compare my vinyl version of the albums - that would have been too cruel

I did once, I bought an MMW box set which had vinyl and CD versions of the same tracks, the main difference with the vinyl was the depth, the drums actually sounded like they were coming from behind the other instruments, whereas the cd/streamed version sounded much more one-dimensional, however, that could just have easily been a difference in mastering and dynamic range (I've no idea if MMW's mastering engineers engage in the loudness war for example) than the actual equipment in use (my TT isn't expensive, an old Pro-ject Debut II with a 2M Red cartridge).

 

[Anonymous]

Vinyl is something I'll never go back to. I have a turntable but it's been gathering dust for many years. The comments I read across the web regarding vinyl's apparent superiority are baffling. To get a good sound out of vinyl appears to involve quite a number of variables - the turntable, arm, cartridge, the geometry of the set up, the weight pressing on the record, the record's state of wear, flatness etc. etc. Then there's the quality of the engineering of the music placed on to the disc. And if the record has been cut from a digital master tape..... and all the snap, crackle and pop.....

I bought a CD recently where the producer, Gus Dudgeon, said he was pleased to have re-released the album on CD, as the original was constrained by the limitations of vinyl. Only on CD could it sound as originally intended.

 

[the record spot]

To get a good sound out of vinyl appears to involve quite a number of variables - the turntable, arm, cartridge, the geometry of the set up, the weight pressing on the record, the record's state of wear, flatness etc. etc.

Don't forget the eye of newt...!

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I did once, I bought an MMW box set which had vinyl and CD versions of the same tracks, the main difference with the vinyl was the depth, the drums actually sounded like they were coming from behind the other instruments, whereas the cd/streamed version sounded much more one-dimensional, however, that could just have easily been a difference in mastering and dynamic range

not it wasn't. it was the quality of your CDP (no offence). good CDPs easily retrieve dimentional depth of recording.

than the actual equipment in use (my TT isn't expensive, an old Pro-ject Debut II with a 2M Red cartridge).

in my experience inexpensive TTs easily beat budget CDPs, so no wonder it sounds better than your CDP. I've not yet heard expensive TT so I don't know how they would compare vs. expensive CDPs.

 

[manicm]

Not necessarily true, my first 2nd hand budget Technics CDP had the measure of our Technics 'Quartz' Direct Drive turntable which was excellent.

There were a few good budget CDPs around, not the Sonys though.

You are right about a lot being dependent on the mastering though - and, apart from some tape-like background noise, I find earlier-pressed CDs to be great, like the 1st pressing of Led Zep's IV, and modern first-pass CD recordings like Prefab Sprouts's Jordan - these were really brilliant sounding, and I think CD brought out the best in them.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Not necessarily true, my first 2nd hand budget Technics CDP had the measure of our Technics 'Quartz' Direct Drive turntable which was excellent.

and what exactly measurements tell you? by todays standards even the best turntables measure poor against even most budget CDPs.and yet, many will never say a CD sounds like music.

the same story with CDPs themselves. budget ones don't have any reason to be ashamed when numbers are compared with ones that are considered hi-end. good sound isn't burried in spec numbers but in qualities of analog output stages and that is so far not quantifiable.

 

[The_Lhc]

Not necessarily true, my first 2nd hand budget Technics CDP had the measure of our Technics 'Quartz' Direct Drive turntable which was excellent.

and what exactly measurements tell you? by todays standards even the best turntables measure poor against even most budget CDPs.and yet, many will never say a CD sounds like music.
the same story with CDPs themselves.

No, no, "to have the measure of" means to be better than, not that it's been measured.

 

[the record spot]

...like the 1st pressing of Led Zep's IV, and modern first-pass CD recordings like Prefab Sprouts's Jordan - these were really brilliant sounding, and I think CD brought out the best in them.

Ah, well, CD didn't, but a chap called Barry Diament did. He was the mastering engineer at Atlantic and he did Zep I - III. I have them all, including some of the other Zep first editions, but it's his touch that delivered the magic. He's covered loads of them and I've picked up a good few.

Apart from Barry, you've got guys like Joe Gastwirt, Zal Schreiber, Vic Anesini at Sony, Stephen Marcussen and the guys whose names I don't have to hand but did the recent 10CC and Procol Harum remasters. All of them make the music sound like it should. There's plenty of others too and I can point anyone who doubts the capabilities of digital to any number of discs that blow that notion out the water.