Amplify signal between preamp amd amp

[dakchi]

Hi,

I have a Pro-ject Debut Carbon USB turntable which has an integrated preamp. I noticed that the sound is not loud enough when I play a record. I usually have to exceed 12 in the amp to have a good level of volume, which is not recommended. I was wondering whether there is a way to further amplify the signal between the turntable and the amp ( with a kind of power amp or anything else). I guess that adding a preamp will not have any impact

Many thanks

 

[camcroft]

Have you tried it using all of the different inputs to see if one of them gives better results than the rest. I initialy bought the same turntable and then sold it on and bought the standard Carbon turntable and a seperate phono amp

 

[dakchi]

Have you tried it using all of the different inputs to see if one of them gives better results than the rest. I initialy bought the same turntable and then sold it on and bought the standard Carbon turntable and a seperate phono amp

Yes I tried all all inputs. I get the same result. I bought this turntable because it was a very good deal and because it all already everything built-in, so no additional investments, but I think that the built-in preamp is not of a good quality. It does not amplify sufficiently the signal. If I compare the volume to other sources, I would say that it is 30% weaker. Did you sell your turntable for the same reason? who is your new one performing compared to the USB version?

 

[Vladimir]

Who says that using the volume dial beyond 12 o'clock is not recommended?

 

[dakchi]

Who says that using the volume dial beyond 12 o'clock is not recommended?

It's not good for the speakers because the amplifier will start doing clipping

 

[camcroft]

Yes I sold the turntable for the lack of volume. The new turtable is a lot better my amp/reciever has got its own phono stage but I use a seperate one that sounds much better I had a Rega one which also has a USB port but I have recently sold that on and bought an American phono stage which sounds much better than the Rega namely the Schiit Mani which is connected to a different input not the amps own phono input

 

[Vladimir]

Who says that using the volume dial beyond 12 o'clock is not recommended?

It's not good for the speakers because the amplifier will start doing clipping

Absolute nonsense. You have nothing to worry about, your amplifier isn't clipping unless you push your speakers really loud. Position on the volume dial doesn't affect this.
Also using volume pot between 9 and 3 o'clock is where potentiometers have least channel imbalance and sound their best.
Nothing wrong turning up a source volume up if it's quieter than other sources.

As for upgrading the phono preamp in your TT, my advice is to upgrade to a better TT and separate preamp when your vinyl collection grows bigger.

 

[friendly_ghost]

It's competely normal if you need to up your volume changing sources, especially a turntable compared to for instance a cd-player. No worries, just enjoy!

 

[Al ears]

Who says that using the volume dial beyond 12 o'clock is not recommended?

It's not good for the speakers because the amplifier will start doing clipping

Absolute nonsense. You have nothing to worry about, your amplifier isn't clipping unless you push your speakers really loud. Position on the volume dial doesn't affect this. Also using volume pot between 9 and 3 o'clock is where potentiometers have least channel imbalance and sound their best. Nothing wrong turning up a source volume up if it's quieter than other sources.

As for upgrading the phono preamp in your TT, my advice is to upgrade to a better TT and separate preamp when your vinyl collection grows bigger.

+1

Some ill-informed misconceptions here I feel. However, he is correct that the inbuilt phono preamp in this, and any other turntables at this price point, are pretty dire.

 

[Vladimir]

Who says that using the volume dial beyond 12 o'clock is not recommended?

It's not good for the speakers because the amplifier will start doing clipping

Absolute nonsense. You have nothing to worry about, your amplifier isn't clipping unless you push your speakers really loud. Position on the volume dial doesn't affect this. Also using volume pot between 9 and 3 o'clock is where potentiometers have least channel imbalance and sound their best. Nothing wrong turning up a source volume up if it's quieter than other sources.

As for upgrading the phono preamp in your TT, my advice is to upgrade to a better TT and separate preamp when your vinyl collection grows bigger.

+1

Some ill-informed misconceptions here I feel. However, he is correct that the inbuilt phono preamp in this, and any other turntables at this price point, are pretty dire.

Feel free to point out the misconceptions so we can all learn together. Dakchi is a currious mind.

 

[Al ears]

Who says that using the volume dial beyond 12 o'clock is not recommended?

It's not good for the speakers because the amplifier will start doing clipping

Absolute nonsense. You have nothing to worry about, your amplifier isn't clipping unless you push your speakers really loud. Position on the volume dial doesn't affect this. Also using volume pot between 9 and 3 o'clock is where potentiometers have least channel imbalance and sound their best. Nothing wrong turning up a source volume up if it's quieter than other sources.

As for upgrading the phono preamp in your TT, my advice is to upgrade to a better TT and separate preamp when your vinyl collection grows bigger.

+1

Some ill-informed misconceptions here I feel. However, he is correct that the inbuilt phono preamp in this, and any other turntables at this price point, are pretty dire.

Feel free to point out the misconceptions so we can all learn together. Dakchi is a currious mind.

I was merely referring to having to turn the volume control up a bit between different input sources and his concerns regarding possible damage to speakers. Clearly he has some heard some BS somewhere.

 

[dakchi]

Would something like a tube stage do the job? for example https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00UAA5JF6/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AOL7GLIHHNW18

 

[Canguino Purlat]

It's a buffer: no voltage gain.

I don't understand why you say a preamp won't have any impact, the function of a preamp is to raise volume by adding voltage gain (the function of a power amp is to add current gain, to drive speakers or headphones. But this function not always imply volume raise).

Maybe the integrated phono preamp is not up to task. But you don't have to buy another tt: yours may have a direct output. Buy another phono preamp, with more output. You say you bought a tt with an integrated phono to not making any more investments, but you are ready to spend money in a buffer. A decent solid state phono preamp cost less than the buffer.

 

[Vladimir]

If the OP has less than 150 vinyl records, he should invest money in more records and keep using the begginer TT he has. As the collection grows and his knowledge on the hardware, he will then upgrade to something proper.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Dakchi, this is normal. Do you have any other sources connected to your amp, eg: CD Player?

 

[dakchi]

It's a buffer: no voltage gain.

I don't understand why you say a preamp won't have any impact, the function of a preamp is to raise volume by adding voltage gain (the function of a power amp is to add current gain, to drive speakers or headphones. But this function not always imply volume raise).

Maybe the integrated phono preamp is not up to task. But you don't have to buy another tt: yours may have a direct output. Buy another phono preamp, with more output. You say you bought a tt with an integrated phono to not making any more investments, but you are ready to spend money in a buffer. A decent solid state phono preamp cost less than the buffer.

Do you mean that if I add another preamp in the chain, it will amplify the signal? I'm not sure it will. Can we have 2 preamps? (the built-in preamp + another preamp between the TT and the amp)

 

[friendly_ghost]

Of course another preamp will amplify the signal. This is its purpose: amplify signals. Possibly you will have too much gain then, and won't be able to pass control from 9 o'clock. A buffer doesn't amplify voltage signal, it amplifies current. Useful to drive long cables without losing treble, or to drive headphones or speakers in power amps. But it won't give you more volume, as the ad clearly states. Maybe you will perceive some increase due to a better high end reproduction, but it will be subjective (that in the case this better treble reproduction really happens and it's audible). You better stay with your actual equipment, as long as you don't perceive distortion or clipping.

Would this work? I thought besides amplifying the signal, a preamp also corrects the signal for the implemented RIAA-curve?

 

[Canguino Purlat]

Of course another preamp will amplify the signal. This is its purpose: amplify signals. Possibly you will have too much gain then, and won't be able to put control past 9 o'clock. A buffer doesn't amplify voltage signal, it amplifies current. Useful to drive long cables without losing treble, or to drive headphones or speakers in power amps. But it won't give you more volume, as the ad clearly states. Maybe you will perceive some increase due to a better high end reproduction, but it will be subjective (that in the case this better treble reproduction really happens and it's audible). You better stay with your actual equipment, as long as you don't perceive distortion or clipping.

 

[Vladimir]

OP already has a preamp, inside his integrated amp. He is simply not utilizing it properly due to ignorance. Buying another preamp will metamorphosize ignorance into sheer stupidity.

 

[Canguino Purlat]

And that's the reason why it's better for him to stay with its actual equipment, and accept that there's nothing wrong with the volume past 12 as long as there's no distortion. My responses where oriented to show the absurdity, difficulty or expensiveness of other options. Sometimes it's better to stop worrying about this kind of things and just enjoy music.

 

[brownz]

Another option is to take the onboard phono amp out of the equation and just terminate to a dumb RCA junction box which are available as spares. Then utilise an external / better phono stage. I've done this on quite a few of these Debut Carbon Phono USBs for customers wanting to use better Phono stages. Not plugging us in any way but they are https://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/RCA-Junction-Box-p1245 other juntion boxes may well be available, but may not fit ! But, yes, wholeheartedly agree with turning up the volume to acheive a required listening volume !!

 

[Canguino Purlat]

Another option is to take the onboard phono amp out of the equation and just terminate to a dumb RCA junction box which are available as spares. Then utilise an external / better phono stage. I've done this on quite a few of these Debut Carbon Phono USBs for customers wanting to use better Phono stages. Not plugging us in any way but they are https://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/RCA-Junction-Box-p1245 other juntion boxes may well be available, but may not fit ! But, yes, wholeheartedly agree with turning up the volume to acheive a required listening volume !!

Well, that's the function of the volume knob: turn up the volume. If there's no distortion, there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Vladimir]

Another option is to take the onboard phono amp out of the equation and just terminate to a dumb RCA junction box which are available as spares. Then utilise an external / better phono stage. I've done this on quite a few of these Debut Carbon Phono USBs for customers wanting to use better Phono stages. Not plugging us in any way but they are https://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/RCA-Junction-Box-p1245 other juntion boxes may well be available, but may not fit ! But, yes, wholeheartedly agree with turning up the volume to acheive a required listening volume !!

That would null its already low resale value. I'd keep it as is untill my vinyl collection grows and I'm sure it's not just a fad for me. Then invest in a quality TT that is beyond a glossy chopping board, rubber band and a cassette deck motor.

 

[dakchi]

Crystal clear. Thank you guys for th advises

 

[thescarletpronster]

He is simply not utilizing it properly due to ignorance. Buying another preamp will metamorphosize ignorance into sheer stupidity.

I'm sure the advice was helpful, but was the rudeness necessary?