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Amplifier to match or bring back to life MA Silver 8

Beppep

New member
Nov 3, 2014
4
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It has been a while I havent post in this forum, now I am back asking for your advices.

I have a pair of MA Silver 8 driven by an allround amplifier Yamaha RN500 and I am quite disappointed about the sound. When I bought the speaker years ago I auditioned them paired with NAIM Superuniti2 and the sound was really good despite the source was streaming music. Brought them home and I started my agony. Speakers sounds decent with classical music, blues, Rap etc, but when it comes to rock or new wave it is really a disaster, mid range not exisisting, drums and guitar not dynamic and looks like sound comes from a paper case. As I think this sound is not related to the speakers (i hope) I need to get rid of this ridiculous amplifier and buy something decent. Now, I have purchased as well a Technics SL1200 mk5 as I have a vinyl collection to listen and again the preamp of this amplifier doesnt sound right. I have decided to buy a new amplifier, budget can be up to 2000, not need phono imp as I am planning to buy a separate pre phono, I am open as well to buy a separate streamer with DAC but need to be a good one (I listen vinyl and strem music on tidal and spotify). Yamaha AS2100 it is a good choice? I really like the old retro style.

Please let me know a good match for these speakers. As I am not leaving anymore in London I will struggle to find a dealer around so I really need some advices.

Thank you

Beppe
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
219
45
10,820
The rn500 was never intended at design stage to drive your speakers. Not the yamahas fault actually. But i dont have enough experience to suggest anything too. The more expereinced forum members will be here soon to help you :)
 
Apr 28, 2016
1
0
0
Beppep said:
It has been a while I havent post in this forum, now I am back asking for your advices.

I have a pair of MA Silver 8 driven by an allround amplifier Yamaha RN500 and I am quite disappointed about the sound. When I bought the speaker years ago I auditioned them paired with NAIM Superuniti2 and the sound was really good despite the source was streaming music. Brought them home and I started my agony. Speakers sounds decent with classical music, blues, Rap etc, but when it comes to rock or new wave it is really a disaster, mid range not exisisting, drums and guitar not dynamic and looks like sound comes from a paper case. As I think this sound is not related to the speakers (i hope) I need to get rid of this ridiculous amplifier and buy something decent. Now, I have purchased as well a Technics SL1200 mk5 as I have a vinyl collection to listen and again the preamp of this amplifier doesnt sound right. I have decided to buy a new amplifier, budget can be up to 2000, not need phono imp as I am planning to buy a separate pre phono, I am open as well to buy a separate streamer with DAC but need to be a good one (I listen vinyl and strem music on tidal and spotify). Yamaha AS2100 it is a good choice? I really like the old retro style.

Please let me know a good match for these speakers. As I am not leaving anymore in London I will struggle to find a dealer around so I really need some advices.

Thank you

Beppe
If you liked your speakers with the NAIM Superuniti2 why not try NAIM amplifier?
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
894
431
5,270
Yamaha A-S2100 is a cracking amp. Blacksabbath25 has one and loves it to bits. It would be a massive step up.

However I'm not sure what you describe is to do with an amplifier. It looks like you're not satisfied with your speakers. And upgrade of an amplifier would not solve your problem.
 

jmjones

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2009
49
12
18,545
An alternative amp. If the problem persists, speaker change is likely. The best advice I can give anyone is to audition as best you can. Find a good dealer and get a “sale or return” arrangement.

Where are you living Beppe?
 

Al ears

Moderator
jmjones said:
An alternative amp. If the problem persists, speaker change is likely. The best advice I can give anyone is to audition as best you can. Find a good dealer and get a “sale or return” arrangement.

Where are you living Beppe?
I'd agree. The amp is possibly not the problem but the speakers themselves. Get the right speakers for your room then it is often quite easy to drive them with a number of amps.
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
617
268
19,270
Hi. First of all, try to audition before buying, especially in your own home. At least if you buy new and have dealers nearby.

Secondly, I disagree that you need a change of speakers (UNLESS the MAs are really unsuited for your room - if it's a decently sized room and you can keep them some distance away from back wall and corners, you're fine). The Silver 8s are out of your Yamaha's league, I'm affraid, and no Yamaha amp will come even close to the sound of the Naim you first heard. IMO, Yamaha amps are only good with classical and jazz, as I find they lack the drive and grunt required for rock/prog etc (a trait I found common between their entry-level AS500 and their AS3000).

If you want streaming, I strongly suggest checking the Uniti 2 you heard back then, or, if you can find a deal on one, even the Superuniti, which is, of course, better (there is no Superuniti2, so I'm assuming you heard the Uniti 2). If you don't really care about streaming, a used Supernait 1 or Supernait 2 or Naim Nac 202 + Nap 200 pre-power combo would fit the bill just nicely, and you can sell these for no loss if you don't like them.

Other brands that I would check for your MAs is Creek Evo 100, Rogue Audio, Roksan K3 and Hegel stuff.
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
894
431
5,270
Whereas I appreciate the amp isn't sufficient to drive these to their full potential or perhaps even properly. OP wants a speaker to play Rock music. With MA Silver range whatever amplification you use will never do Rock or any heavy music convincingly. It's just not their forte.
 

Beppep

New member
Nov 3, 2014
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0
Thank you guys for your prompt reply, always been pleased with the users of whathifi and how you invest time in advices.

I live in Switzerland now, between France and Germany..left London years ago so I cannot take the tube and reach the first Sevenoaks or Richer Sounds shop :)

I truly believe that Monitor Audio Silver 8s are not the main problem, they should be able to play rock or progressve rock music without any lack in mid frequency (do you agree?). it is a three way speakers, with dedicate 4'' for mid frequencies, is the driver too small to play guitar or drums?

The main issue (I believe) is the amplifier, or is not powerfull enough to drive the speakers or somehow has some filters or crossover that drammaticaly cut the mid frequencies. RN500 totally lack of engagement and dynamic (when there are too many instruments playing, amplifier get confused, cannot distinguish them, so it removes something and mix the sound at is own discreption). With rock music it is a disaster drums or guitar are not present and distortions are not reproduced well.
If i play David Bowie, well I indeed understand that he is not here anymore, Yamaha makes the voice come from very far away :) If i listen something from Tempations for instance Masterpiece, well amplifier play the tracks decently.

Before buying the Monior Audio I owned the Silver 2, the Dali Zensor 7 and another 2.5'' and i all returned them because was the same issue thinking that were the speakers. I truly believe at this point that is the amplifier the issue.

I auditioned as I said the MA8 with Naim, the reason I havent bought was different, I really dont like the 90s design as VHS player and I didnt have any control of bass of treble in front. The sounds was very good indeed, the DAC was able to reproduce well streming from Spotify, the price was exagerate btw. If the only way to have good amplifier is to buy something that look like chinese, glossy black as Rocksan or Cambridge Audio, Cirrus then I will take this direction. If once bought the amplifier the sound is still not good then I will change the speakers, but I truly believe MA should be able to play almost everything.
 

scene

Moderator
Sep 25, 2008
783
179
19,070
I've got older MAs (silver 8i - 2001 vintage) as fronts, but also a MA RS-LCR and RXFX rears...

I agree with the others who say your Yamaha is underpowered for the MA. I also agree that Arcam is a good match for MA - however, despite loving Arcam and having an Arcam amp for my Hi Fi set up, they're expensive and the software side is a bit flakey.

I can recommend Marantz for MA as well - I'm using a SR7009 from a few years back for my MA set up and it sounds great - and I listen to an awful lot of Rock, of all types and my speakers sound great. I had a too small Yamaha previously and my speakers sounded dreadful, flat and mulchy sound - was thinking they weren't up to it until I got the new amp and now they're sound great again :)
 

knaithrover

Moderator
Nov 24, 2013
196
77
18,670
scene said:
I've got older MAs (silver 8i - 2001 vintage) as fronts, but also a MA RS-LCR and RXFX rears...

I agree with the others who say your Yamaha is underpowered for the MA. I also agree that Arcam is a good match for MA - however, despite loving Arcam and having an Arcam amp for my Hi Fi set up, they're expensive and the software side is a bit flakey.

I can recommend Marantz for MA as well - I'm using a SR7009 from a few years back for my MA set up and it sounds great - and I listen to an awful lot of Rock, of all types and my speakers sound great. I had a too small Yamaha previously and my speakers sounded dreadful, flat and mulchy sound - was thinking they weren't up to it until I got the new amp and now they're sound great again :)
Wish I still had my A85....
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
Sorry I do not agree with your statement about the Yamaha being only good for jazz , classic music because I am a heavy metal and classic rock fan who brought what I have to sound good with that kind of genre of music .

i would say that all amplifiers would play any kind of genre of music well as long as the amplifier had the power and control it would be more to do with the speakers then anything I found you need large speaker cabinets to push lots of air with big drivers that have good bass extension and a amplifier that grips that bass properly to get heavy metal or classic rock to sound any good and then most of that genre has been recorded not as well as other genres of music .

but the Yamaha does a good job with any kind of music but thought the monitor audio speakers where a bit polite I might be wrong as the last time I’ve owned monitor audio floor standing speakers was the golds which was in the 1990s so not heard the more modern versions of monitor audio speakers .
 

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
97
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Do you have any dealers in Swistz. where you can try out some amps. such as Roksan Kandy, Yahama, Naim, Marantz etc. I think the amp. could be part of the problem maybe they do need more power and control. I would try some other speakers as well though to get an idea.
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
617
268
19,270
@blacksabbath what I said about the Yammies was prefaced by an "IMO" - I know a lot of people like their presentation. The way the OP describes the sound echoes my opinion on all their amps I heard (500 with B&W and MA Bronze BX2, 700 with Triangle floorstanders, 3000 with Sonus Faber Olympics) - they have a nice spacious, airy sound, but have a complete lack of drive. Again, for my tastes. Marantz seems to have a bit in common, but their sound is better organized and better in the "flow" department. One thing, though, I think the Yamaha amps do look beautiful indeed. And that Roksan K2 is ugly af (not the K3, though)

I also think that Cyrus amplification will exacerbate the issues OP has, but DO audition if you can.

BTW, I just checked, and with that budget (or just a little bit over) you can find mint condition Superuniti, which is a very, very good and balanced sounding piece of gear, with great functionality.
 

Beppep

New member
Nov 3, 2014
4
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0
well if i can reach that level this guy from Russia got from the Silver 300 (the new ones) I will be really happy. well i have the Silver8s but shouldnt be so different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-011LUwd2wA

he drives them with Musatoff PA-20, source [/b]Yamaha NP-S2000, > DAC TDA1541А

If i play with my yamaha rn500 is just get a total confusion and distortion

Musatoff PA-20[/b]

Rated output power 120 W / 4 Ohm and 75 W / 8 Ohm
Maximum output power at the limit of the limit (depends on the voltage in the outlet) 150 W / 4 Ohm and 94 W / 8 Ohm
Level of nonlinear distortion at rated power (0 dB) 0.005%
The level of nonlinear distortions at a power of -10 dB is 0.001%
The level of intermodulation distortions at half power (-3 dB) 0.002%
The level of intermodulation products of any order in the entire audio range on test 10 with a frequency signal with frequencies from 20 Hz to 20 kHz (emulation of the transient signal) at a total power of 0 dB from 85 dB or more (at about 105 dB, where the hearing is most sensitive)
No delay after exceeding the maximum level (clipping)
The output impedance at low and medium frequencies is approximately 0.002-0.003 ohms
Coefficient of damping 1500-2000
The gain bandwidth is 0 Hz to 240 kHz
Frequency HPF for working with sources with a constant component at the output of 1.7 Hz
The amplifier band is limited from above by two passive filters: at the input of the UM and at the output of the UM. Without them, the amplifier band is more than 2 MHz
Amplification of the UM 30 (29.5 dB)
Amplification of the preamplifier from -127 dB to +18 dB
Step of gain control of the preamplifier 1 dB
Balance adjustment + -8 dB in 1 dB steps
Input impedance of 10 kOhm preamplifier
Input resistance of UM 20 kOhm
 

amormusic

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2016
202
105
10,970
Although different MA’s (mine are RS6’s) they match beautifully with my Arcam A29 so I can +1 the Arcam/MA combo as being a good one (for me at least).

Previous setup was Cyrus - this was a terrible combo with the MA’s IMO and why I got rid of it.

Cheers,
 

Beppep

New member
Nov 3, 2014
4
0
0
hi Amormusic,

which type of musi do you listen? does the Arcam produce a dynamic sound with MA? Can you play rock and bass are well driven? whats about soundstage?

Thank you,

Regards,

Beppe
 

amormusic

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2016
202
105
10,970
I listen to all kids of music: reggae/d&b/trance/acoustic/orchestral etc. - prob easier to say what I don’t listen to!

Bass notes are strong and crisp, when they should be. Soundstage is excellent and the music is enveloping when I’m sat in my listening position. My room is around 5m x 6m.

Rock music sounds fine to my ears.

My experience of MA/Arcam is that it produces good clean bass (not the case with my last Cyrus in combo, which was flat and very bass light) and I do like this combo.

Will I change the MAs? Yes, i intend to get PMCs later this year. But the combination is fine for me and goes well together imo. I will probably hang onto the Arcam for a while though as I do really like it.

As others have said before I strongly urge you to do some demos to be sure your ears are happy if at all pos.
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
617
268
19,270
Arcam pairs well indeed with MA, but I don't know about the silver range. Arcam have a full sound and they sound grand, but to some it's too polite (not that it's not detailed, because it is)
 

jimmy1

New member
Nov 5, 2013
17
0
0
replace the amp, £1200 speakers that are not good at rock music? i think it mus tbe the amp
 

jimmy1

New member
Nov 5, 2013
17
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0
No i'm saying the speakers should be able to play any genre of music, the amp just seems underpowered and its presentation is laid back (only going on the review on this site), maybe borrow an amp from a friend first before spending more cash
 

paulkebab

New member
Dec 26, 2014
66
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0
of the matter is in the opening statement - 'got them home and the agony started'. The room changed from the audition so where do we point the finger? Personally I would borrow another amp just to prove/disprove the possibility that the speakers may not be completely happy in the OP's environment.
 

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