Amplifier help needed

[Jorenzo]

That's a great idea hadn't thought of that will definitely give it a go and see if it helps

 

[rainsoothe]

ok, then you're using the Rega phono mini a2d USB phono stage i think. I'm no expert with TTs btw. So compatibility-wise, it shouldn't be an issue, although I don't think this phono stage is much of an upgrade to the one inbuilt on the Marantz.

One suggestion: try pluging your RP1 directly into the RCA sockets marked "Phono" on the back of the PM6500 and see if it makes any difference and describe it if it does. Also, I hope you're not pluging the Rega phono preamp in the phono RCAs on the Marantz I just mentioned.

Couple more questions: what is your room size and do you require party levels for your music's volume?

 

[Jorenzo]

Tried the marantz phono stage and the rega is definitely better, it's all connected correctly.

The room size is approximately 18 feet by 20 feet, I like moderately loud music but I guess some might call it loud.

lindsayt suggested that there could be a vibration issue due to turntable positioning and I think that may well be something worth investigating , so I've ordered some isolation pads online and expect them in the next few days, if it works it will be a cheap and easy fix so fingers crossed.

Any further thoughts you have would be very much appreciated, everyone here has been so helpful and I'm so glad to have found this resource.

Thanks again guys.

 

[davedotco]

Tried the marantz phono stage and the rega is definitely better, it's all connected correctly.

The room size is approximately 18 feet by 20 feet, I like moderately loud music but I guess some might call it loud.

lindsayt suggested that there could be a vibration issue due to turntable positioning and I think that may well be something worth investigating , so I've ordered some isolation pads online and expect them in the next few days, if it works it will be a cheap and easy fix so fingers crossed.

Any further thoughts you have would be very much appreciated, everyone here has been so helpful and I'm so glad to have found this resource.

Thanks again guys.

Can you let us know how and on what the turntable and speakers are positioned? This will help a lot.

 

[friendly_ghost]

Firstly apologies to both Rainsoothe and Hi-FiOutlaw for the earlier mixup.

When using CDs my expectation level is lower, I've played the same Brian Eno on both sources and the vinyl definitely has more to offer in terms of both subtlety and warmth.

The problem is when I turn the volume up to a reasonable level ie a half to two thirds on the amp, it seems as if the amp can't seem to handle the amount of input and loses all the subtlety and warmth it once had.

With cd at the same volume it seems consistent to lower volumes.

Also I'd like to thank everyone who has taken the time to reply to me, every thought is appreciated and considered

This is really loud and I don't go that high up on mine. One possibility is that you're just playing too loud for your amp and that your speakers just can't cope.

 

[Jorenzo]

The rega is sitting on a glass surface on a media centre table approximately 12 inches high, the speakers are on stands just behind the table.

The floor is laminated wood on a concrete floor.

 

[Jorenzo]

The problems I have are only on vinyl, the cd player is fine at the same volume, the speakers seem to have plenty of headroom.

Distortion isn't the issue for me it's more like the higher quality that the rega offers seems to trail off at higher volume.

As to high volume - yes I do like to turn it up a bit not all the time.

Many thanks for taking the trouble to respond.

 

[davedotco]

The rega is sitting on a glass surface on a media centre table approximately 12 inches high, the speakers are on stands just behind the table.

The floor is laminated wood on a concrete floor.

Hi Jorenzo, it's taken me a while for me to get back to you, but here goes.

I have grouped my thoughts into three sections, so here goes.

Support/positioning. All record players are, to a degree, microphonic and the rega players are knone to be problematic in that area. If the player is close to and right infront of the speakers, this could be an issue, try moving the player further from or behind the speakers if you can.

The support has a tendency to transmit soundwaves through its structure to the player, the heavier the supporting unit is, the worse the proplem. Ideally Rega players should be wall mounted on a simple light shelf. There are commercial designs available but two simple wall brackets ans the smallest possible (chipboard) shelf will do fine. Do not mount the shelf rigitly and do not put anthing else on the same shelf.

Rega player. Good record players rely on quality engineering, there is a limit to how much good engineering you get at the price. Furthermore you are using a Rega cartridge, they can sound really 'dark' in some systems, you may want to consider something sharper and more focused, not my area of expertese but something by Ortofon or Nagoaka might help.

Expectation. There is a tremendous amount of hype surrounding vinyl playback at the moment, are you simply expecting too much? The RP1 is very much an entry level product and performance is quite modest, are you simply hearing the player for what it is and not impressed? I often see people waxing lyrically about there vinyl playback systems, most of which I would not give houseroom. We all have different levels of expectation.

 

[Jorenzo]

That was a very well considered reply and I am very grateful for the time and effort you have given me.

I think you and lindsayt are both right about the microphonic effect taking place with the rega.

I ordered some sound isolation hemispheres which arrived today, used a fairly thick wooden chopping board as a temporary mount for the rega, and also put them on the phono preamp.

All I can say is what a difference, the sound is much better focused, and quite frankly I cant believe the difference they have made.

i will continue to experiment with the setup and location over the weekend when I have a bit more time as you have suggested, just one question though could you elaborate on what you mean about the shelf not being fixed rigidly.

Again thank you you have both been of great help to me , and it is very much appreciated

 

[davedotco]

That was a very well considered reply and I am very grateful for the time and effort you have given me.

I think you and lindsayt are both right about the microphonic effect taking place with the rega.

I ordered some sound isolation hemispheres which arrived today, used a fairly thick wooden chopping board as a temporary mount for the rega, and also put them on the phono preamp.

All I can say is what a difference, the sound is much better focused, and quite frankly I cant believe the difference they have made.

i will continue to experiment with the setup and location over the weekend when I have a bit more time as you have suggested, just one question though could you elaborate on what you mean about the shelf not being fixed rigidly.

Again thank you you have both been of great help to me , and it is very much appreciated

Hi. If you look at a purpose made turntable wall shelf, you will find that the metal frame is rigidly monted to the wall but that the board on which the player actually is separate and loose, usually just sitting on spikes of some sort.

In a diy situation, you can emulate this by simply fitting two shelf brackets or spurs, rigidly to the wall in the normal manner, then simply placing the shelf, ideally as small and light as possible, on the brackets. Take time to make sure the shelf is level and does not rock but resist the temptation to screw the shelf to the brackets to make the structure more rigid, this will 'couple' the player to the structure of the room and make the sound worse.

Whilst you are experimenting I suggest that you try a spiked platform under your Rega, this is simple enough to make, a simple chipboard shelf the same size as the Rega base and three spikes, (2 front, 1 rear) point down onto the glass top.

I always found this approach the most effective (other than wall mounting) but every system is different, you have to try it for yourself.

 

[Jorenzo]

Thanks for your quick reply, I've got the idea now about how to do the wall mounted shelf, your other idea about the spike mounted board sounds like an interesting option also.

Your advice and help has definitely been a bit of an eye opener for me as the idea of some kind of micro phonic effect was the last thing I would have thought of as an issue, always great to learn something new.

I guess it's out with the drill etc this weekend, thanks again I will definitely be trying out your suggestions.

 

[Al ears]

That was a very well considered reply and I am very grateful for the time and effort you have given me.

I think you and lindsayt are both right about the microphonic effect taking place with the rega.

I ordered some sound isolation hemispheres which arrived today, used a fairly thick wooden chopping board as a temporary mount for the rega, and also put them on the phono preamp.

All I can say is what a difference, the sound is much better focused, and quite frankly I cant believe the difference they have made.

i will continue to experiment with the setup and location over the weekend when I have a bit more time as you have suggested, just one question though could you elaborate on what you mean about the shelf not being fixed rigidly.

Again thank you you have both been of great help to me , and it is very much appreciated

Hi. If you look at a purpose made turntable wall shelf, you will find that the metal frame is rigidly monted to the wall but that the board on which the player actually is separate and loose, usually just sitting on spikes of some sort.

In a diy situation, you can emulate this by simply fitting two shelf brackets or spurs, rigidly to the wall in the normal manner, then simply placing the shelf, ideally as small and light as possible, on the brackets. Take time to make sure the shelf is level and does not rock but resist the temptation to screw the shelf to the brackets to make the structure more rigid, this will 'couple' the player to the structure of the room and make the sound worse.

Whilst you are experimenting I suggest that you try a spiked platform under your Rega, this is simple enough to make, a simple chipboard shelf the same size as the Rega base and three spikes, (2 front, 1 rear) point down onto the glass top.

I always found this approach the most effective (other than wall mounting) but every system is different, you have to try it for yourself.

I understand your suggestions but think when it comes to wall-mounting the 'coupling' bit matters little.

By mounting on a wall you are removing the player from 'footfall' problems and floorboard movement an is the ideal way to isolate any deck be it suspended chassis or not.

The idea that anything the turntable does is going to travel into the wall and effect other parts of your system non-existant.

Or did I get your meaning all wrong??

 

[davedotco]

That was a very well considered reply and I am very grateful for the time and effort you have given me.

I think you and lindsayt are both right about the microphonic effect taking place with the rega.

I ordered some sound isolation hemispheres which arrived today, used a fairly thick wooden chopping board as a temporary mount for the rega, and also put them on the phono preamp.

All I can say is what a difference, the sound is much better focused, and quite frankly I cant believe the difference they have made.

i will continue to experiment with the setup and location over the weekend when I have a bit more time as you have suggested, just one question though could you elaborate on what you mean about the shelf not being fixed rigidly.

Again thank you you have both been of great help to me , and it is very much appreciated

Hi. If you look at a purpose made turntable wall shelf, you will find that the metal frame is rigidly monted to the wall but that the board on which the player actually is separate and loose, usually just sitting on spikes of some sort.

In a diy situation, you can emulate this by simply fitting two shelf brackets or spurs, rigidly to the wall in the normal manner, then simply placing the shelf, ideally as small and light as possible, on the brackets. Take time to make sure the shelf is level and does not rock but resist the temptation to screw the shelf to the brackets to make the structure more rigid, this will 'couple' the player to the structure of the room and make the sound worse.

Whilst you are experimenting I suggest that you try a spiked platform under your Rega, this is simple enough to make, a simple chipboard shelf the same size as the Rega base and three spikes, (2 front, 1 rear) point down onto the glass top.

I always found this approach the most effective (other than wall mounting) but every system is different, you have to try it for yourself.

I understand your suggestions but think when it comes to wall-mounting the 'coupling' bit matters little.

By mounting on a wall you are removing the player from 'footfall' problems and floorboard movement an is the ideal way to isolate any deck be it suspended chassis or not.

The idea that anything the turntable does is going to travel into the wall and effect other parts of your system non-existant.

Or did I get your meaning all wrong??

No you have understood me correctly.

My experience tells me that I am correct, though why this the case is debateable. Rigidly fixed shelves most definitely work less well than 'decoupled' shelves, I have done this dozens, maybe hundreds of times.

My understanding is limited, I believe that the more massive the structure on which the player is sited the more low frequencies are transmitted to the player and the bigger the proplem, there is probably more to it than that but it does follow the empiricle data.

In this particular case the OP has a stand on a solid floor, but something is getting into the player as his expreriments (so far) seem to show.