Amp - speaker combo for refined thump a di thump.

[Vladimir]

ProAc Studio 140 MkII are deemed lively and on the bright side, quite difficult toa push by most amps to high SPL because they are 4 ohms nominal and drop bellow 3 ohms. However, they are very powerfull, loud, musical, resolving, detailed, but never harsh because of the silk dome tweeter. They are worth the trouble for finding them a proper partner.

Enter the hammer of Thor, the forcefull, smooth but dark Norwegian Electrocompaniet Prelude PI-2. Stable as low as 2 ohms, it can drive every commercial speaker on the plannet with ease, which comes at no surprise considering the build quality that goes in it.

:wave:

 

[Vladimir]

A more lively All-Brittish combo sold at the same dealer for £3K:

ProAc Studio 140 MkII + Roksan Caspian M2

 

[CnoEvil]

ProAc Studio 140 MkII are deemed lively and on the bright side, quite difficult toa push by most amps to high SPL because they are 4 ohms nominal and drop bellow 3 ohms. However, they are very powerfull, loud, musical, resolving, detailed, but never harsh because of the silk dome tweeter. They are worth the trouble for finding them a proper partner.

Enter the hammer of Thor, the forcefull, smooth but dark Norwegian Electrocompaniet Prelude PI-2. Stable as low as 2 ohms, it can drive every commercial speaker on the plannet with ease, which comes at no surprise considering the build quality that goes in it.

:wave:

Your suggestions go to the heart of exactly what the OP's taste is....even the PI-2 itself is slightly more "modern and dynamic" sounding compared to the ECI-3....both great choices.

 

[Pyramus]

CnoEvil - i think I would go with smoothe, refined yet detailed. Unfortunately I haven't heard any really good systems for a very long time. The Budget: 3K or thereabouts. I guess this has to include accessories.

Music: Regina Spector, Tenniscoats, Agnes Obel, - Bob Dylan, Ray La Montagne, Otis Taylor, (young) Van Morrisson - (Recently: Santigold, Major Lazer, Frank Ocean, **** Buttons), Massive Attack, Maya Jane Coles, Underworld, Eekamouse, - Rossini, Puccini, Verdi...

Vladimir: I like the Hammer of God. I like the Proacs - on a visual/emotional level. I suppose I need to find a place to audition them. What happens if I buy them blind? If I do, I have no comparison... - is there any way to rely on Thor and Proac being smoothe, refined yet detailed? Any other guranteed winning combos.

Maybe I need to just get started with the above and then see where that takes me - learning by doing as it were. I imagine these components will have a fairly decent resell value?

Thank you both for your ideas :cheers: :cheers:

Pyramus

 

[CnoEvil]

CnoEvil - i think I would go with smoothe, refined yet detailed. Unfortunately I haven't heard any really good systems for a very long time. The Budget: 3K or thereabouts. I guess this has to include accessories.

Music: Regina Spector, Tenniscoats, Agnes Obel, - Bob Dylan, Ray La Montagne, Otis Taylor, (young) Van Morrisson - (Recently: Santigold, Major Lazer, Frank Ocean, **** Buttons), Massive Attack, Maya Jane Coles, Underworld, Eekamouse, - Rossini, Puccini, Verdi...

Vladimir: I like the Hammer of God. I like the Proacs - on a visual/emotional level. I suppose I need to find a place to audition them. What happens if I buy them blind? If I do, I have no comparison... - is there any way to rely on Thor and Proac being smoothe, refined yet detailed? Any other guranteed winning combos.

Maybe I need to just get started with the above and then see where that takes me - learning by doing as it were. I imagine these components will have a fairly decent resell value?

Thank you both for your ideas :cheers: :cheers:

Pyramus

In that case, I would consider Electrocompaniet / Sugden + Proac / Kef R Series. Nb. Sugden + Proac is a known match.

Good luck and let us know how things go.

Ps. Try to push the budget as far as you can, due to the room size....which needs big speakers and an amp that can control them.

 

[Vladimir]

@Pyramus

I realize the EC will be a blind buy since it is in a different shop from the ProAc, so there is no guarantee that you will like it. You can pay a deposit for the EC amp and take it to the showroom where they sell the ProAc and test it. If you don't like the result you can take the amp back.

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO. The Electros are a relatively safe bet......certainly, I'm not aware of anyone on here who said they disliked them after hearing.

It's also worth noting that the Proac D18 are more refined sounding than the Studio 140...though the 140 are more sensitive (91dB vs 88 dB) and go a little lower (25Hz vs 30Hz).

 

[Vladimir]

IMO. The Electros are a relatively safe bet......certainly, I'm not aware of anyone on here who said they disliked them after hearing.

It's also worth noting that the Proac D18 are more refined sounding than the Studio 140...though the 140 are more sensitive (91dB vs 88 dB) and go a little lower (25Hz vs 30Hz).

The 140 mkIIs are more powerfull, louder, more efficient, cheaper, more difficult to drive. For the D18 for that room he will need a sub (or two), but he will have more refined sound and pick any amp he wants because the D18 are 8 ohms nominal.

Given the factors of large room, choice of music and budget, the 140 mkII are the way to go IMO.

 

[CnoEvil]

Given the factors of large room, choice of music and budget, the 140 mkII are the way to go IMO.

On the basis of the specs / cost, I agree.......don't know how they compare in practice. On balance, with the Electro, the 140s make terrific sense.....though I would also try R500 / 700, both of which can generate terrific scale.

 

[Vladimir]

Given the factors of large room, choice of music and budget, the 140 mkII are the way to go IMO.

On the basis of the specs / cost, I agree.......don't know how they compare in practice. On balance, with the Electro, the 140s make terrific sense.....though I would also try R500 / 700, both of which can generate terrific scale.

I don't see a reason why not, also excellent speakers. MA, Tannoy, KEF, he should try as much floorstanders as possible while he can. We are really spoiled and maddened with choice.

:cheers:

 

[CnoEvil]

I don't see a reason why not, also excellent speakers. MA, Tannoy, KEF, he should try as much floorstanders as possible while he can. We are really spoiled and maddened with choice.

:cheers:

I'm working on the principal that the OP has limited time to dem, so has to have a list that is pretty small.

IMO. MA may be a little forward, and affordable Tannoy a little lean (though match well with Electro amps)...chosing for someone else isn't easy.

 

[Pyramus]

I am very excited... have just put a deposit on the Electrocompanier PI-2! :cheers: :bounce: The Hammer of Thor! Thanks so much Vladimir for this tip.

Electrocompanier say they have had good experiences with Chario,KEF,Triangle,Dynaudio,ProAc. SO I guess... roll on the Studio 140 mk2.

Thanks too for your tips CnoEvil.

 

[CnoEvil]

Good choice!

If you are going to dem some speakers, try to do so in as big a room as they have available.

 

[Vladimir]

Pyramus, you can take the amp back easily after choosing the speakers since it was already unboxed demo unit. But who knows, maybe you will stuff it in the suitcase and keep it.

Have CD's ready that will test those ProAc's to the max. Ask the shop to have the speakers playing far away from walls, try to simulate your room.

 

[Vladimir]

The 140 mkII compared to D18.

 

[CnoEvil]

A picture is worth a thousant words....good job.

@OP

If stability is likely to be an issue, the R500 is a similar size but has its spikes on outriggers.

Studio 140 [ins] 41 H x 7.5 W x 11 D

R500 [ins] 42 H x 7.1/11.8* x 12.9 D

* The plinth and spikes gives an extra 3.7" of width.

 

[Vladimir]

The KEF R700 can go to whoping 113dB.

Family photo. R700 > R500 > R300

 

[Pyramus]

Yes, very good point Cno, with 3 kids and 3 cats stability is an issue. Thanks for the pictures Vladimir, you are very accomplished with this. 8) I will try and find somewhere between Cornwall and London where I can listen to them both hooked up to the electrocompaniet. :rockout:

 

[CnoEvil]

The KEF R700 can go to whoping 113dB.

Family photo. R700 > R500 > R300

Great photo for comparison purposes. :beer:

The R700s are imo, the sweetspot of the range......most people don't have rooms large enough to let the R900s breath. They all produce prodigious bass for their respective sizes.

 

[Vladimir]

Lets do some simple math for the room SPL levels.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

In the case of the ProAc 140 MkII's:

91dB SPL (1W/1m)

150W from the amp in 4 ohms

Away from walls

Listening position 4m away (13 ft)

The listener will get 103.8dB

In the case of the KEF R700's:

88dB SPL (1W/1m)

100W from the amp in 8 ohms

Away from walls

Listening position 4m away (13 ft)

The listener will get 99dB

In the case of the B&W CM1's:

84dB SPL (1W/1m)

150W from the amp in 8 ohms

In corners and near walls

Listening position 2m away (6.56 ft)

The listener will get 105.7dB

 

[CnoEvil]

In the case of the KEF R700's:

88dB SPL (1W/1m)

100W from the amp in 8 ohms

Away from walls

Listening position 4m away (13 ft)

The listener will get 99dB

It's a small point but 88 dB applies to the R500 (it's 89 dB for R700)

 

[Vladimir]

Ooops, my bad.

In the case of the KEF R700's:

89dB SPL (1W/1m)

100W from the amp in 8 ohms

Away from walls

Listening position 4m away (13 ft)

The listener will get 100dB

To get the KEF's up to 103dB the amp will need to be 200W in 8 Ohms. For every next 3dB the amp will need to double its power (400W for 106dB).

 

[Vladimir]

Just to give perspective of how loud is 100dB.

Jet take-off (at 305 meters), use of outboard motor, power lawn mower, motorcycle, farm tractor, jackhammer, garbage truck. Boeing 707 or DC-8 aircraft at one nautical mile (6080 ft) before landing (106 dB); jet flyover at 1000 feet (103 dB); Bell J-2A helicopter at 100 ft (100 dB). 100dB is 8 times as loud as 70 dB. Serious damage possible in 8 hr exposure.

Passenger car at 65 mph at 25 ft (77 dB); freeway at 50 ft from pavement edge 10 a.m. (76 dB). Living room music (76 dB); radio or TV-audio, vacuum cleaner (70 dB). 70dB is arbitrary base of comparison. Upper 70s are annoyingly loud to some people.

Source: https://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/Training/PPETrain/dblevels.htm

 

[CnoEvil]

Two more possible points of interest:

- Electrocompaniet Amps sound best when connected through their Balanced inputs, to fully balanced sources.

- Proac Speakers were voiced to sound well with Tube Amps, which is why (imo) they need careful matching with SS amps (eg. Sugden / Electro / Luxman etc)

 

[Vladimir]

Well tube amps have low damping factor (high output impedance) of under 15. The EC PI-2 has 250 in 8 ohms

, which means damping factor of 125 in 4 ohms. It will controll the ProAc's superbly, however bass will be tight and not to everyones taste. Some like it to bloom, thus the love for tube amps. I like it both punchy and deep, not a fan of boomy bass.