Advice needed please!

[matthewpiano]

jrwight:
Hi Matthewpiano,I'm really interested to hear what you think of the different amps. I have the Quad 22Ls and an Arcam A70 and CD73. My feeling at the moment is that the CD player is good but the amp is underpowered. While I'm after a smooth and neutral to warm sound, my impression ÿis that the Arcam is a bit polite, even recessed - although I'm pleased that it's certainly not too bright. I listen mainly to classical music and jazz and in particular to music on "original" instruments - there's nothing like an overly bright system for making "original" instrument recordings sound unbearable (as if someone's doing unspeakable things to cats - and I'm a cat lover!). Do let us know how you go.

Cheers,ÿJulienne (virtoz)

Hi. I've had the A70 and CD73 combination in the past and I'd agree wholeheartedly with your view. You really have to turn the A70 up loud to get any life out of it. The CD player and your speakers deserve a better amp I'm sure.

Just listening to 'Night Train' by the Oscar Peterson Trio. Will post my thoughts on the Audiolab later on.

 

[matthewpiano]

OK, time for some observations about the Audiolab 8000S following a 4 hour listening session this morning with my current BR2s and NAD C521BEE.

This is a largely neutral amplifier with a slight warmth to its sounding in the midband. Detail levels are high but in a very organic way and there is an excellent sense of balance across the frequency range. The amp paints a very vivid soundstage both in width and depth. With a 1961 recording of Klemperer conducting orchestral and choral forces in Brahms' German Requiem every element of the ensemble was placed naturally and securely with none of the instability of soundstage that I've heard with some amplifiers. Whilst providing the detail, I'm getting a more complete musical picture than the Denon PMA1500AE was giving me and its a less tiring sound to listen to (the Denon has a very ballsy presentation that really needs a larger room than I can provide). I've also found that the Audiolab has plenty of power in reserve for the dynamic peaks, and it reminds me of NAD amplification in this sense, although its more refined than the NAD amps I've heard.

A selection of operatic recordings by Bryn Terfel, Renee Fleming, and Anna Netrebko displayed the beauty of the Audiolab's mid-range with just a hint of a slightly closed-in sound at times which (from my experience of them) is more down to the Monitor Audio speakers than the amplifier. The Anna Netrebko recording of Russalka's Song To The Moon (Dvorak) displayed all the passion and tonal interest of her voice which I've often found lost before, and the sound of Terfel's voice in Handel arias was incredibly focused.

Playing The Oscar Peterson Trio's 'Night Train' I was again taken with the organic sound produced and by the firm and convincing soundstage. The double bass sounded deft and tuneful and Peterson's piano was well re-produced. Although the Audiolab doesn't have the Pace Rhythm And Timing of a Naim Nait, it still gets the feet tapping when its appropriate.

On The Incredible String Band's 'Talking Of The End' (from the album 'Liquid Acrobat As Regards The Air') the tonal qualities of isntruments were again re-produced very convincingly and the clarity of sound was excellent but without ever becoming clinical.

I'm currently listening to Andras Schiff's ECM recording of the Op.2 Beethoven Piano Sonatas and I'm particularly impressed with the fact that, with the Audiolab, it sounds like the whole range of the piano is coming from one instrument rather than being falsely stretched across the speakers. Tonal information is also very good with good depth but a lack of the flase bloom that piano can often suffer from with some equipment.

Criticisms? Very occasionally the sound could do with slightly more air, particularly in the mid-range. I think the Quad 11Ls (which I'm picking up later on) could solve that though and I'm impatient to hear what effect they have on the sound.

Otherwise I am currently very impressed. On a usability level the remote looks old fashioned but works extremely well (much better than the remote volume adjustment on NAD C325BEE) and the amplifier is very discrete and simple.

 

[idc]

drummerman:

I might be wrong but sounds like you're in a bit of a hifi rut Matthew. Everybody gets it at some stage and (imo) frantically changing equipment will get you nowhere. Not at least because you won't give yourself the time to accustom to new changes.

I once bought a Denon Micro after chopping and changing my system to often. Lived with the thing for a while and enjoyed music again! Of course eventually I started again but being very careful with selection.

Matthewpiano, can I just add to Drummerman's comments. You are in the frame of mind that means you listen with a critical and analytical ear, rather than your aim of relaxation and enjoyment. You are changing kit at a pace that means you will not settle with anything at the moment (your last post describes a four hour listening session with hif about to be replaced, is that not the wrong way round?) and you appear to have decided on a particular item because you fancied one as a kid (do you want a set up you are happy with or a sound you are happy with?).

I totally understand why Drummerman went for a Denon Micro, he wanted to away from the setup and back to the music again.

 

[matthewpiano]

Thanks idc, I know exactly where you and Drummerman are coming from and I agree entirely. This whole hifi thing can get in the way sometimes and that is what I'm trying to get out of. I thought I'd solved it when I bought the Denon stuff last year but its clear I didn't listen to it for long enough before parting with my money. Its also becoming blatantly clear to me that the only place to really audition kit is at home.

To this end, the Audiolab has never been a permanent fixture because its on free loan so that I can spend some proper time with it to see if it gives me what I am looking for. That is why I've been listening to it for such a long session (which is still going on now). I'll be comparing it directly with the Cyrus 7 when I get that and making a choice based on extended listening with my own CDs and in my own home. Whichever one I keep I don't think I'll lose financially.

Its exactly the same with the speakers. I'll be doing direct and extended comparisons between the MAs and the Quads before I make my final decision.

RE the CD63SE KI-Sig, I have actually heard one adn that (as well as misguided nostalgia) is the main reason for the purchase. Again, if it doesn't work out I doubt I'll lose anything becasue they are in such high demand.

What I have found today is that I have really enjoyed listening to the music and I've not stopped putting discs on. That seems like a good sign but I'm not rushing anything.

Thanks for the advice. It is very much appreciated and extremely good, common sense advice.

 

[idc]

Matthewpiano, I am also jealous because as someone who is not big on shopping, planning and buying hifi in itself is a pleasure. I have spent a good few happy hours at various hifi shops, and even had one come to me at home, which was great. You say that you are really enjoying listening to the music during the process, great. Some posts I have read suggest that putting together a system causes an eternal frustration that the desired sound is not quite there yet.

 

[matthewpiano]

idc:Matthewpiano, I am also jealous because as someone who is not big on shopping, planning and buying hifi in itself is a pleasure. I have spent a good few happy hours at various hifi shops, and even had one come to me at home, which was great. You say that you are really enjoying listening to the music during the process, great. Some posts I have read suggest that putting together a system causes an eternal frustration that the desired sound is not quite there yet.

You are of course right - the eternal frustration has been there fairly consistently and its this that I need to lose. As I'm taking it more steadily now adn spending proper time with the equipment, I'm enjoying the process much more. I know I'm never going to get perfection, I just want a system I can really live with and that leaves me to concentrate on enjoying the music. That is why I'm trying stuff at home this time and using the purchase of second hand kit that holds its price reasonably as a way to give me some options.

 

[idc]

I know that this off topic, but how do you find the risks of buying off the likes of ebay. Everything I have seen that is hifi related has stated 'no returns'. I assume all you can do is rubbish a seller who sends you something faulty in that case.

P.S - is buying second hand worthy of a topic in itself?

 

[drummerman]

idc:
... I totally understand why Drummerman went for a Denon Micro, he wanted to away from the setup and back to the music again.

Sure but if a Naim Uniti would have been available then I probably ...

One of the problems is that there are so many variables with separates that it can become mighty confusing and not just for people starting with the hobby. Add cables etc and it can be a recipe for disappointment.

That is why I personally like solutions such as AVI or the above Naim amongst others. They take some of the confusion (and sound degrading connections between equipment, something rarely mentioned) out of the equation. It may not be perfection but I think its the way forward. I think there's also something psychologicaly satisfying in knowing that you can't endlessly tinker/upgrade these integrated solutions, or at least it's limited. I appreciate that may not be the case for everyone.

 

[Anonymous]

idc:
I know that this off topic, but how do you find the risks of buying off the likes of ebay. Everything I have seen that is hifi related has stated 'no returns'. I assume all you can do is rubbish a seller who sends you something faulty in that case.

P.S - is buying second hand worthy of a topic in itself?

I am purely guessing here but if you got sent something which was faulty then I think you would be covered via paypal but personally I have never had a problem. I think if you purchase off people with sound ratings, then it's not in their interests to sell you something which is faulty and if we are talking about an awful lot of money, well it would be advised for you to travel and demo it.

 

[idc]

Matthewpiano - how are things progressing?

 

[Anonymous]

idc:

P.S - is buying second hand worthy of a topic in itself?

yes!
http://whathifi.com/forums/t/212098.aspx

 

[matthewpiano]

idc:Matthewpiano - how are things progressing?

Thanks for your interest in my hi-fi plight!!

I'm having a lot of fun at the moment trying lots of different second hand items and doing some extended listening. I'm also re-discovering parts of my music collection that I've not heard for ages so it can only be a good thing!

A few thoughts:

Audiolab 8000s: It was great in many ways and I enjoyed several hours listening to it, but in the end there was a strange thickening/wooliness in the sound sometimes that I can't really describe that accurately. I decided it would get on my nerves over time so I took the loan item back to the hi-fi dealer.

Since then I've bought (2nd hand) and tried Cyrus 7 and Pioneer A400 amps. Both brilliant in their own way. The Cyrus was incredible in terms of detail and unravelling the layers of things but in the end I wanted just a little more warmth and I felt that it really deserved a better CD player than I can afford. The Pioneer is quite wonderful in its musicality. It doesn't touch the Cyrus for detail (though its still quite a detailed listen) but the balance between warmth and clarity is just right. To be honest its much more of an all round performer than the Denon PMA1500AE was. It sounded excellent through the Quad 11Ls I picked up, but then I pulled my old Wharfedale Diamond 8.3+ floorstanders out of storage and it found a whole new level of performance. I've tried both a Rotel RCD965BX and Marantz CD63MkII KI-Signature with it, and much prefer the Marantz which seems to have really good synergy with the A400.

So the state of play at the moment is that the Cyrus is being sold on (its far too good to just sit in my spare room gathering dust, and I can't justify not turning it back into cash) and I've sold my MA BR2s. I think I might have found the amplifier for me in the Pioneer, and it works extremely well with my Wharfedale floorstanders so I can't see those going anywhere either (I always was rather fond of them). In fact, I'm so convinced by the Pioneer that I'm going to be on the look out for a second one as a back-up. Its taken me a long time to find an amplifier with such all-round performance and I don't want to be searching again in the future. The Marantz CD player is also rather special and I'll be keeping that but would also like to try one of the better Pioneer Stable Platter models maybe to have as an alternative and back-up to the Marantz.

So, I'm getting much closer to the music and starting to have fun with it again, funnily enough with the smallest amount of money I've spent on a set-up for ages. I'll let you know how things go, but I don't think there will be many changes now.