A wonderful £1k streaming system...

[roger06]

Wow – after much good advice from folks here, I finally went to SevenOaks in Guildford on Saturday as an 'advisor' to my cousin who was in the market for a streaming system with a £1k budget.

I'm truly stunned with the results.

We came away with:

Apple TV –> Digital Optical cable –> Arcam rDAC –> Chord Crimson –> Marantz PM6003 amp, QED XT Evolution cable –> B&W 685 speakers.

The system was toe tapping, punchy, detailed and engaging. Not at all what I was expecting for this money. And this was streaming low bit rate 128 kbps rips as his iTunes had been used for an iPod...

Now, my kit is more expensive and his set up doesn't match it when I play CDs, but in terms of streaming, his blows mine away... mine being:[]

Apple TV –> HDMI –> Yamaha RX V1065 (acting as a DAC) –> Naim Nait 5i –> Dynaudio Audience 52SEs.

I'm listening to mine now and by comparison, it sounds like someone's thrown a blanket over the speakers.

I think the key here is the Arcam rDAC - I think it's doing a way better job than my Yammie amp in the digital to analogue conversion – what do you think?

I'm certainly going to get my cousin to bring his Aram rDAC down so I can put it in my system and have a play...

If anyone's interested I'll post what other kit we auditioned.

 

[the record spot]

It'll be that and the speakers combined most likely. Would be interested to know more for sure - feel free to post away! Had a similar experience myself of late.

 

[scene]

I'd tend to agree with RS.

But I also think it might well be worth you performing a comparative test on your set up using the existing HDMI cable and an Optical one between the Apple TV and your AMP. I'm wondering if this might change the performance somewhat.

 

[steve_1979]

Why don't you borrow his rDAC for a day and see how your system sounds with it.

 

[roger06]

scene:I'd tend to agree with RS.

But I also think it might well be worth you performing a comparative test on your set up using the existing HDMI cable and an Optical one between the Apple TV and your AMP. I'm wondering if this might change the performance somewhat.

Yeah that's interesting... guess I'll need an optical cable anyway if do down the DAC route so wouldn't hurt to buy one... it's quite a cheap HDMI cable there at the mo.

 

[roger06]

steve_1979:
Why don't you borrow his rDAC for a day and see how your system sounds with it.

Indeed! Knicking it off him was the first thing that sprang to mind when I heard it!

 

[scene]

roger06:
scene:I'd tend to agree with RS.

But I also think it might well be worth you performing a comparative test on your set up using the existing HDMI cable and an Optical one between the Apple TV and your AMP. I'm wondering if this might change the performance somewhat.

Yeah that's interesting... guess I'll need an optical cable anyway if do down the DAC route so wouldn't hurt to buy one... it's quite a cheap HDMI cable there at the mo.

Yep, timing (of sound) isn't guaranteed on an HDMI cable, hence why systems, such as Pioneer's PQLS, were developed. I'd also consider a good quality co-axial cable, if possible, when testing the rDAC, as Arcam seems to favour these over optical. Might also want to throw a better HDMI cable into the mix...

 

[roger06]

Thanks Scene

That's interesting. The system sounded better in my cousin's house once we got it home despite:

1. Low bit rate source
2. Brand new amp not run in
3. Speakers in a temporary (awful) position.

I'm guessing it didn't sound as good as it could in the shop was that we connected a MacBook Pro to the DAC by USB which I assume must be the worst of all? not really design for AV at all...

Trouble with co-ax is that the Apple TV only has Optical (unless they use the same connector?)

 

[scene]

roger06:
Trouble with co-ax is that the Apple TV only has Optical (unless they use the same connector?)

Oops

- Of course, you're right, no co-ax out on the Apple - forgotten that little fact!

 

[axman]

I have apple TV2 connected to yamaha 2065, and did report in some other thread that the optical connection sounded flat compared to the HDMI.

Optical cable is a TCI coral and HDMI is a QED "classic".

After a few hours listening, I now find them exactly identical. Maybe the optical needed a bit more time to settle down.

I am also wondering if it is worthwhile getting a DAC. So would love to hear your review soon!

 

[roger06]

Probably won't be for a couple of weeks axman...

Perhaps the lovely guys at WHF could do a test - your home cinema as a DAC vs a dedicated unit?

The guy at SevenOaks had a point - a HC amp is for surround sound / multi channel etc - they happen to have Optical inputs etc. A DAC on the other hand has just one purpose - converting those little 0s and 1s...

 

[scene]

It's more than that roger06 - you're comparing a dedicated DAC + dedicated Stereo amp with an AV (i.e. multichannel) amp with an in-built DAC. As has been said before and tested (by such people as WHFS&V themselves) a dedicated stereo AMP will out-perform an AV amp for two-channel music on a price/performance basis.

 

[roger06]

Hi Scene

No not really - my Naim Nait5i is a two channel stereo amp. The Yamaha's front pre outs feed into this so I can use it for multi channel with the Yamaha and simple two channel with the Naim. In this setup the Yamaha is simply taking the place of the DAC as it's not pumping anything out to the speakers directly.

So for me, it is a question of what makes a better DAC to sit between an Apple TV and my Nait5i, a dedicated unit or home cinema amp...

 

[scene]

roger06:
Hi Scene

No not really - my Naim Nait5i is a two channel stereo amp. The Yamaha's front pre outs feed into this so I can use it for multi channel with the Yamaha and simple two channel with the Naim. In this setup the Yamaha is simply taking the place of the DAC as it's not pumping anything out to the speakers directly.

So for me, it is a question of what makes a better DAC to sit between an Apple TV and my Nait5i, a dedicated unit or home cinema amp...

Oops again! Twice in one thread - I'm slipping... Sorry, missed the Nait in the equation (must re-read OP before posting!). Silly question - does the Yammy have a Stereo/Pure direct mode (Can't remember - thought it did)? If so - do you use that when routing two-channel music to the Nait?

 

[roger06]

Easily done mate - I skim read too!

Yes it does have a Pure Direct - I've used it when listening to the tuner at times but it hadn't even crossed my mind when using it this way. I'll give it a whirl and let you know...

 

[roger06]

Right - Pure Direct on makes a really big difference. Sounds like that blanket on the speakers have been removed.

I must set up my Harmony remote to switch it to that by default.

That was a top tip thanks. (Am still going to borrow the rDAC though!)

 

[Anonymous]

i wouldn't have thought that pure direct would make any difference to two channel music if the naim is powering the speakers.. or am i missing something?

 

[Dave_]

roger06:
Hi Scene

No not really - my Naim Nait5i is a two channel stereo amp. The Yamaha's front pre outs feed into this so I can use it for multi channel with the Yamaha and simple two channel with the Naim. In this setup the Yamaha is simply taking the place of the DAC as it's not pumping anything out to the speakers directly.

So for me, it is a question of what makes a better DAC to sit between an Apple TV and my Nait5i, a dedicated unit or home cinema amp...

But the Yamaha is still acting as a pre-amp, so it's not just about the quality off its DAC...

 

[steve_1979]

roger06:

Perhaps the lovely guys at WHF could do a test - your home cinema as a DAC vs a dedicated unit?

Yes WHF please do. I would be very interested to see how the Beresford TC-7520 compares to the DAC in my Yamaha RX-V667 receiver.

 

[Anonymous]

daveh75:roger06:
Hi Scene

No not really - my Naim Nait5i is a two channel stereo amp. The Yamaha's front pre outs feed into this so I can use it for multi channel with the Yamaha and simple two channel with the Naim. In this setup the Yamaha is simply taking the place of the DAC as it's not pumping anything out to the speakers directly.

So for me, it is a question of what makes a better DAC to sit between an Apple TV and my Nait5i, a dedicated unit or home cinema amp...

But the Yamaha is still acting as a pre-amp, so it's not just about the quality off its DAC...

that's what i was thinking, if the naim is only being used as a power amp then it's not being used to it's full potential.

 

[roger06]

Yeah, to be honest guys, I'm not really sure what the Yamaha is bringing to the party here.

Clearly the Naim is superior but is it only supply the power to the speakers?

We need an expert here!

 

[Anonymous]

i'm guessing, but i think that the yamaha is doing the processing and the naim is doing the powering.

i reckon if the naim was doing both it would give you a better sound.

edit... roger, why dont you connect your blu-ray player directly to your naim and spin a few cds? i've a feeling it will sound better than with the yamaha in the chain..

double edit...i've just noticed that you also have a naim cd player, so obviously that's better to use than the bdp

..

.....

 

[roger06]

maxflinn:
i'm guessing, but i think that the yamaha is doing the processing and the naim is doing the powering.

i reckon if the naim was doing both it would give you a better sound.

So theoretically if I plugged the speakers directly into the Yamaha (and unplugged the pre outs) it would sound the same?

 

[Anonymous]

roger06:maxflinn:
i'm guessing, but i think that the yamaha is doing the processing and the naim is doing the powering.

i reckon if the naim was doing both it would give you a better sound.

So theoretically if I plugged the speakers directly into the Yamaha (and unplugged the pre outs) it would sound the same?

yes i think so. see my edited post above btw.

 

[roger06]

Max - yes I think that would be interesting. All my gear's in an oak cabinet so all very difficult to get to!

Now I've thought about it then yes, of course, the Naim is just providing the power. Otherwise for the surround sound in this set up, if the Naim was providing the 'detail' (tone? colour? - you know what I mean) then the 2 fronts would sound different to the rest of the speakers being driven by the AV amp.

Short and simple - I need that DAC!