A Sound Experience - Amp Auditions Today

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Glad you had such a great time mate, though I have to say I'm happy to be off that bandwagon now - since the 717 came back from amp hospital it's about as good as it gets for me. No need, or want really, to spend anymore. The Leema Pulse was rather good however (not quite as good as the Sansui but that's as much personal taste as it is anything else), so the new Pulse promises much.

I take it you have the Primare stuff on a return option then or did you buy cold with no option to send back if it's not your thing?
 
ESP2009:drummerman:

Good and interesting write-up. I have a similar model marantz, the KI, which I admittedly dont use often but can understand why you like it. I perhaps would'nt compare it with some of the better modern amplifiers I've heard, especially around the price you've auditioned but whether they justify the huge extra expense is another matter. It has a lot to do with how seriously you take your hobby, not least financially.

But I think it's relevant to hear these elevated products in the context of matched system. Old phrase but any link is only as good as the rest of the chain.

I did'nt notice you mentioning the rest of the demo system/s, just worth bearing in mind. In any case, you came away feeling happy with what you have and that can only be a good thing.

Thanks. My thoughts regarding the PM66SE KI Sig vs the three newer and more expensive models I heard yesterday are basically that:

1. The law of diminishing returns on your financial outlay definitely seemed self-evident.

2. For the money, the KI Sig was an absolute bargain.

3. However, as I think about it, what is the modern equivalent of £500 spent in the 1990s? I think the Marantz retailed for approx £500 back then, which was not cheap, but what would be the equivalent now? Is the Kandy K2, at almost £900, a close equivalent?

I am currently and finally in a fortunate financial position to be comfortable enough to consider spending what many would consider silly money on hi-fi, but the old me sounds a note of caution regarding value for money. One reason for considering a range of options.

I don't know if I misunderstood your comment, or you misunderstood my post, but basically what I did was take my Marantz CD63 KI Sig, KI Sig amp, DacMagic, Spendors and even the cabling from my system. Then all we did was swap the amps in and out. No other components were introduced. I absolutely take onboard the issue of matched items, but firstly I wanted to see if any amp can push my existing kit that bit further in terms of performance, and I am also quite confident that, based on various other comments, both the CDP and the speakers can easily cope with more elevated amplification than I already have.

Anyway, it's all very interesting.
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Hi.

Yep, I did understand what you meant.

When I listened to a Naim system, the amplifier did not match well with either a Naim player lower down the range nor a different brand one I use. When matched with the more expensive Naim cdp, it was an altogether different situation. This, nearly £2k player in turn showed up the deficiencies of my own system. - All you need is one bottleneck, whatever that may be. In your case, and I don't mean for one moment to criticise what is obviously a very nicely paired system, it may have been your source/DAC that held the more expensive amplifiers back. It could have been the speakers but having both owned the KI sig player and heard the DACmagic I'd point my finger there.

This is all irrelevant really as I have had the misfortune of hearing some mismatched, expensive products which did not live up to their prices and conversely, a few relatively inexpensive ones which played beyond what I'd expected. On the whole though, a more expensive, well put-together system will almost certainly always be better in ultimate hifi terms than a cheaper, similarely well matched one ... at a price.

Whether the costly one is more enjoyable is debatable. With high price come high expectations. - I read somewhere that we always want 30% more than what we have. If that is true, we're constantly chasing satisfaction ...
 
maxflinn:it doesnt take much to lead me into av temptation ..
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...

no its just that i cant seem to recall anyone saying that after demoing a leema pulse they were not impressed , even the roksan kandy k2 divides opinion slightly , and yes i love the marantz sound , well , assuming marantz has a trademark sound , but i love what my 6003 sounds like anyway compared to my ex nad....

i wonder when the new marantz range of stereo amps is coming out ?

or perhaps i should look at getting an old one as you have esp , im assuming even though its much older it would be better than ive got ? hmmm , questions questions
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Kandy K2
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But no clear improvement over the PM66SE KI Sig. That said, I reckon the Marantz would be more expensive if it were introduced today, so who knows? Hard to do a proper and fair comparison with 20yrs between them.

Leema Pulse 2 - definitely an improvement, but also a tricky proposition to compare in terms of value for money.

Leema Pulse 3 - mmmmmmmmm
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, but at £1500 a pop? Does it give that much improvement? Would need far more time to audition for that decision.

Marantz kit? It would be interesting to put the PM66SE KI Sig against the 6003 and see how they compare. For the new stuff, I understand we may see something from as early as August, but you never know with these launches. If the Primare kit hadn't turned up on eBay when it did, I would certainly have held on to give the new KI amp a listen (might do so anyway). I think it may be coming in at around £1k, but with the financial markets the way they are, who knows what might happen before the summer is over?

Anyway, here's to this evening's listening. Just received a message that the OH may be back an hour earlier - how cruel is that?
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the record spot:Glad you had such a great time mate, though I have to say I'm happy to be off that bandwagon now - since the 717 came back from amp hospital it's about as good as it gets for me. No need, or want really, to spend anymore. The Leema Pulse was rather good however (not quite as good as the Sansui but that's as much personal taste as it is anything else), so the new Pulse promises much. I take it you have the Primare stuff on a return option then or did you buy cold with no option to send back if it's not your thing?

Mea Culpa! I bought the Primare kit cold. I have taken a chance on liking the sound, based on all I have read. Anyway, I reckon the resale value is good enough that I can sell it on without taking a hammering (especially if I wait until the World Cup is over!)

And I fully appreciate what you say about resting on your laurels. I really must settle down, so I hope the Primare kit does it for me, possibly without an immediate yearning for a speaker upgrade! So, yes, I would like to get to your status but there is one problem (at least) I am a late starter!
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drummerman:

Hi.

Yep, I did understand what you meant.

When I listened to a Naim system, the amplifier did not match well with either a Naim player lower down the range nor a different brand one I use. When matched with the more expensive Naim cdp, it was an altogether different situation. This, nearly £2k player in turn showed up the deficiencies of my own system. - All you need is one bottleneck, whatever that may be. In your case, and I don't mean for one moment to criticise what is obviously a very nicely paired system, it may have been your source/DAC that held the more expensive amplifiers back. It could have been the speakers but having both owned the KI sig player and heard the DACmagic I'd point my finger there.

This is all irrelevant really as I have had the misfortune of hearing some mismatched, expensive products which did not live up to their prices and conversely, a few relatively inexpensive ones which played beyond what I'd expected. On the whole though, a more expensive, well put-together system will almost certainly always be better in ultimate hifi terms than a cheaper, similarely well matched one ... at a price.

Whether the costly one is more enjoyable is debatable. With high price come high expectations. - I read somewhere that we always want 30% more than what we have. If that is true, we're constantly chasing satisfaction ...

I can only agree with you. In fact, I would say that you can either be very lucky and stumble across your ideal system very quickly, have a knack or skill and thus find partnering the ideal kit relatively quick and easy, or spend years chasing your tail, spending a fortune in time and money. Some enjoy the last option immensely!
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Depends how you view your hobby, I suppose - for some it is mostly in the chase.

For me, it's somewhere in the middle of the range: I will discount luck (unless those Primare boxes really shine) and rely on checking reviews and forum posts, enjoying the search for really good components, but ultimately pursuing a setup that I can sit back and listen to with the satisfaction that I have done a good job in putting together. Unfortunately, I cannot help but wonder if there is something better out there that is (sensibly) attainable and I have missed. Not good. Therapy is the only answer.
 
JohnDuncan:ESP2009:(unless those Primare boxes really shine) They will, they will. Especially the knobs.
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You see? That's what I want - shiny knobs! That's exactly where the Pulse 3 lets itself down - no shiny knobs to twiddle. It's all boring push buttons. True, it does come in black and at least one other colour rather than just white, but in my mind's eye, with the black Pulse 3, I am reminded of the stolen starship in Restaurant At The End of the Universe, with its black on black on black within black theme. It still sounds rather fab, though.
 
I heard it briefly at Bristol and thought it would strip walpaper, but hey, shows are no place to make a considered judgement on kit really. The older casing was very attractive, but the new one looks like a Sky+ box...
 
JohnDuncan:I heard it briefly at Bristol and thought it would strip walpaper, but hey, shows are no place to make a considered judgement on kit really. The older casing was very attractive, but the new one looks like a Sky+ box...

Correct on both counts IMHO. Put it with the right kit in the right room, and I think it will sound very good. I am not experienced enough to go further in my analysis...I'll leave that up to you guys (I will be very interested to read the review when published). Suffice it to say, it made me smile, but how it stacks up to the competition...? Appearance-wise? Well, all things change, but a Sky+ box seems as good as any comparison. Not a hit with me, obviously, but when it comes down to it, I wouldn't be staring at the box whilst listening (I'm not quite that 'special').
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JohnDuncan:And the older SD Sky box an' all, not the more attractive HD one...

Maybe LA can provide a nice opaque plastic bag to put over it or maybe even sell an optional extra 'Pimp My Pulse' fascia?
 
Thanks for the reviewing ESP - some interesting thoughts which seem to back up general high opinions of the Leema amplifiers and also the Moon, but Cyrus seems again to sound a bit wanting which is a strange one given it keeps winning WHF awards.
 
Thanks. Yep, surprised me, too. I was expecting different from Cyrus. Maybe a synergy issue? Maybe the room acoustics? I might just give the Cyrus products another chance another day in different circumstances.

But in the final analysis, it is just my perception, based on my own experience and personal taste. We must not lose sight of that. Mind you, unless the chaps from SA and MM were just doing the 'customer is always right nod and agree with everything he says', which I doubt, I think the reactions were fairly unanimous.
 
igglebert:So how's the Primare kit?

Now that would be telling.
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However, suffice it to say I am returning the Leema Pulse 2 at lunchtime. Nice amp, but doesn't really move things on much.

I seriously haven't had time to give the Primare kit a proper workout with a range of music, but what I did hear on Friday evening was very promising - some definite changes for the better. I am intending to spend Thursday evening taking a good listen and doing any optimisation (tweaking) that new core items may, or may not, require.

I will post my thoughts as soon as I am able afterwards.
 

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