A review of 6 CDPs with a budget of £3k

[millerman]

I have been looking to upgrade my NAD 542 CDP with something to match my newly acquired Musical fidelity M6 amp. Being new to hifi, but not music, I have been happy to listen to any advice wherever I can get (thanks WHF forum for this) one comment from a series audiophile was “this is the most important piece of kit to buy so make sure you do some serious listing before buying” So I went to two shops with a budget of £3k.

My intent was to listen to a number of CD players through high end kit to determine their capability then I would choose the best from each session to compare through my home kit. The first test was between

Cyrius CDxtse/DAC X - Linn Akurate --- Naim CDS3/XPS2

The Naim was the clear winner it just sounded so musical and together. I stopped listening to the various instruments in favour of the whole sound. Two or three times I reminded myself of this but kept getting draw into the music. However, this CDP is out of my price range and therefore had to go for my second choice which was the Linn. My only reservations here was that it sounded very clean almost technical, but the detail was very apparent and it shone when I put on Nickleback bringing the punch out from the guitars and drums beautifully.

The Second session I reviewed Ayon cd-1 and 2 and Musical fidelity M6. No competition here. The Ayon CD-2 put the music together like the Naim did and although it is still outside my budget the road test was worth pursuing further. The bass note piano sound on Spiegel im Speigel was just massive and emotive. Frankly it left the other two CD players for dead and yet both these CDP sounded terrific in their own right. So I now have a play off between the Ayon CD-2 and the Linn Akurate on my home kit.

My home kit is a Musical Fedelity M6 amp with Schonberg speakers. My nervousness was would the CDs react in the same way as they did in the shop. Test music ranged from classical (piano, choral and orchestra) to Pink Floyd, Metallica to Radiohead. Within the first few bars of Radiohead (when compared) it was obvious which one was the winner. The sound was as musical on my kit as it was in the shop. However, I have developed a theory that your ears just get used to the sounds and therefore can compensate for what you want to hear rather than what you are hearing. ( a bit like a smell in a room after a while it becomes unnoticeable) so I asked my teenage daughter to listen to the test. Again within a few bars her words were the sound on one player is bigger and just nicer to listen to. (her hifi is akin to an Awia) Through the range of music the Ayon was bigger, more musical and just so engaging.

So the Linn is going back and I will try to get the Ayon cd-2 at a price I can live with. As for the little NAD I have been previously using, well, even in an unfair contest with these two players it still did remarkably well, sure it lacked the detail and space of its two formidable adversaries but for a tenth of the price it showed what a fantastic player it is. So it will begin a new life in a different room along with the NAD amp.

regards

 

[Anonymous]

sounds nice to have that choice! Never heard of Ayon, where are they from?

will you be passing the Nad kit on to your daughter?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

millerman:

I have been looking to upgrade my NAD 542 CDP with something to match my newly acquired Musical fidelity M6 amp. Being new to hifi, but not music, I have been happy to listen to any advice wherever I can get (thanks WHF forum for this) one comment from a series audiophile was "this is the most important piece of kit to buy so make sure you do some serious listing before buying" So I went to two shops with a budget of £3k.

My intent was to listen to a number of CD players through high end kit to determine their capability then I would choose the best from each session to compare through my home kit. The first test was between

Cyrius CDxtse/DAC X - Linn Akurate --- Naim CDS3/XPS2

The Naim was the clear winner it just sounded so musical and together. I stopped listening to the various instruments in favour of the whole sound. Two or three times I reminded myself of this but kept getting draw into the music. However, this CDP is out of my price range and therefore had to go for my second choice which was the Linn. My only reservations here was that it sounded very clean almost technical, but the detail was very apparent and it shone when I put on Nickleback bringing the punch out from the guitars and drums beautifully.

The Second session I reviewed Ayon cd-1 and 2 and Musical fidelity M6. No competition here. The Ayon CD-2 put the music together like the Naim did and although it is still outside my budget the road test was worth pursuing further. The bass note piano sound on Spiegel im Speigel was just massive and emotive. Frankly it left the other two CD players for dead and yet both these CDP sounded terrific in their own right. So I now have a play off between the Ayon CD-2 and the Linn Akurate on my home kit.

My home kit is a Musical Fedelity M6 amp with Schonberg speakers. My nervousness was would the CDs react in the same way as they did in the shop. Test music ranged from classical (piano, choral and orchestra) to Pink Floyd, Metallica to Radiohead. Within the first few bars of Radiohead (when compared) it was obvious which one was the winner. The sound was as musical on my kit as it was in the shop. However, I have developed a theory that your ears just get used to the sounds and therefore can compensate for what you want to hear rather than what you are hearing. ( a bit like a smell in a room after a while it becomes unnoticeable) so I asked my teenage daughter to listen to the test. Again within a few bars her words were the sound on one player is bigger and just nicer to listen to. (her hifi is akin to an Awia) Through the range of music the Ayon was bigger, more musical and just so engaging.

So the Linn is going back and I will try to get the Ayon cd-2 at a price I can live with. As for the little NAD I have been previously using, well, even in an unfair contest with these two players it still did remarkably well, sure it lacked the detail and space of its two formidable adversaries but for a tenth of the price it showed what a fantastic player it is. So it will begin a new life in a different room along with the NAD amp.

regards

Hi millerman

Good post.

I would like to suggest that you also consider the Chord Electronics QBD76 DAC and use the NAD C542 as a transport. The QBD76 is a remarkable product and one that can show many dedicated cd players costing many times more a thing or two. I have used the C542/QBD76 combination extensively and it has worked superbly with all the components that i have used it with (including MF amplification). The connectivity of the QBD76 can also give you the option of listening to non cd based sources.

The QBD76 retails at £2926.38 (satin silver/black) or £3317.87 (jet black/brilliant silver). I have the premium jet black finish with the silver Chord badge, nickel ring, blue light in store and (in addition to the superb build quality) it looks gorgeous. The QBD76 is worth every penny of the £3k and beyond. I truly believe that you too will be impressed with the QBD76.

Btw, i fully agree with you about the NAD C542 in that it is a fantastic player in it's own right.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[millerman]

Fast eddie

I think Ayon are Austrian, they are a new name to me also, but googling for reviews it appears to be very highly regarded. Sound wise its stunning.

My intention with the, now defunct NAD stuff, is to use it in my living room by conecting it to the tele. I was hoping to buy some half decent speakers and get a good second rig but the Ayon has just blown my budget.

However, I will look into what Musicraft has suggested l will research this tonight. Musicraft, what do you mean by using the NAD as a transport. still new to this hifi lark.

Oh and BTW it is very fortunate to be in a possition to buy this stuff I do realise that.

regards all

 

[basshound]

millerman:what do you mean by using the NAD as a transport.

He means use the Nad to play the cd`s and connect it to the Dac and then the Dac to your amp.This way the Dac in the Nad is bypassed and the Chord dac takes care of the D/A conversion.

 

[Anonymous]

actually musicraft has a good point

why not also consider the naim dac also since you liked the sound of the naim cd player

 

[Anonymous]

Thaiman is very knowelgeable on the higher priced cdp's ... am sure he will give advice and his recommendations shortly when he reads this post

 

[MUSICRAFT]

basshound:millerman:what do you mean by using the NAD as a transport. He means use the Nad to play the cd`s and connect it to the Dac and then the Dac to your amp.This way the Dac in the Nad is bypassed and the Chord dac takes care of the D/A conversion.

Hi basshound

Thank you.

millerman, simply use the SPDIF digital output from the back of the C542 using something like Van Den Hul's Videolink (which is ideal) and plug it into one of the two SPDIF inputs on the QBD76 for digital to analogue conversion. With the QBD76 you can select listening in real time, minimum 1 second buffer or for the best performance (for most people) the maximum 4 second buffer. Particularly with the 4 second buffer engaged simply sit back and enjoy the performance!

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

one off:

actually musicraft has a good point

why not also consider the naim dac also since you liked the sound of the naim cd player

Hi one off

Thank you and yes the Naim DAC is also worth considering although i believe that the QBD76 will be better suited with the MF amplifier.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[millerman]

Ok so I need to do some more research. firstly I need to know what the technlogy options are. Up until now I thought to play music you need a CD player, ahem, also I thought those Ipod things are ok inm gyms but give the compressed source a wide birth.

So, can you someone tell me where I can learn about the options availabe

and, if I go for the suggestions here what advnatage will this give me over a CD player.

thanks for all the responses I am enjoying the learning.

regards all

 

[Anonymous]

seems a shame to spend so much cash and not get SACD.

 

[millerman]

Kevin

The Linn I tested was indeed SACD compliant. What I heard was a one cd player producing a far superior sound to the Linn. So even if all CDs were SACD compliant, the sound is the sound, surely! or am I missing something.

Also I have a blueray player would this not cover this area?

I would value your challenge here because whilst I understand the logic it didnt seem to match the end result.

regards

 

[Anonymous]

Millerman,

A CD player is not the only way to play CD's, as you are finding out. There are two parts to the CD player - the transport and the DAC. The vast majority combine both parts into one box, but some separate them into two different boxes (you will already have tried this separated combination in the form of the Cyrus). The transport takes the digital data from the CD. The DAC takes the information from the transport, and turns digital signals into analogue, which in turn are sent to your speakers, via an amp.

I would suggest the first thing you might want to do is stop thinking of your CD containing music - it doesn't, it contains digital data. It's extraction is now commonplace on any device that has a CD-drive, e.g. your computer. Without going into huge detail, the business of extracting the data is very straightforward and has been for years regardless of the price of the CDP. There is of course the question of the quality of the transport mechanisms - are they accurate and do they provide longevity? Are they satisfying to use? It is likely that the vast majority of CD player manufacturers are not using proprietory technology, but third party, i.e. the hardware comes from Philips, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic etc.

Your options:

[*]Buy an integrated CD player
[*]Buy a CD player in two parts - Transport and DAC
[*]Use your existing player as a transport. If you have an optical connection, you can bypass the DAC in your player. Given that the transport in your CD player is likely more than adequate, you can then connect an optical cable to an external DAC, which in turn connects to your amp. You could demo different DAC's to see how or if the sound is affected. As with anything audiophile, a chip worth only a few quid gets turned into something that can cost thousands, so try a range before you buy.
[*]A completely different way of doing things is to rip your CD's to a computer hard drive. You can do this using ripping s/w. A good ripping s/w will compare your ripping to the ripping of others who have also ripped the same CD. In this way, you can be sure your ripping has been done perfectly. (Via a thing called a checksum). You do not have to compromise the quality of your files, as they can be done in lossless. You can then connect your hard drive to a music streamer, which in turn is connected to an amp.

I prefer option 4 - it has given me a better sound than any CD player.

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble.

 

[Anonymous]

Great advice from cable lover. I've taken a similar route to his fourth option and wouldn't go back to CD players again. The other good thing about going the external DAC route is that you can connect other digital sources to the DAC for great sound from those too.

One thing is for sure, there are more options to spending 3K on a CDP.

 

[millerman]

cable lover

Thanks for your post it was incredibly helpful. I now understand the option suggested earlier.

I will now go back and compare the QBD76. Just one question. I have been reading endless reviews lately and one thing that I have picked up is there is no reference point. for eg reviews on the NAD cd player states it is an excellent player. reviews on the Ayon also states it is an excellent player. But they are in different leagues. NO reviews, at least that I can see makes any meaningful reference to their level.

So my question is; the spec on the QBD implies that it is the best DAC in the world, if this is true then would it compare to the best cd player in the world?

Or is this apples and pears

Once again many thanks to all wo have helped me

 

[chebby]

millerman:So my question is; the spec on the QBD implies that it is the best DAC in the world, if this is true then would it compare to the best cd player in the world?

Chord also make a CD player with built in QBD76 technology.

A phone call to them might help clear up your question.

I don't actually agree that any old CD transport is going to get the best out of something like the Chord DAC (or any other decent DAC) if used as a two-box CD player set-up. Nor is it true (at the level of Chord DACs or the new Naim DAC for example) that the electronics only cost a few quid. At this level there is a lot of 'proprietary' technology being used. Not just a fancy box.

(QBD = Quarter-back DAC)

 

[Anonymous]

millerman:

I have been reading endless reviews lately and one thing that I have picked up is there is no reference point. for eg reviews on the NAD cd player states it is an excellent player. reviews on the Ayon also states it is an excellent player. But they are in different leagues. NO reviews, at least that I can see makes any meaningful reference to their level.

yes you're quite right. Reviews are always heavily loaded with positives. 'Excellent', 'dynamic', 'involving', etc etc. Usually a faint criticism somewhere, immediately balanced with an encouraging follow-up comment . Maybe the manufacturers only send their best kit for review. Don't know.

 

[Anonymous]

millerman:

cable lover

Thanks for your post it was incredibly helpful. I now understand the option suggested earlier.

I will now go back and compare the QBD76. Just one question. I have been reading endless reviews lately and one thing that I have picked up is there is no reference point. for eg reviews on the NAD cd player states it is an excellent player. reviews on the Ayon also states it is an excellent player. But they are in different leagues. NO reviews, at least that I can see makes any meaningful reference to their level.

So my question is; the spec on the QBD implies that it is the best DAC in the world, if this is true then would it compare to the best cd player in the world?

Or is this apples and pears

Once again many thanks to all wo have helped me

Thank you. Despite what has been said, music from a CD is just data, Taking said data off a CD is not rocket science as it once was when it was first invented thirty years ago. The checksum is your friend. Audiofoolery is everywhere!

My setup is to put CD's onto a Hard Drive, saving them as FLAC files. These are bit perfect lossless files. I send the data to a Logitech Squeezebox. I then connect an optical cable from this device to my AVI ADM 9.1 speakers. These have the pre-amp, and amp built in. By bypassing the Squeezebox DAC, I use the AVI DAC instead, which is meant to be pretty good. You could match this arrangement by connecting up separates in the same way.

I am not convinced that cost is the be all and end all of audio kit, more an indicator of a lack of manufacturing scale. A lot of well-known audio companies are quite small affairs in the wider scheme of the economy. So try a few things out, and don't be in a hurry to chuck big money at things like dedicated DAC's. Let your ears guide you. Reviews from magazines are a guide, but if it doesn't sound good to you, don't bother with it. The problem is that psychologically, you see a good review and you assume if it isn't great when you hear it, it's not the kit, it's you.....

 

[millerman]

Hi all

I have just road tested the Ayon against the Chord DAC using my NAD CDP as a transport. The results were very close.

The Ayon had a bigger bottom end sound a warmer feeling the Chord was more precise with more detail and a greater amount of space between the instruments both were very very good.

I opted for the Chord, it was cheaper but I liked the sound, although detailed it kept the music together beautifully.

Next step it to get my interconnectors converted into balanced connections.

Anyway thanks for everyone's help here it was very useful.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

millerman:

Hi all

I have just road tested the Ayon against the Chord DAC using my NAD CDP as a transport. The results were very close.

The Ayon had a bigger bottom end sound a warmer feeling the Chord was more precise with more detail and a greater amount of space between the instruments both were very very good.

I opted for the Chord, it was cheaper but I liked the sound, although detailed it kept the music together beautifully.

Next step it to get my interconnectors converted into balanced connections.

Anyway thanks for everyone's help here it was very useful.

Hi millerman

Congratulations on deciding to go for the Chord Electronics QBD76 DAC.

I am truly glad that you liked it's performance.

Btw, what interconnects are you presently using and what finish/build options have you chosen for the QBD76?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Millerman,

Just came across this thread - couldn't discern whether you already decided to buy the QBD or were still in doubt. In any case, I can really vote in favour of it. I'm using it in combination with Yamaha's entry CD-player (reckoning you would only need a good transport) connected via the VDH Videolink to the QBD. Compared to eg a Cyrus 8SE CD player + PSX-R (a very good CD player, in fact), it gives a much fuller, balanced an weighty presentation. Especially the warmth gives close resemblance to a record player......

In addition, with all the additional inputs (Bluetooth, Optical) you'll open up a wealth of other options like streaming from an Airport Express, Spotify, etc. EnjoY!!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Glad you plumbed for the 76, its absolutely superb and even at the price it's terrific value for money for the sound, especially if you were to try to buy a CD player that could compete with it.

Now get saving for the Chord Blu transport like me!

 

[millerman]

RIck

For my interconnectors, I have Black Rhodium Oratorio 3dc. An interesting enlightenment to cabling. When I first went to upgrade my system I was unhappy with the CD and amp being tested. My comment was that to spend nearly £3k and get so little improvement over my existing set up was a no goer. So we opted to upgrade each component one a time. We started with the amp and immediately this created a bigger difference. My local shop then said let my try a cable for me to listen to. The difference was incredible. More space between the instruments and it brought the vocals 10ft nearer. So I was happy with the cost of a good interconnector.

In answer to the other questions, the point about using an old transporter was mentioned by the shop. A fair point and I wonder if there is an upgrade to have just a transported? The Acid test was always going to be in the listening. and as I said they both performed very well. My choice was based on what I heard. The Bluetooth additionally was of miner interest but maybe this will be useful in time.

There is still something I like about having CDs as opposed to a hard drive, I am also sure that my logic is more on sentimental grounds, but hey what the hell. Music is about feeling is it not.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

crimsondonkey:

Hi,

Glad you plumbed for the 76, its absolutely superb and even at the price it's terrific value for money for the sound, especially if you were to try to buy a CD player that could compete with it.

Now get saving for the Chord Blu transport like me!

Hi crimsondonkey

Have you not got work to go to? Because if you get the Chord Blu transport you won't be going to work as you'll be enjoying listening to the full and jaw dropping potential of the QBD76 too much.

Thanks for your support.

Have a Happy New Year.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Rick,

Belated best Christmas wishes to you and your family. Thanks for all your help and excellent advice this past year. Wishing you every success in the New Year.

Best wishes,

CD