A matter of power amplifiers...

[LDTM]

Greetings forumites!

I’ve been a long time viewer but only just recently plucked up the courage to publically expose my naivety, ignorance and general silliness.

I have in my possession a Yamaha A-S1000 amplifier and matching CD1000 disc player plugged into a pair of Monitor Audio GS20’s. Interconnects and speaker cables are from Ortofon and I have a big shiny blue power cable going into the amp (don’t blame me, the devil made me do it).

I’ve had this kit for about four years but even now it still causes involuntary curving of the mouth and narrowing of the eyes. Nevertheless, whilst ferreting around the internet in search of other like-minded individuals (of which there seem to be relatively few – probably for the best anyway!) I cannot help but wonder if the amplifier is doing true justice to the ‘twins’ as they are affectionately known. I noticed the good Rick at MusicCraft suggested to another forum member that ATC’s pre/power might be a good match and it set me to wondering.

A few virtual wanderings later I had amassed a list of possible units ranging from Accuphase to Hegel, Gato Audio and the new Yamaha A-S3000. Whether this list is simply wishful thinking, however, is a distinct possibility. Still, I always found myself leaning towards products sporting that feature specifically designed for attention-deficient audio-nuts: VU metres. I just can’t help myself, they just look so cool…

And now my friends, to the rub, a few merchants in my part of the world as advertising Onkyo’s flagship power amp (the M5000r) for the rough equivalent of 1,100 pounds and it has me sorely tempted. The thought occurs that I could connect it to the pre-out of my Yamaha, set it on top of my cabinet, open a bottle of (insert favourite poison here) and all would be right with the world. I am particularly interested as reviews seem to be very positive and it has been noted that the amplifier is well suited to any genre. As a rough guide I tend to listen to:

Metal, jazz, classical, opera, pop, folk, country, R&B, punk, J-pop (the devil made me do that too), rock and pretty much anything else I can get my grubby paws on.

The question begs however, would this constitute a respectable ‘upgrade’ or would I be better off continuing to squirrel away what I can for the mean time.

My thanks for suffering though inane ramblings.

Cheers,

LDTM

 

[davedotco]

Worth the money on looks alone......... :cheer:

Go with Plan A and look for a better pre-amp down the line.

 

[Al ears]

Worth the money on looks alone......... :cheer:

Go with Plan A and look for a better pre-amp down the line.

Agree.

Perhaps the P3000R later??

 

[hifikrazy]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

 

[Al ears]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

 

[hifikrazy]

Talking about VU meters, this is what heaven looks like for me...

 

[LDTM]

The matching preamp is definitely being considered, a little OCD of me perhaps but I have a thing for matching kit.

And that monster above... well I can but dream.

I wonder how frantic those needles would move listening to some bonkers power metal like Powerwolf.

Thanks all for the replies.

 

[hifikrazy]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

But in his mind, he never is. But let's leave that fight for another thread.

 

[TrevC]

Yamaha A-S1000 amplifier

it still causes narrowing of the eyes

[EDITED BY MODS - house rules]

 

[TrevC]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

But in his mind, he never is. But let's leave that fight for another thread.

Little point in having extra gain with added distortion then having to attenuate it away again. 8)

A buffer preamp with zero gain might work well.

 

[LDTM]

Arigato gozaimasu :rofl:

Not entirely the meaning I had in mind though

 

[hifikrazy]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

But in his mind, he never is. But let's leave that fight for another thread.

Little point in having extra gain with added distortion then having to attenuate it away again. 8)

A buffer preamp with zero gain might work well.

The stock value of dozens of manufacturers of active preamps just came crashing down as a result of your insights. All cable manufacturers have already been laid waste by you and on the verge of financial collapse, after which high end power amp manufacturers also felt the wrath of your expose and now preamps are not spared. :clap:

 

[TrevC]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

But in his mind, he never is. But let's leave that fight for another thread.

Little point in having extra gain with added distortion then having to attenuate it away again. 8)

A buffer preamp with zero gain might work well.

The stock value of dozens of manufacturers of active preamps just came crashing down as a result of your insights. All cable manufacturers have already been laid waste by you and on the verge of financial collapse, after which high end power amp manufacturers also felt the wrath of your expose and now preamps are not spared. :clap:

But the passive pre market can barely keep up with the huge demand. The power of the internet in action. :dance:

 

[hifikrazy]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

But in his mind, he never is. But let's leave that fight for another thread.

Little point in having extra gain with added distortion then having to attenuate it away again. 8)

A buffer preamp with zero gain might work well.

The stock value of dozens of manufacturers of active preamps just came crashing down as a result of your insights. All cable manufacturers have already been laid waste by you and on the verge of financial collapse, after which high end power amp manufacturers also felt the wrath of your expose and now preamps are not spared. :clap:

But the passive pre market can barely keep up with the huge demand. The power of the internet in action. :dance:

Nope, that's just people fooling themselves that their cheap passive pre performs better than a more costly active pre. To borrow your latest favourite word... pitiful

 

[TrevC]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

But in his mind, he never is. But let's leave that fight for another thread.

Little point in having extra gain with added distortion then having to attenuate it away again. 8)

A buffer preamp with zero gain might work well.

The stock value of dozens of manufacturers of active preamps just came crashing down as a result of your insights. All cable manufacturers have already been laid waste by you and on the verge of financial collapse, after which high end power amp manufacturers also felt the wrath of your expose and now preamps are not spared. :clap:

But the passive pre market can barely keep up with the huge demand. The power of the internet in action. :dance:

Nope, that's just people fooling themselves that their cheap passive pre performs better than a more costly active pre. To borrow your latest favourite word... pitiful

How would a cheap active compare against an expensive passive?

 

[hifikrazy]

So do you have an expensive passive? And how expensive can a passive be anyway?

 

[TrevC]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

Passives are just a glorified volume control / switch box, but if you have enough gain you don't really need an active one.

 

[TrevC]

So do you have an expensive passive? And how expensive can a passive be anyway?

The sky's the limit. There is a stepped transformer one on Ebay for £1795, which is absurd really.

 

[hifikrazy]

So do you have an expensive passive? And how expensive can a passive be anyway?

The sky's the limit. There is a stepped transformer one on Ebay for £1795, which is absurd really.

That I would certainly agree with you, being that it's a glorified volume control / switchbox.

 

[andyjm]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

But in his mind, he never is. But let's leave that fight for another thread.

Little point in having extra gain with added distortion then having to attenuate it away again. 8)

A buffer preamp with zero gain might work well.

The stock value of dozens of manufacturers of active preamps just came crashing down as a result of your insights. All cable manufacturers have already been laid waste by you and on the verge of financial collapse, after which high end power amp manufacturers also felt the wrath of your expose and now preamps are not spared. :clap:

But the passive pre market can barely keep up with the huge demand. The power of the internet in action. :dance:

Nope, that's just people fooling themselves that their cheap passive pre performs better than a more costly active pre. To borrow your latest favourite word... pitiful

Hifi, it is generally accepted that the less links in the chain, the more faithful the final signal will be to the original. Why then is it a good idea to take a line level signal, attenuate it, then boost it back to line level? I get it that phono stages are required for the LP lovers, but can you explain why an active pre amp is needed for line level signals (cd player, streamer etc).

 

[TrevC]

But somebody here said passive preamps are the way to go and active preamps are just a glorified volume control

So they might have done, but they were wrong.

This may not help the OP with his question though.

But in his mind, he never is. But let's leave that fight for another thread.

Little point in having extra gain with added distortion then having to attenuate it away again. 8)

A buffer preamp with zero gain might work well.

The stock value of dozens of manufacturers of active preamps just came crashing down as a result of your insights. All cable manufacturers have already been laid waste by you and on the verge of financial collapse, after which high end power amp manufacturers also felt the wrath of your expose and now preamps are not spared. :clap:

But the passive pre market can barely keep up with the huge demand. The power of the internet in action. :dance:

Nope, that's just people fooling themselves that their cheap passive pre performs better than a more costly active pre. To borrow your latest favourite word... pitiful

Hifi, it is generally accepted that the less links in the chain, the more faithful the final signal will be to the original. Why then is it a good idea to take a line level signal, attenuate it, then boost it back to line level? I get it that phono stages are required for the LP lovers, but can you explain why an active pre amp is needed for line level signals (cd player, streamer etc).

 

[JamesMellor]

+3 , sorry LDTM but if you're looking to get talked out of buying it, you've come to the wrong place

James

 

[hifikrazy]

Andyjm, I share your view that with hifi, the less links the better. But if that's the case, an integrated amplifier will always sound better than a pre/power since it doesn't have to go through another set of interconnects. I don't have the technical explanation why but fwiw, let me share an experience:

About 6 months ago, 3 of us decided to do a preamp comparison. So I brought over my entry level Audio Research tube preamp, my friend brought his DIY passive preamp (which he and his fellow DIYers were adamant was better than active preamps for exactly the reasons that you mention) to the hifi room of another friend who has a Conrad Johnson ACT 2 series 2 tube preamp (which costs USD16500). The preamp fed into monoblock tube power amps of 18 watts each driving high sensitivity Klipsch horn speakers.

As much as I hoped for there to be little difference compared to the CJ, unfortunately this was not so. The CJ was clearly superior with its strong points being it's effortless full bodied sound with excellent palpability. In comparison my ARC sounded bright and less "tubey". The passive preamp just sounded dead and lacking in dynamics as well as sounding less natural (I guess partly due to the other 2 being tube preamps).

OK so this was not a double blind test and the 3 preamps were certainly in very different price ranges, but the 3 of us concurred in our opinion of each preamp. The moral of the story is that the guy with the passive preamp now owns a Conrad Johnson PV15 tube preamp.

 

[TrevC]

Yamaha A-S1000 amplifier

it still causes narrowing of the eyes

[EDITED BY MODS - house rules]

I'll have you know I won a Duke of Edinburgh award for that entirely harmless quip.

 

[LDTM]

Seems that way doesn't it. I'm certainly feeling a want transfrom into a motivation :? .

On the matter of the preamp, the materials I located on the P3000r seem very positive but I was hoping to see a Whathifi? review of it for comparison. I noted what they had to say of the more modest Onkyo stereo integrated units and the words 'lean' appeared more than once (if I recall correctly). Does that imply that they are lacking in bass? I wonder if the same holds true of the P3000r.

I do rather enjoy deep bass and my GS20's provide that quite nicely in a relatively small room.

On another matter entirely, and this one is purely academic: would it be mad/redundant to have say, a tube preamp connected to a solid state power amp?