A Hard lesson to learn about Airplay

[SnowyJohn]

"farsicle - An icicle a long way away..." (with apologies to ISIHAC)

If you live in a built up area it's almost certainly due to to wireless interference. Wi-fi effectively only has three channels to choose from, if you have three or more neighbours in close proximity then you're going to struggle finding a reliable channel to use.

Really? Only 3? So selecting a channel between 1-13 then (as I have tinkered with) doesn't mean there are 13 channels?

If that really is the reason for drop outs, how can it be that I Never have to turn off my Apple router??

 

[The_Lhc]

If you live in a built up area it's almost certainly due to to wireless interference. Wi-fi effectively only has three channels to choose from, if you have three or more neighbours in close proximity then you're going to struggle finding a reliable channel to use.

Really? Only 3? So selecting a channel between 1-13 then (as I have tinkered with) doesn't mean there are 13 channels?

In practice no because the frequencies overlap several channels either side of the one you choose (2 either side I think), generally the recommended channels to use are 1, 6 and 11 because that way you guarantee you won't overlap with someone using another of those three channels (ie someone on channel 1 won't overlap someone on 6 or 11, however some on channel 4 will overlap both 1 and 6 to a certain extent). Many devices will only give you the option of 1, 6 or 11 for this reason.

If that really is the reason for drop outs, how can it be that I Never have to turn off my Apple router??

You may not be experiencing that much interference or possibly your Apple router is pumping out at a higher power than anyone else and they're the ones getting all the problems!

 

[Anonymous]

It's not just the router mentioned above that has problems with Airplay. I have a Pioneer VSX-921-K Receiver. I had a ZyXel NGB334W router and it was impossible to use Airplay on the wifi. Tested on two PC's, one mac and two iPhones, no success. Bought a dlink DIR-615, and Airplay worked straight from the box. But then i started having problemes with my modem disconnecting so lost the internet connection, but Airplay worked great. Will now get a new router because of issues with the dlink router and my ISP. Is it a requirement to have n draft to use AirPlay or can you use b and g draft?

 

[michael hoy]

Currently using BT Homehub 3 and no issues.

 

[RodhasGibson]

Currently using BT Homehub 3 and no issues.

Same here mine works fine [6 devices connected]

 

[AnotherJoe]

My set-up was Pioneer connected by ethernet to homehub (100mb) and using iPad in same room running airplay. So streaming music from iPad directly to AV amp. So all these are in the same room. I measured about 80mbps wifi. That is more than enough for audio.

It is extrememly unlikely you are getting 80Mb/s speed on wifi with mobile devices. It may say it connects at 80Mb/s but the actual throughput will be MUCH lower. Ipad2/Iphone4S wifi throughput is generally only around 15Mb/s and thats within 5m line of sight.

(Still more than enough for Audio - I'm just saying).

 

[AEJim]

In practice no because the frequencies overlap several channels either side of the one you choose (2 either side I think), generally the recommended channels to use are 1, 6 and 11 because that way you guarantee you won't overlap with someone using another of those three channels (ie someone on channel 1 won't overlap someone on 6 or 11, however some on channel 4 will overlap both 1 and 6 to a certain extent). Many devices will only give you the option of 1, 6 or 11 for this reason.

Download a free program like InSSider You can check all the surrounding network frequencies/strengths and pick one that is least likely to clash. This will fix many dropout issues.

Also be aware of things like nearby pylons - the in-laws had a nightmare with Wi-Fi until I moved their router away from an external wall because electricity pylons nearby meant you could barely get a signal 10 feet away - scary!

 

[Anonymous]

Currently using BT Homehub 3 and no issues.

Same here mine works fine [6 devices connected]

Ditto. 2 laptops, 3 android phones when at home, wireless printer, and smart BD and TV. Via the hub my Samsung Galaxy works fine with the telly. Waiting on an optical cable then phone audio output should be fine through the amp. This Apple "it just works" codswallop is just that IMHO.

 

[Anonymous]

On Virgin Media 30mb using the terrible Virgin 'Super Hub', but I don't use any of the router capabilities at all and just connect my Draytek router. Everything works fine beside some facing with Xbox Live and Playstation ports.

Never have problems with AirPlay at all, works pretty flawlessly.

 

[chebby]

On Virgin Media 30mb using the terrible Virgin 'Super Hub', but I don't use any of the router capabilities at all and just connect my Draytek router. Everything works fine beside some facing with Xbox Live and Playstation ports.

Never have problems with AirPlay at all, works pretty flawlessly.

Took VM a long time to come up with firmware for their 'Super Hub' to enable it to be used as a 'dumb' modem though. Then they continued to charge £75 (even to existing customers) for it when upgrading to 30mb.

Now they have dropped the £75 charge, I am thinking up upgrading from 10mb to 30mb. However, my connection has been so reliable (for well over 4 years) that I don't want to 'spook' it

(And VM will be doubling my speed - free of charge - pretty soon.)

Same here with AirPlay. 'Bullet proof' performance so far (via Apple Airport Extreme 802.11n) and that's after 10 months using it daily.

 

[6th.replicant]

...I have BT Infinity broadband with a BT HomeHub 2 Type 'B'...

FWIW, after much ranting and arguing with BT re generally poor broadband/router performance, BT has swapped my HomeHub 2 Type 'B' for a HomeHub 3 (below). Thus far, the latter is infintely more reliable and powerful, and aesthetically pleasing, than the former

 

[Anonymous]

This thread has really wound me up!

How can you expect a manufacturer to compensate you if your network is not up to scratch?

You did the right thing in going back to the retailer, who tested it on their router.

You bought a decent router and the problem was solved.

i can't see the problem, can you?

I'm running AirPlay all day through my Belkin router with 100% reliability.

Martin

 

[Anonymous]

Had it working fine before the firmware came out, simply plugged it into an Internet port (1), disabled a couple of things in the SuperHub interface and it worked. Full 30mb speeds no issues. I've a fair amount of networking experience (professionally and at home), but it really was very easy.

Agreed with above, get a decent router and you'll be quids in. That's why Draytek has always been my preference.

 

[Anonymous]

This isn't a hard lesson to learn about AirPlay as such, more a lesson about network-dependant protocols in general. At the end of the day, if the network is solid then AirPlay, and any other network-dependant feature, will work. Unlike what the topic poster suggests, there isn't a 'fundamental problem' with the AirPlay software.

I had issues with my Virgin Media 'Super' Hub which caused WiFi to drop out, or computer-to-computer file transfers to stall or stop completely even with a full WiFi signal. It also seemed to stop issuing DCHP leases at will, which caused devices on the network to lose their IP addresses on a fairly regular basis, even those which were hard wired. AirPlay would also suffer under this setup.

Since I switched my super hub into dumb modem-mode only, I now use an Apple AirPort Express as my router which has provided a bomb-proof network so far. Coverage seems slightly less than the super hub, but even on 2 out of 4 bars the connection is solid, fast and reliable compared to the full-bar signal I got from the super-hub. AirPlay has been rock solid since.

The trick is to find a router that works well for you - it doesn't have to be a pricey Apple one (although I do recommend them), but anything is better than the terrible freebies that the ISP provides.

 

[chebby]

This isn't a hard lesson to learn about AirPlay as such, more a lesson about network-dependant protocols in general. At the end of the day, if the network is solid then AirPlay, and any other network-dependant feature, will work. Unlike what the topic poster suggests, there isn't a 'fundamental problem' with the AirPlay software.

I had issues with my Virgin Media 'Super' Hub which caused WiFi to drop out, or computer-to-computer file transfers to stall or stop completely even with a full WiFi signal. It also seemed to stop issuing DCHP leases at will, which caused devices on the network to lose their IP addresses on a fairly regular basis, even those which were hard wired. AirPlay would also suffer under this setup.

Since I switched my super hub into dumb modem-mode only, I now use an Apple AirPort Express as my router which has provided a bomb-proof network so far. Coverage seems slightly less than the super hub, but even on 2 out of 4 bars the connection is solid, fast and reliable compared to the full-bar signal I got from the super-hub. AirPlay has been rock solid since.

The trick is to find a router that works well for you - it doesn't have to be a pricey Apple one (although I do recommend them), but anything is better than the terrible freebies that the ISP provides.

Good post. +1

I have had the VM 'Large' cable internet package (currently 10Mbps) for about 5 years now (since it was NTL). For that whole time it has been rock solid and has always provided the whole bandwidth/speed I pay for.

It's so reliable that I work from home with no worries about losing connection. (I have only been forced to go to the office - due to an outage - for one day out of the whole five years.)

For those 5 years I have used the AirPort Extreme 802.11N as my wireless hub. It has great coverage and has - also - never let us down.

We have four computers that all communicate wirelessly (along with the Marantz M-CR603 and the Sony BDP-S370) and the AirPort Extreme + VM cable connection has never missed a beat, even when streaming iPlayer HD material alongside (up to) four of us 'caning' the connection.

I will probably get a VM Super Hub when they double my speed to 20Mbps soon. (April apparently.) Luckily the firmware is now sorted and I will do the same as you and just use it in 'dumb modem' mode with my AirPort Extreme.

 

[Anonymous]

Good choice! The hub seems to be fine in modem-only mode, so it's definately the clunky router-side of things that lets it down.

 

[Anonymous]

Just so you know, I just had a conversation with Denon's tech department after having trouble with my new Network Player and once they decided my issue might be the unit, the next thing out of their mouths was to ask what kind of router I was using. We then went on to have an informative 15 minute phone chat about what routers will and will not work with Airplay. I should mention that this was unprompted and unrelated to my original technical issue. BT Home Hub 3 and Virgin Media were definitely mentioned as the worst offenders (i.e. that they just don't work) and they recommended getting Netgear or Belkin N routers (Apple Airport was mentioned but he just said it was much too expensive for what it does, a fair point).

My point in mentioning this? I think that either I was just incredibly lucky making this phone call to someone knowledgeable and helpful, but its also possible that since you had your initial phone call about this the stereo manufacturers are at least educating their tech staff about this issue and cutting people's issues off at the pass so to speak. I agree this is something which should be clearer in their manuals, but again, I am sure its their sincere hope that BT or similar get their acts together so its not in their best interest to upset.

Wanted to at least report my experience - a good one for once - and that possibly things are better in this regard from the audio manufacturers. Now, to solve Educating people about this issue with crap BT routers? That is a much bigger challenge I think!

 

[kinda]

Hello,

I do think the fact that Sonos uses it's own mesh wireless network, with each Sonos device acting as a repeater strengthening the signal, makes it less prone to wireless dropout issues and wireless router problems. It's one of the reasons I recenly resisted the new Pure products and added more Sonos devices.

Sonos I have found to be very simple and easy to setup with no issues. This has been with different routers and services provided by Virgin and Orange. My iPod Touch conversely had all kinds of issues connecting to my wireless network and getting an address via DHCP. Only when I managed to make it take a static IP did it consistently connect OK to the network.

As others have commented, not sure not sure Apple necessarily have the easiness and reliability factor Sonos has, though I don't doubt others may have found Apple great and had issues with Sonos.

 

[AnotherJoe]

Apple's airplay does not adhere 100% to existing network standards. As with all Apple products - BEWARE.

They try and tie you in to their ecosystem by making their kit ever so slightly uncompatible so you have to go out and buy another one of their boxes (to go with the other ones you didnt really need).

Sound like I'm cynical ? - you bet I am !

 

[jarra]

I have BT Infinity Broadband with the Homehub 3. I now find that I cannot acces the airplay function on my Denon Ceol or stream the music from my ITunes library anymore. Nor can I access my banking details, as I am registed for telephone banking. I can ring the bank OK and and listen to instructions but when I input my customer numbers they are not accepted.

I can do this using my mobile phone or by using a hardwired phone into the BT master socket, but not when using my cordless phones. I phone the BT helpdesk and was told by some guy in India I should change my bank and get a new account. LOL LOL.

Can anyone tell me is there a router I can buy that will work with BT Infinity fibre optic broadband. My Bt account runs out in about 6 months so I will leave then.

 

[bigboss]

I use AirPort Extreme with my BT broadband. Works brilliantly.

 

[michael hoy]

I had the Hub 3 and now the Hub 4, no problems with airplay or anything else.

 

[jarra]

I use AirPort Extreme with my BT broadband. Works brilliantly.

and extremely expensive

 

[steakers]

great bit of advice really appriciate your time and effort i was thinking about airplay but have a BT router , will bear it in mind in the future .

 

[daveh75]

Can anyone tell me is there a router I can buy that will work with BT Infinity fibre optic broadband. My Bt account runs out in about 6 months so I will leave then.

Any router with a WAN port and that handles PPPoE, generally referred to a cable routers.

The Asus RT-N66U or RT-AC66U are about the best on the market right now.

If they're a bit rich then i'd suggest looking at TP-Link who make well spec'd more affordable routers, I have an WDR3600 and its been rock solid.