A discrete and well-integrated system for retirees

[mrbarnett12345]

My dad finally replaced his CRT lump late last year with a Panasonic Viera TX-L32E6B, and a lovely little set it is too. The sound from the Phillips CRT was tolerable, if underwhelming, but this flat panel sounds predictably awful.

As his 65th Birthday is fast approaching, I had decided to tool him up with a decent soundbar, based on some requirements:
- Seamless integration - HDMI-CEC needs to be relied upon to handle on/off and volume from the TV remote, input switching a bonus
- High fidelity - speakers should clearly pull vocals apart from background music in stereo, bass should be subtle and balanced (no window shaking), three channels is a must for clear dialog when available
- Discrete - hardware should not have a physical presence and take up as little space as possible

After much searching and auditioning, I have decided there simply isn't a soundbar or soundbase that fulfils all the criteria. The Yamaha YSP-2200 is good, but still has an ungainly black subwoofer, is very wide (compared to a 32" TV) and costs £600.

If I have to spend that sort of money, I don't want to compromise, so have decided that a discrete A/V setup is the way forward.

And what a relief! The Marantz NR1504 (£229) exceeds technical requirements, can deliver sweet sound, has a low profile, and also blends in if bought in silver.

Ideally, I'd pair it to similar speakers as my system (Cambridge Audio S30+S50) to push clarity at low volumes. They'd also eliminate a sub, which is great. But their cottage is very old and space is at a premium so that won’t work.

The CA Minx Min11/21 are really jumping out with blanket praise. I realise these do not dig down far, but a complete system including the X200 sub, which is refreshingly bijou and subtle in white, will blow my budget.

I will go to Richer Sounds to audition them, but would appreciate some honest opinion before being hit by sales spiel. I have also had some bad experiences with RS not setting systems up properly, so would be dubious about what I hear.

Would a Min21 centre with Min11 fronts without sub be disastrous for two people who are not interested in rumbling bass-filled movies, or dub reggae? Will male voices feel hollow with a 120hz bottom end? I find my S30’s 55hz bottom to be more than sufficient 95% of the time, and I’m a big fan of bass.

I have a reel of superfluous QED speaker cable, so I could get a receiver + Min11x2 + Min21 for £450. If this isn’t a sonic disaster, Dad could get a X200 sub at some point in the future, if he saw fit.

However, there are discounts for buying the Minx as a complete 5.1, and Richer Sounds often have 10% off deals. I could probably sell the two unused rear Min11s for £80-£100. So I could potentially get a receiver + Min11x3 + X200 for £570-£590. Less than the Yamaha YSP-2200, but still too much really.

Tricky... :?

 

[TnA200]

mrbarnett12345,

Did you get a chance to check out the Philips 9100? It received 5 Stars and the wireless surround sound could be handy for when dad wants to enjoy a movie and put away for regular TV... Just an idea.

http://www.whathifi.com/review/philips-htl9100

Best of luck.

 

[mmg]

From the ones I have heard I would recommend a Sonos PlayBar or Canton DM50. Both are very good for music and dialog, have good bass withouth shaking the windows like you say and can be tuned with an equalizer. The Canton has more connection options and is more discreet, since it's a soundbase rather than a soundbar.

 

[John Duncan]

I have the same TV and am using a stereo amp with Diamond 9.1s above and to the left and right. I take the digital out from the TV to the StreamMagic and thence to the amp.

I have no issues with dialogue whatsoever, and if you turn on the fake surround on the TV it can give a decent sense of space outside the plane of the speakers if that's your bag, though it's not as effective as 5.1 by any means.

Therefore, is it worth considering the Marantz receiver (which is indeed gorgeous) with a pair of speakers like Dali Zensor 1s either side of the telly? Seems like a reasonable compromise, and you have the flexibility to augment with centre and/or sub at a later date if you feel it necessary?

 

[John Duncan]

Apologies, you've ruled out normal sized speakers, even of the Dalis' size.

The PlayBar sounds *great* (even without sub) but I myself would rule it out for lack of HDMI, despite it being a Sonos, with all that that brings to the table. It also may be a bit wide for your tastes. It will, however, do what you ask of it and a bit more.

 

[mrbarnett12345]

I ruled out Optical connected devices as the Panasonic has no setting to silence its own speakers (aside from a 'hotel mode' hack). The remote wouldn't turn it on/off either (unless the device can be programmed) and I can hear my mum complaining about the complication already. Also, most TVs don't pipe HDMI 5.1 out of their optical either, so Blu Rays would be 2.0.

That rules Sonos and Canton out, despite sounding good. The Philips has rears, which won't get used often, but no centre. It's also wide.

So yeah, I'm difficult to please, but am pretty sold on the Matantz AV receiver. I just wonder if I could honestly get away without a sub or if it'd sound like an (expensive) joke?

It's tiddling down with rain, so I might spend the afternoon applying high pass filters to clips on my computer and hearing the results at various listening levels - how sad is it that that is an exciting proposition? 8)

 

[John Duncan]

Well CA recommend crossing them over at 140hz, which is not very low at all, and putting a full bandwidth signal through them is, I expect, going to limit their efficacy quite badly.

 

[mmg]

I ruled out Optical connected devices as the Panasonic has no setting to silence its own speakers (aside from a 'hotel mode' hack). The remote wouldn't turn it on/off either (unless the device can be programmed) and I can hear my mum complaining about the complication already. Also, most TVs don't pipe HDMI 5.1 out of their optical either, so Blu Rays would be 2.0.

The hotel mode actually works really well. It's not a hack, it's just a hidden menu. I've used it a couple of times, and it works just as well as with other brands where it is available in the regular menu.

You make a good point about the 5.1, although this isn't really important if you don't have a 5.1 setup. Most Panasonic TVs do pass trought the 5.1 on their optical out (or they have a menu setting that enables you to do so). I would verify this before writing off optically connected devices.

 

[John Duncan]

This one doesn't, as I found through extensive experimentation last week. The sources can be set to multichannel and the TV still recognises them, but the optical out is downmixed to 2.0, except on the internal TV tuner, which can be configured to pass through Dolby 5.1 or PCM stereo.

 

[byakuya83]

I have a Sony HTXT1. It's controlled via HDMI and has a variety of settings, one especially for the elderly - that's according to the manual. The audio can be adjusted in many ways to enhance dialogue etc. Seems ideal, especially in a space-saving way.