7.1 Home Cinema: Quality vs Features vs Price

[admin_exported]

Hi

So here's the thing - I want a good screen, a good amp and a good set of 7.1 speakers that can fill a large room, but I don't want to pay for features I won't use.

It seems to me that the more you pay the more features each of these components has. TVs and amps can now stream music and movies from the net; your network; external USB drives or iPods. Amps have so many inputs: 6+ HDMI inputs; component; RGB; optical, and multiple outputs including upscaled HDMI, VGA etc. TVs also have multiple HDMI inputs, which seems pointless as you have so many on the amp already.

When you compare an entry level amp (say a Sony STR-DA2400ES for £500) to one at a higher price point (say a Sony STR-DA5400ES for £1400), both get 5 stars in their review. But the 5400ES is nearly 3 times the price, so will it sound 3 times as good? In fact its only 20W per channel more powerful (120W vs 100W), so will it only sound 20% better. OK - before you get started, I know power does NOT equal quality, but my point is - surely most on the sonic components in these two boxes are the same, so am I just paying for things I won't use?

I haven't bought anything yet, but my future system will look like this:

• 40" screen
• 7.1 amp
• 7.1 speakers
• CDs / DVDs / Blu-ray signal will come from a single separate player
• TV signal will come from a Freesat PVR
• Network media player for streaming movies and music

My room is a large open plan lounge / kitchen. 10m long by 5m wide, with a vaulted ceiling 5m high and thick wooden beams - approx 190m-cubed in volume. The floor is slate. The walls are 3 solid block walls with a hollow stud wall behind the TV. There are some soft furnishing around and plants etc.

My budget is something like this:

• TV - up to £2000
• Amp - up to £2000
• Speakers - up to £3000 in total (£1000 front floor standers; £500 each for side, rear, centre and sub-woofer)
• Cables - +10%

Bearing in mind the large volume of the room, will I be forced to pay for features I won't use in order to get a big enough sound to fill the room? And how can I maximise the qualityrice ratio?

I'm looking to buy over the next 2 months - What are your recommendations?

 

[Frank Harvey]

A £500 amp compared to a £1500 amp can be a huge difference. I usually class upgrade sections as follows:

Up to £500/600 - nice balance of features and quality, power adequate (AVR1911/TXSR608)

£600-1,000 - more features, slightly more power, better build quality (VXS920/TXSR708)

£1000-1500 - a few more features, more power, better quality (RXV2095/AVR3311)

£1500+ - as good as it gets, a few more features, more power, better quality (SCLX82/DSPZ7 upwards)

That's just a generalisation, but you get the idea. I'd normally recommend most people to jump from the entry level into the 3rd price bracket, that ensures quite an upgrade which is well worth making. I recently moved from a £1400 amp to a £2000 one and the difference is night and day.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks.

And do you have a recommendation for an amp / 7.1 speaker combo for my big / high room?

I'm looking at a Sony 5400ES with B&W 683 fronts, 685 sides and rears, HTM61 centre and ASW610XP sub.

The side and rear speakers will be on shelves between the beams, in the middle and at the far end of the room. Not perfect for the cinema experience I know, but the idea is that it will be a real party room with sound coming from all corners when we have friends over.

Budget for amp and speakers is prob £5000...

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'm not familiar with the Sony amps at present as we are just setting up an account, but from past experience I never got on with their AV amps. I'm also not a great lover of B&W's 600 series.

If it was my money, and I'll repeat that for those that read way too deep into things - MY money, I'd look at a Yamaha DSPZ7 or a Pioneer SCLX82, which would leave a good £3.5k for speakers. Your room sounds like our showroom (except being on the third floor it's a suspended floor). With it being a slate floor, whic will be quite reflective, and the fact that the speakers will need to be driven a little harder than in the average living room, I'd look at smoother speakers. The Monitor Audio RX series will be a good starting point. This will fit inside your budget with enough left over for a seond sub - you're going to need it!

 

[Anonymous]

MillenniumDom:

Hi

So here's the thing - I want a good screen, a good amp and a good set of 7.1 speakers that can fill a large room, but I don't want to pay for features I won't use.

It seems to me that the more you pay the more features each of these components has. TVs and amps can now stream music and movies from the net; your network; external USB drives or iPods. Amps have so many inputs: 6+ HDMI inputs; component; RGB; optical, and multiple outputs including upscaled HDMI, VGA etc. TVs also have multiple HDMI inputs, which seems pointless as you have so many on the amp already.

When you compare an entry level amp (say a Sony STR-DA2400ES for £500) to one at a higher price point (say a Sony STR-DA5400ES for £1400), both get 5 stars in their review. But the 5400ES is nearly 3 times the price, so will it sound 3 times as good? In fact its only 20W per channel more powerful (120W vs 100W), so will it only sound 20% better. OK - before you get started, I know power does NOT equal quality, but my point is - surely most on the sonic components in these two boxes are the same, so am I just paying for things I won't use?

I haven't bought anything yet, but my future system will look like this:

• 40" screen
• 7.1 amp
• 7.1 speakers
• CDs / DVDs / Blu-ray signal will come from a single separate player
• TV signal will come from a Freesat PVR
• Network media player for streaming movies and music

My room is a large open plan lounge / kitchen. 10m long by 5m wide, with a vaulted ceiling 5m high and thick wooden beams - approx 190m-cubed in volume. The floor is slate. The walls are 3 solid block walls with a hollow stud wall behind the TV. There are some soft furnishing around and plants etc.

My budget is something like this:

• TV - up to £2000
• Amp - up to £2000
• Speakers - up to £3000 in total (£1000 front floor standers; £500 each for side, rear, centre and sub-woofer)
• Cables - +10%

Bearing in mind the large volume of the room, will I be forced to pay for features I won't use in order to get a big enough sound to fill the room? And how can I maximise the qualityrice ratio?

I'm looking to buy over the next 2 months - What are your recommendations?

Hi first good move asking for recommendations before taking the plunge

But the 5400ES is nearly 3 times the price, so will it sound 3 times as good? In fact its only 20W per channel more powerful (120W vs 100W), so will it only sound 20% better

upgrading has a rule of diminishing returns , so 2 to 3 times the price does not equate to double treble the improvement

Davids suggestion of

Quote I'd normally recommend most people to jump from the entry level into the 3rd price bracket, that ensures quite an upgrade which is well worth making is on sound principals

You have a large room and need to be sure the amp you choose can fill it , perhaps an amp certified to THX Ultra would suit , from Pioneer , Onkyo ,

The room description and build suggests you are going to have problems with reflections , at the risk of being boring do not underestimate the influence the room will have on your system .

There is opinion the the room contributes 50-60 % of how your system will sound and people have spend loads of money on upgrading when the best and cheapest investment was addressing the room., and no I am not suggesting covering your beautiful floors

What I do suggest is researching room acoustics , first place to look is on the Gecko website excellent articles on this subject

Regards

Andy

 

[Frank Harvey]

The only drawback Andy is that you can't really say how the system will perform until it's in situ. Then you can look at which parts of the room are causing poblems, and then find a way to deal with them. Although the floor will be reflective, the beams will break up a lot of reflections, which will help. There are basic things people can do which don't cost much, and in some cases nothing, to help their system sound better. This will all be part and parcel of the service of a good dealer.

I do think that recommending researching room acoustics to first timers can put them off. They probably think th whole thing is daunting enough as it is, and then they're told their room will sound naff. I'm not criticising, but it can be a little much for some people.

In response to that, the first place I worked at had a really awkward demo room. Bass was everywhere, and nothing sounded good in it. But one thing I did notice, was th better equipment sounded better in there. This was because better speakers and amplification had better control of the bass, so the main issue wasn't as apparent. I'm not playing down how much affect rooms have on hi-fi and AV, but just making a point that better equipment does help in these situations.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks (both).

What I think I'll do is bring my current (15-year old) hifi into the space to see how it reacts. We don't move in for a couple of weeks, so that will give me time to listen to some B&W 683s and some MA RXAVs. I'll also try and have a listen to some satellite / subwoofer systems that Gecko seems to recommend.

I hadn't considered a satellite system before, as I though I'd get problems with mid-range and lack of musicality. I guess that discussion is for another post though...

Thanks again.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

The only drawback Andy is that you can't really say how the system will perform until it's in situ. Then you can look at which parts of the room are causing poblems, and then find a way to deal with them. Although the floor will be reflective, the beams will break up a lot of reflections, which will help. There are basic things people can do which don't cost much, and in some cases nothing, to help their system sound better. This will all be part and parcel of the service of a good dealer.

I do think that recommending researching room acoustics to first timers can put them off. They probably think th whole thing is daunting enough as it is, and then they're told their room will sound naff. I'm not criticising, but it can be a little much for some people.

In response to that, the first place I worked at had a really awkward demo room. Bass was everywhere, and nothing sounded good in it. But one thing I did notice, was th better equipment sounded better in there. This was because better speakers and amplification had better control of the bass, so the main issue wasn't as apparent. I'm not playing down how much affect rooms have on hi-fi and AV, but just making a point that better equipment does help in these situations.

Absolutely agree David , when looking into acoustics it is very daunting , but as the OP had indicated hard floors and walls this will create reflections and I felt awareness was necessary , he can do with it what he will ,but as you said it can be tamed at minimal cost by treating the first reflection points.

If a user is happy just to set out his speakers and sub switch it on sit down and watch movies fine , but giving some consideration to speaker and seating placement within the room dimensions can bring real benefits to a system , for free

50-60% room influence is quite significant , the effect on bass and subwoofers is marked , most recommendations is to plonk it down anywhere or in a corner , a sub is the hardest thing to position correct.

Also having your seating in a null or hard against the back wall is going to spoil a good system , no matter what the cost