1st Hi-Fi Set Up...A few questions

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I've recently taken the plunge into the magical world of hifi, and am in the process of putting the finishing touches on my first set up and would love some advice. I'm currently running a musical fidelity x-150 integrated out to infinity primus 150s via canare 4S11 cables. My audio sources are a remodded pioneer PL10 turntable with shure m97xe cartrige (purchased off Audiogon) which came with MIT interconnects, and FLAC files played through my macbook using a audioquest dragonfly USB DAC. Bought everything used (except for the mac, which I already owned), and it ran me around ~1000. This set up has served me well for several months now, but the infinitys jsut weren't putting out enough low end and I decided to add a sub. Grabbed a Miller and Kriesel VX-4 (old, but in great shape) off of ebay for under 100 (I'm already well over my initial budget) and am having some difficulty with it. The x-150 only has LR speaker outs, no sub line, so I'm forced to go through the high level inputs. The problem here is the vx-4 only has spring clip connections, no 5-way posts, so I'm unable to use my canares (spade terminations) to connect back to my speakers. I have some monoprice 12awg speaker wire I planned on using to run to the sub, but I'm unsure of how to configure everything properly. My solution for now has been to connect both my canares (for infinitys) and monoprice cables (for sub) to the same binding post. I'm worried that in doing this there will not be enough contact with the spades.

Long intro, I know. Here are my questions:

-Am I better off just using the monoprice cable (bare wire) to connect to the sub and then run the high level outs from the sub to my speakers? This would forgoe using my canares, which is fine, but I spent 60 bucks on em and don't want them to go to waste.

-Is it advisable to connect the two cables I have so that both have a solid connection on the same binding post? Right now my connection does not seem very secure, but I'm also wary of overtightening the posts. With spades and bare wire is this even possible?

-If my connection currently is not recieving enough contact or whatever, how would that manifest itself in the sound? I've noticed the infinitys by themselves sound a bit more anemic, and the mid-to-upper frequency range (piano, female vocals) sounds less present.

-Once I get everything set up right, what would be the best setting for the LPF on my sub? The frequency range on the infinitys goes down to 58hz (+-3).

Thanks for taking the time to read all this, I know it's a little long winded, but it's my first post and I wanted to be as detailed as possible. Any other comments, suggestions, questions on my set up are more than welcome. I've been completely on my own putting all this together, so I'd love to know what knowledgable people on here think

Best,

Nolan

 

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Reposting for interest. Really would appreciate a little feedback.

 

[steve_1979]

-Once I get everything set up right, what would be the best setting for the LPF on my sub? The frequency range on the infinitys goes down to 58hz (+-3).

I don't know about your cable questions, but I can help with this one.

Trial and error is the key. Start by using the crossover set around 60 to 80 Hz and adjust the volume to suit. Subwoofers tend sound best if you don't over do the bass though. They usually sound best when they're only just audible.

 

[davedotco]

-Once I get everything set up right, what would be the best setting for the LPF on my sub? The frequency range on the infinitys goes down to 58hz (+-3).

I don't know about your cable questions, but I can help with this one.

Trial and error is the key. Start by using the crossover set around 60 to 80 Hz and adjust the volume to suit. Subwoofers tend sound best if you don't over do the bass though. They usually sound best when they're only just audible.

Or, as a colleague used to say.......

Turn them up until you can just hear them, then turn them down a notch. Good advice.

 

[davedotco]

Or, as a colleague used to say.......

Turn them up until you can just hear them, then turn them down a notch. Good advice.

IMO there is no perfect balance for all music. What sounds the best for one song isn't always what will sound the best for another song depending how they've been recorded and mastered. With mine I turned the volume knob on the back of the subwoofer up to the loudest it will go with out being able to actually hear it when clicking the subwoofer mute button off an on. After that I use the digital control on the Yamaha to fine tune it. So...

@ + 0dB it's not audible.

@ +0.5dB some music sounds exactly the same as at 0dB and some slightly better even though it's only just possible to hear a difference. This adds a feeling of more presence and weight rather than obviously changing the sound and this is the setting that I generally use for day to day listening as everything sounds improved over not having a subwoofer at all.

@ +1dB this is the best setting for most music but the problem at this level is that a few songs such as some Rolling Stones sound slightly worse.

@ +1.5dB this is a bit much for most music but some stuff such as AC/DC sounds much better with the bass turned up.

I find that if you can hear the sub at all it is up to high, that said I have never lived with one as expensive as the AVI.

 

[steve_1979]

I find that if you can hear the sub at all it is up to high

Have a play with the bass on a graphic equaliser. A change of +0.5dB is a very tiny amount indeed.

I find that +0.5dB is the best all round setting which works well with all music. It's just enough to 'feel' its presence without really noticing a difference to the sound if you know what I mean.

Beat driven music like most pop and electronic music generally sounds best with +1dB. It gives it a more ballsy fun sound. But with some other music, especially if it has has slower droney noises in the lower mid bass frequencies +1dB can be a bit much.

 

[steve_1979]

that said I have never lived with one as expensive as the AVI.

Most subwoofers are rubbish and have no place in a music system IME. They're usually only worth it for making loud booms and bangs in films.

The AVI one is one of the few that I've heard that's good enough to work well with music. I've heard a few other really good ones too (all over £1000) which work well with music but they're usually silly money and even then you need to partner them with speakers that also have well controlled non boomy bass or it won't sound right.

Check out Quested's and Genelec's 2.1 systems for around £3000 - £4000 if you want to hear what a really good, well sorted 2.1 system can do.

 

[steve_1979]

Or, as a colleague used to say.......

Turn them up until you can just hear them, then turn them down a notch. Good advice.

IMO there is no perfect balance for all music. What sounds the best for one song isn't always what will sound the best for another song depending how they've been recorded and mastered. With mine I turned the volume knob on the back of the subwoofer up to the loudest it will go with out being able to actually hear it when clicking the subwoofer mute button off an on. After that I use the digital control on the Yamaha to fine tune it. So...

@ + 0dB it's not audible.

@ +0.5dB some music sounds exactly the same as at 0dB and some slightly better even though it's only just possible to hear a difference. This adds a feeling of more presence and weight rather than obviously changing the sound and this is the setting that I generally use for day to day listening as everything sounds improved over not having a subwoofer at all.

@ +1dB this is the best setting for most music but the problem at this level is that a few songs such as some Rolling Stones sound slightly worse.

@ +1.5dB this is a too much for most music but some stuff such as AC/DC sounds much better with the bass turned up.

 

[davedotco]

that said I have never lived with one as expensive as the AVI.

Most subwoofers are rubbish and have no place in a music system IME. They're usually only worth it for making loud booms and bangs in films.

The AVI one is one of the few that I've heard that's good enough to work well with music. I've heard a few other really good ones too (all over £1000) which work well with music but they're usually silly money and even then you need to partner them with speakers that also have well controlled non boomy bass or it won't sound right.

Check out Quested's and Genelec's 2.1 systems for around £3000 - £4000 if you want to hear what a really good, well sorted 2.1 system can do.

I'm familier with the Genelec systems (never heard the Quested with a sub) but only in professional situations.

For various reasons the sub is invariably set far too high, so hopeless from a hi-fi point of view.

Domestically, one of the few subs I liked was an old Audio pro from the 80s, all of the Rels I have heard have been hopeless, the only cheap subs that are even a possibility are the BKs, the 400 model is not at all bad for around half the price of the AVI.

At some point I really need to hear the AVI system, I have no prospect of buying AVI speakers at the moment so can't really justyfy wasting their time with a visit to Nainsworth.

I am a big fan of the Unity Audio 'The Rock', with all that lovelt TdP designed amplification and would love to get my hands on the new Pebble and Bam Bam system, not a 2.1 system but a rather interesting 3 way, 2 box system as, with the AVI still unheard, I remain deeply sceptical of 2.1 systems for hi-fi.

 

[steve_1979]

For various reasons the sub is invariably set far too high, so hopeless from a hi-fi point of view.

This is far too often the problem with 2.1 systems. People spend a huge portion of their hifi budget on a subwoofer and they end up with a big box which they think should be making lots of noise. So they're tempted to keep turning it up until they can easily hear a the difference it makes but by then it sounds all wrong because it's much too loud.

Take my system for example. I spent about 50% of the budget on the subwoofer and yet most of the time with most music it makes ****** all differernce. And even with deep bass music such as the Groove Armarda song 'My Firend' the difference is hardly even perceivable. The bass still sound virtually the same as before but with the sub turned on it just has more weight, more slam and a more ballsy feel to the music even though it still sounds almost the same. The speakers do 99% of the work and the sub is just the last 1% icing on the cake. A tiny difference but that 1% extra is only possible to get with a good quality subwoofer (or really massive floorstanding speakers) and in my opinion it's still worth it even though the overall monatary value is questionable considering how little difference it makes for such a big outlay.

People forget just how little audio there is below 80Hz with most music. Hardly any. Probably much less than most people realise and yet for some reason most people get hung up on what they think is sub bass and how much should be present when playing music. Think of it as adding more feel rather than more sound. With a properly set up 2.1 system if you turn the stereo speakers off so that only the subwoofer is playing it's very suprising how little noise will be coming out of it.

 

[steve_1979]

I am a big fan of the Unity Audio 'The Rock', with all that lovelt TdP designed amplification and would love to get my hands on the new Pebble and Bam Bam system, not a 2.1 system but a rather interesting 3 way

I've never heard them but I think there's a review on the Sound On Sound website somewhere.

 

[davedotco]

I am a big fan of the Unity Audio 'The Rock', with all that lovelt TdP designed amplification and would love to get my hands on the new Pebble and Bam Bam system, not a 2.1 system but a rather interesting 3 way

I've never heard them but I think there's a review on the Sound On Sound website somewhere.

I have an interest here as I know the people at Elac, they build the drive units at their Kiel factory and the amps are designed by Tim de Paravicini, who I also knew back in his rock and roll days.

The Rock, (or rock Monitors) are a reasonably chunky nearfield monitor with a very substantial Corian/birch ply cabinet in roughly the same class as the Quested S7r and S8r or the Event Opal. It does not have the massive output of the Opals and is a touch more expensive than the Quested, but at around £2k a pair they are remarkably neutral and open. Careful design means that they do not need a sub for most applications, bass is -3dB at 40 hz and remarkably clean. Very nice indeed.

For what it is worth, they do a hi-fi version, with phono plugs, higher sensitivity and gloss finish.