‘Muddy’ sound using cassette tapes/deck/through quality hi fi components

[Anthony L]

Dear Whathifiers

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why music cassettes (new and 2nd hand) sound ‘muddy’ and lack volume, despite the deck (Akai GXC-709D - fully functional) going through B&W 805D3 speakers and a Primaluna Evo 400
amp. Could it be a ‘simple’ fix like a full service of the deck or is this a common problem? I know the kind of clarity I hear with vinyl is not possible, still, the sound is well below what I expected.
Many thanks in advance

Anthony

 

[Shrek]

Dear Whathifiers

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why music cassettes (new and 2nd hand) sound ‘muddy’ and lack volume, despite the deck (Akai GXC-709D - fully functional) going through B&W 805D3 speakers and a Primaluna Evo 400
amp. Could it be a ‘simple’ fix like a full service of the deck or is this a common problem? I know the kind of clarity I hear with vinyl is not possible, still, the sound is well below what I expected.
Many thanks in advance

Anthony

Try cleaning the cassette head and rollers with a cotton bud and alcohol .

 

[Revolutions]

I had a similar problem on one cassette. Never did work out why.

 

[Al ears]

Get the deck serviced I would suggest as it could be a number of age related things.
Tape heads can wear and go out of alignment etc.
Volume could be down to the output voltage of the deck.
Frequency response of old tapes can degrade but, that said, a well recorded one should not sound "muddy"

 

[Stuart83]

Dear Whathifiers

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why music cassettes (new and 2nd hand) sound ‘muddy’ and lack volume, despite the deck (Akai GXC-709D - fully functional) going through B&W 805D3 speakers and a Primaluna Evo 400
amp. Could it be a ‘simple’ fix like a full service of the deck or is this a common problem? I know the kind of clarity I hear with vinyl is not possible, still, the sound is well below what I expected.
Many thanks in advance

Anthony

It sounds like pardon the pun "dirty/worn heads"l

Going back to the mid 90s to early 00s when djaying I would always record with a few tape decks to sell afterwards amassing a lot of hrs causing the symptoms you describe Via a worn tape deck head that would cause a slow loss of high frequencies, manifesting in a muffled, dull, or "muddy" sound, then the latter stages of wear resulting in complete complete dropouts.

Look for a groove in the head's surface or simply run a fingernail along the head if you feel a ridge it's worn.

How do you tell when heads are worn out?

When I am shopping for used decks, how do I tell if the heads are badly worn? Will there be obvious wear marks? Missing material? I have seen a few very dirty heads but even cleaning them did not remove all the junk. I have passed on many in the last month and I think I need some tips.

audiokarma.org

Preferably though of course these symptoms are also presented when the heads are just dirty which is a free fix

https://www.reddit.com/r/cassetteculture/comments/67p3sf/comment/dgt2bq3

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/cassetteculture/comments/67p3sf/comment/dgt2bq3/


Forgive the obvious and negating the wear of an over played album etc
(Sure I have tapes older than me that play fine but some half the age that have indeed aged that badly they sound plain dull)
But totally ruling out the source is quick and easy enough to do by recording something maybe a CD and playing it back to see if it too sounds duller than expected like the tapes you have.
After all stranger things have happend than getting hold of a few bad tapes at the same time.

Try cleaning the heads first as it's quick and free.
After that if it's a worn head etc then it's off to the parts or repair shop.
I'm unsure if you can/want to tackle it yourself but the "tapeheads" website have most things to get you sorted.

 

[Jasonovich]

As per above comments, some medical alcohol and cotton buds required to clean the heads.
If the problem persists, the magnetic heads may be worn.
Also try copying the music to ferrite plus or metal coated tapes, hopefully you're still able to find it.
Good luck 🤞

 

[Geoff P.]

Hi Anthony - sorry in advance if I'm teaching my Granny to suck eggs.
Are you aware of the Dolby system ( designed to reduce tape hiss ) and it's means if operation ? By boosting the HF during recording, then bringing it back down during playback the tape hiss was reduced ( with varying degrees of success ).
Should you end up playing a non-Dolby cassette with Dolby switched on, the HF cut will still happen but because it wasn't boosted in the first place will end up sounding muddy.
As well as the usual cleaning processes mentioned by others, you could also consider demagnetisation of the recording/playback heads ( an accessory regularly sold by hifi shops back in the day ).
I think that generally, unless you have metal tapes and a Nakamichi deck, the frequency response of cassettes will never match vinyl.

 

[Gray]

...I know the kind of clarity I hear with vinyl is not possible

Then you might be surprised how close the best cassette decks got / get Anthony.

If I remember rightly Akai's 'GX' prefix stood for glass crystal - which was supposed to mean a more durable head.
But all heads wear, especially after exposure to certain tape types.

Take the good advice from all so far, to ensure clean heads and check for wear.

Azimuth alignment is critical to high frequency performance.
You might well find (as is often the case) that your playback head is secured by two screws, one on either side of it.
Probably the lefthand screw will be fixed - but on the righthand side there's a spring under the head mount - which allows for azimuth adjustment via the screw.

You might find there's a small hole specifically for the purpose of adjustment without even opening up the deck*
When playing a pre-recorded tape, use a small Phillips screwdriver to make small adjustments.
As you 'seesaw' the screw clock/anti clockwise you will clearly hear the HF go in and out.
Hopefully yours is out and you can improve it to 'perfection'.

*EDIT:
I've just seen a photo of your Akai.
Looks like you would need to (at least) remove the cassette door to get adjustment access.
But you can be sure that azimuth adjustment will be possible.

 

[davidf]

Any format will aim for a lower general level in order to maintain dynamic range.

 

[Shrek]

If you cant get access to the head this will help you .

 

[Shrek]

After reading this thread i decided i would have a look at my own cassette player when i looked the rubber roller was brown and not black i need to clean the head with some Isopropyl alcohol i cleaned the roller with a toothbrush and a little washing up liquid mix and cotten wool, was not a pleasant sight 🙄

 

[Gray]

After reading this thread i decided i would have a look at my own cassette player when i looked the rubber roller was brown and not black i need to clean the head with some Isopropyl alcohol i cleaned the roller with a toothbrush and a little washing up liquid mix and cotten wool, was not a pleasant sight 🙄

Stick to using alcohol on the pinch roller as well as the heads (move a soaked cotton bud along the rotating roller).
Be sure to separately clean the capstan too.

@Anthony L note that the rec/play head azimuth adjustment screw is the lefthand one of the two in Shrek's photo.
(The green stuff on the screws is what locks them in place).

 

[Stuart83]

Then you might be surprised how close the best cassette decks got / get Anthony.

If I remember rightly Akai's 'GX' prefix stood for glass crystal - which was supposed to mean a more durable head.
But all heads wear, especially after exposure to certain tape types.

Take the good advice from all so far, to ensure clean heads and check for wear.

Azimuth alignment is critical to high frequency performance.
You might well find (as is often the case) that your playback head is secured by two screws, one on either side of it.
Probably the lefthand screw will be fixed - but on the righthand side there's a spring under the head mount - which allows for azimuth adjustment via the screw.

You might find there's a small hole specifically for the purpose of adjustment without even opening up the deck*
When playing a pre-recorded tape, use a small Phillips screwdriver to make small adjustments.
As you 'seesaw' the screw clock/anti clockwise you will clearly hear the HF go in and out.
Hopefully yours is out and you can improve it to 'perfection'.

*EDIT:
I've just seen a photo of your Akai.
Looks like you would need to (at least) remove the cassette door to get adjustment access.
But you can be sure that azimuth adjustment will be possible.

I remember the 3 head GF 65 MK2 Akai my father gifted to me in my early teens that was absolutely use d and abused for yrs.
Your right it could could come close given the right circumstances.

(I wasn't that posh kid at school with the new trainers and best bikes whenever they came out but through my father's hifi hobby I always had decent stereo kit far better than the dreadful sharp etc all-in-one racks the posh kids had 😂
My 70s sansui au-505 with it's load of misinformation online about it's wattage and build yr had it's far underrated 12W's via the mission 760i and Jammys for the occasional systems a&b full volume in a shoe box bedroom lay waste to their upmarket hi-speed dubbing square driver school yard show off machines)

Most of the recordings of terrible hardcore although I must admit also "terribly" catchy hardcore music mix tapes in the entire village and school where from me using it as a slave deck to either my first Soundlab record decks or tape to tape with a Yamaha KX whilst duplicating and upping the DBs or as we hiss knew it "power😂 and sometimes the inherint hiss gained from overdoing it" whilst cleaning up shady recordings of whatever crappy rave tapes were doing the village and school loop.

To mine and my father's dismay my mam took it and a Yamaha deck that rivaled it later known as one of the best 2 head machines in its budget which I do still have to the charity shop in which the Akai had since sold but my old dad promptly rescued the Yamaha.
It's in the loft after I long since ditched tape for my still favourite music media format CDs.
Afterall it was in my generation the shift from tape to CD happened in the mainstream and despite streaming and dac chasing thing it set off I've never found a better source holistically for physical collecting and reliable quality.

The price commanded by both the sansui and Akai second hand makes me 🤢 as I didn't get to hang onto them.

Fond memories set off there I think by the mentioning of the old Akai deck 😁

 

[RoA]

I remember buying a JVC Hifi Nicam VHS recorder a lifetime ago. It immediately replaced a at the time well regarded Technics Tape Deck machine.

Not a format/media I would ever want to go back to, either one.

 

[podknocker]

It still makes me laugh. People fiercely gripping onto dated formats. Streaming has choice, ease of use and high quality sound, but many still want to make their listening a chore and unrewarding. Strange world.

 

[nopiano]

It still makes me laugh. People fiercely gripping onto dated formats. Streaming has choice, ease of use and high quality sound, but many still want to make their listening a chore and unrewarding. Strange world.

The expense and inconvenience has some attractions, but each to their own!

https://imgur.com/PQqGnua

View: https://imgur.com/PQqGnua

 

[podknocker]

The expense and inconvenience has some attractions, but each to their own!

https://imgur.com/PQqGnua

View: https://imgur.com/PQqGnua

I used to love messing around with cassette decks and amps and midi systems back in the day, but the method of delivering music changes and anyone with a sense of progress and an interest in modernity, would relish the chance to try out new stuff. I think my system is incredible and can't see the point of tech from decades ago. These Nakamichi cassette decks don't do anything for me. Bulky, cluttered and fiddly machines and the ultimate sound quality would rank very low compared to modern devices. Any device with the option of adjusting the sound quality is fundamentally flawed. IF the device was an accurate and transparent window to the music, then it wouldn't need Dolby, azimuth changes, cleaning, etc. Cassette and vinyl are inherintly flawed formats. CD is a decimated version of the source file, but much closer to the original recording. My streamer is capable of reproducing the highest quality music files you can find. It won't need adjusting, cleaning and maintaining. It just streams the highest possible digital data and turns this into great sounding music.

 

[Al ears]

It still makes me laugh. People fiercely gripping onto dated formats. Streaming has choice, ease of use and high quality sound, but many still want to make their listening a chore and unrewarding. Strange world.

A pointless post.
Many, like myself, used cassettes to listen to self -recorded material like I had of pub bands that simply aren't available to stream.
Often better to trying to help the OPs with their questions I find......

 

[GroeneLeeuw]

Playing with K7 decks is a bit like wanting a steam car to be your daily driver.

 

[nopiano]

My streamer is capable of reproducing the highest quality music files you can find. It won't need adjusting, cleaning and maintaining. It just streams the highest possible digital data and turns this into great sounding music.

Mine is too! I just like the variety. 🙂

 

[Shrek]

A pointless post.
Many, like myself, used cassettes to listen to self -recorded material like I had of pub bands that simply aren't available to stream.
Often better to trying to help the OPs with their questions I find......

I agree also the fact one doesnt own the music for me this a hobby and collecting and finding what ever format is much more interesting.

 

[Jasonovich]

I agree also the fact one doesnt own the music for me this a hobby and collecting and finding what ever format is much more interesting.

Ah the fun I use to have, back in the day. When the cassette deck gobbled my tape and sitting with some mates, drinking beer while rolling up the tape with a pencil 🙂

I think it's too perfect today, everything just works! Back in the day, we use to share music together but today I listen seriously but always alone. Boring I know but our expectations have changed.

 

[good_enough]

Just my tuppenceworth - I also own a Nak, but a lowly 482Z not the esoterica that @nopiano posts!

I can get superb results, but equally, poor ones. Besides the head and pinch roller treatments already covered (I also use iso alcohol and swabs), consider that cassettes are a fragile medium.

Some coatings were hygroscopic, meaning that they would allow the magnetic material to wear off if allowed to become damp. Also tapes are prone to heat damage and (natch) hate magnetic fields.

I bought my deck because I have a load of old tapes and my Technics bit the dust.

On playing this lot which are pretty damn old (my copy of Talking Heads' 77 was bought in - yes - 77) there are many good, many duds.

There is probably advice on maintaining your specific model on https://www.tapeheads.net/ by the way. There's an encyclopaedia of cassette related stuff on there.

 

[abacus]

It still makes me laugh. People fiercely gripping onto dated formats. Streaming has choice, ease of use and high quality sound, but many still want to make their listening a chore and unrewarding. Strange world.

You have still never answered how you can listen to recordings that are not available on streaming, only on olde formats. (And there are thousands of them)

Bill

 

[RTHerringbone]

The tribalism in all walks of life is always entertaining. I was into cycling for a while and people used to get bulging eyes on forums shouting virtually over their keyboards about which group-sets were the best - all utterly pointless.

I'm new to this forum but see the same aimless frothing about DACs, media formats and other topics, when it all ultimately comes down to preference, the same as with which gear manufacturer you choose for your bike.

One thing that I think isn't black and white is the statement "many still want to make their listening a chore and unrewarding". I think that misses a critical point - one person's chore is another person's passion.

I used the convenience and speed of streaming yesterday to hear Taj Mahal's "Live At The Church In Tulsa" for the first time. I instantly ordered it on vinyl and have been enjoying it this afternoon. Does it sound "better"? Maybe, maybe not. But is the whole package of putting it on and turning the two LPs over after just two or three songs worth it? Yep - for me it's a fuller and more rewarding experience than just streaming the same album.

Some albums I'll never intend to own on vinyl and I'll get plenty of satisfaction streaming them instead, but for my preference and how I choose to consume music, some albums are just made to be heard through that medium, and I'm sure that nostalgia and other factors make tape sometimes the preferred format for other listeners. It's all up to the individual and pointless trying to corral people into a single pigeon-hole.