Yamaha RXV 1065 Preamp problem

[admin_exported]

Hi,

Ive just purchased the Yamaha RXV 1065 and it seems to be a great cinema amp. However I am experiencing great trouble getting the pre-amp out connections to work.When connecting to the pre-outs I do not get the desired output from these connections. I have successfully connected speakers to the normal speaker terminals at the back of the unit and these work fine. However if I connect to the pre-amp connections the only way I get any output is to turn the volume on the Yamaha to around 90% of full volume. (reading 0db) This is such a high volume setting that within a few mins the Yamaha powers off to protect the circuitry. Please note that when using the pre-amp outs I am not using the normal speaker terminals at the same time.

Surely a pre-amp out connection should not be affected by the volume setting on the unit? It should be a pre-set voltage.

I have run the setup config using the supplied microphone but there is still not change. I do however get sound from the speaker when running the setup.


I find it hard to believe that the unit is actually faulty but I have tried everything I can think of to resolve the issue.

Anyone got any ideas. It would be great if its just a simple setting!

Thanks.

Dave

 

[kevinJ]

First, what are you connecting to the pre-amp outputs?

Second, it's very normal that you have t turn up the yamaha's volume to make the signal, outputted by the pre-amp connections, higher. Hence the name, pre-amp. Thats everything inside the yamaha, exept the built-in poweramps. So the only thing you can connect to the pre-amp out connections is a poweramp or active speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

this may help you..

 

[Anonymous]

Im connecting QED interconnects only for the front two speakers. Both cables pass into a Rotel pre-amp which is connected to 2 power amps. Everything else in the chain has been tested and working fine.

Your point about the volume control is interesting but doesnt really make sense. As you say - 'pre-amp' is before amplification, so surely changing the level of amplification should not affect what should be a very low level singnal? Additionally if Im supposed to be turning the voume up so high on the yamaha to use the pre-outs then why does the circuit protection kick in after a few mins?

 

[kevinJ]

You should turn up the rotel's pre-amp completely(that way, that pre-amp will send the yamaha's signal unchanged to the poweramps), and use the yamaha to change the volume when watching movies (so turn the yamaha down all the way for starters)

Just make sure you never forget to turn down the rotel preamp when you stop watching a movie...

 

[chudleighpaul]

elkiem:

Im connecting QED interconnects only for the front two speakers. Both cables pass into a Rotel pre-amp which is connected to 2 power amps. Everything else in the chain has been tested and working fine.

Your point about the volume control is interesting but doesnt really make sense. As you say - 'pre-amp' is before amplification, so surely changing the level of amplification should not affect what should be a very low level singnal? Additionally if Im supposed to be turning the voume up so high on the yamaha to use the pre-outs then why does the circuit protection kick in after a few mins?

Why are you connecting the Yamaha pre outs to another pre-amp? Surely you should be connecting the per-out directly to the power amps.

 

[Anonymous]

kevinJ:
You should turn up the rotel's pre-amp completely(that way, that pre-amp will send the yamaha's signal unchanged to the poweramps), and use the yamaha to change the volume when watching movies (so turn the yamaha down all the way for starters)

Just make sure you never forget to turn down the rotel preamp when you stop watching a movie...

There are some interesting points coming out of this discussion. I have tried the above configuration and probably had the best results so far, however this just doesn't sit well with me for the following reasons;
[*]Until now I have never need to turn my amp (Rotel pre-amp) volume setting above 25%. On some CD's this is still almost cringeably loud. There are two massive power amps kicking out 240 watts each.[*]Generally the way that an amplifier works means that regardless of the power or quality of the amp distortion of the signal starts to become significant above about 50% volume setting. This is why you should never use a setting above 50%. It is this distortion that blows your speakers rather than the overall volume that you are listening at.[*]Even though the Yamaha is controlling a range of output volume levels to the pre-outs this still seems to me to be much lower than they should be. For example if I turn the Yamaha up to 50% volume and set the Rotel also to 50% volume then I get a volume that I would consider to be just at the starting point for where a movie should be. The guns or explosions are getting loud but they still fail to put a smile on my face or create enough shake to make anything in the room vibrate. I could run a small town from the amount of power that its consuming just to make that happen! If I play a CD at that volume it will make your ears bleed.[*]Ive even advjust the Yamaha to add the maximum 10db to this channel to see if that helped. It is slightly better but still not enough.

Re the comment about why am I connecting into another pre-amp:

Thats how pre-power amp combinations work. The pre-amp is just the sensitive electronics that you'd normally find in any other amp. Its an interesting thought to simply plug into the back of each power block but I didnt think you could run the power block without the controlling pre-amp. If the Yamaha is doing the same job as my Rotel pre-amp then that could explain the loss of signal strength but by-passing the Rotel pre-amp means every time I wish to change from either watching a film or listening to a CD I would need to re-configure all the cables at the back. Whilst this option 'might' work, for me this still renders the Yamaha as a useless box which I would rather replace with decent 2-channel DAC.

 

[chudleighpaul]

Tha Yamaha is doing the same job as the Rotel. If you are using the Rotel for music, why not plug the music source eg CD player directly to the Rotel. It seems to me you have overcomplicated matters

 

[Anonymous]

Firstly, thanks very much to all of you for your quick responses and help. Much appreciated.

I tried again last night with the Yamaha to test the theory. I connected the front two speakers to the pre-outs and a pair of rear surround direct to the speaker terminals. I used the setup microphone to calibrate it all and I set my Rotel amp (pre amp) to maximum.

Basically Im finding that while the sound quality is very good Im just not getting the punch I would expect. I need to turn the Yamaha up to at least 50% volume to even begin to get what I want from the sound. It feels to me like the signal strength from the pre-out on the Yamaha is about half of what I would expect. I shouldnt need to turn the Yamaha volume to 75% of max just to be moved by the films sound.

For me, the whole reason that I spent £2000 on the Rotel pre-power amp combination was so that I would have plenty of power in reserve. So far for everything Ive put through this amp that has been the case. Ive even tried the £25 sound card in my PC and whilst the sound could definitely be improved it still packs plenty of punch on a movie. I find it hard to believe that this is all the Yamaha has to offer with it needing to be pushed to its maximum just to scratch the edge of decent. Im half expecting that somebody will mention a jumper inside the unit that is in the wrong setting or something(?).

 

[Sorreltiger]

Let's get this right - you connected the front two speakers directly to the pre-outs of the Yamaha?

The front two speakers are the only ones that should be connected to the L + R speaker outputs of your Rotel combination. All the other speakers should be connected to the Yamaha - surround L + R, centre and sub.

You need to connect the pre-outs on the Yamaha to a spare input on the Rotel and use this for watching movies. Do the auto set-up with everything connected this way (volume on the Rotel set to half-way).

When listening to CDs, ignore the Yamaha completely - the CD player should be connected direct to the Rotel.

Be careful, re-read the advice in the posts above and look at the links suggested. I think you are in grave danger of blowing something in a terminal way.

 

[chudleighpaul]

I am still at a loss at what he is trying to achieve. He seems to be "daisy-chaining" pre-amps which is pointless. If he wants to add more power to his home cinema set up then he should connect the power amps directly to the pre outs on the Yamaha. If he just wants to improve music then connect the music sources direct to the Rotel set up. As you say he is in serious danger of bglowing something

 

[Anonymous]

Just for clairty regarding the previous two posts:

My Rotel setup is as follows...

There is a pre-amp - ie control circuits with no ability to amplify the signal - and two power blocks - ie only amplifiers without the necessary control electronics. Together these three units make up my 'amp'. When I listen to my CD player this configuration is bi-wired and bi-amped.

I have connected the Yamaha pre-amp out connections (front two speakers) to the Rotel Aux in connection. I am not daisy chaining anything. One pre-out goes to one amp.

 

[Sorreltiger]

If the sound level from the front speakers is too low, it's the Rotel, not the Yamaha which needs turning up.

 

[chudleighpaul]

Just to be clear, you say the front pre outs on the Yamaha are connected to the Aux in on the Rotel pre amp. If that is correct then you are "daisy chaining" You have connected one pre-amp (the Yamaha) directly to the other((the Rotel)

 

[Anonymous]

Sorreltiger - The Rotel has already been turned up to max. (see my earlier post) Its set so loud that even before I begin turning up the Yamaha there is a noticable buzz coming from the speakers.chudleighpaul - The Yamaha is being connect to an amp. Dont think of the Rotel as a pre-amp. Its no different than if I had a one piece hifi amp and connected the Yamaha to that. Whilst I appreciate your help I didnt open this forum post to discuss how bi-amping works and I think we have strayed away from my original question.
Just to re-cap: The signal strength from my Yamaha pre-outs appear to be very low. The only thing left to discover would be a setting on the Yamaha that Im missing or a jumper or something inside the unit. I dont expect to have to have the volume turned to 75% on the yamaha just to enjoy a film.

 

[chudleighpaul]

I give up!

 

[Anonymous]

elkiem: Just to re-cap: The signal strength from my Yamaha pre-outs appear to be very low. The only thing left to discover would be a setting on the Yamaha that Im missing or a jumper or something inside the unit. I dont expect to have to have the volume turned to 75% on the yamaha just to enjoy a film.

Anyone else have any ideas or experience a similar thing?

My thinking at the moment is to send this unit back and replace it with a decent DAC thats just 2 channel. I'd rather have decent sound on 2 speakers than go to this much trouble to get multichannel.

 

[chudleighpaul]

I would suggest that you contact a specialist HI FI dealer that does custom installations. Do that soon before you wreck some expensive gear.

 

[cwalduck]

elkiem:elkiem:
Just to re-cap: The signal strength from my Yamaha pre-outs appear to be very low. The only thing left to discover would be a setting on the Yamaha that Im missing or a jumper or something inside the unit. I dont expect to have to have the volume turned to 75% on the yamaha just to enjoy a film.

Anyone else have any ideas or experience a similar thing?

My thinking at the moment is to send this unit back and replace it with a decent DAC thats just 2 channel. I'd rather have decent sound on 2 speakers than go to this much trouble to get multichannel.

I had a similar setup, I set the volume on the stereo pre-amp setup halfway and then ran the AV amp calibration routine. Some inputs on stereo pre-amplifiers are setup with a lower gain if you still don't get the required volume after calibration try a tape loop as input instead of the AUX input.

 

[roger06]

Is the Aux input designed for AV 'pass through' - or whatever it's called?

I use the Yam's L&R front pre outs into my Nait 5i and it all works fine. However, the volume on the Nait5i amp is irrelevant and is effectively disabled in this mode so the volume can be controlled by the Yamaha amp. However, the pre outs go into a dedicated AV input so maybe it's the Aux input you have that just isn't designed for this? just a guess.

And for what it's worth, with my set up I would normally have the volume on the Yam about -30bd for TV, or -20 for a good BD watch or -15bd for a house-shaker when the wife and child are out...

 

[Anonymous]

roger06:
Is the Aux input designed for AV 'pass through' - or whatever it's called?

I use the Yam's L&R front pre outs into my Nait 5i and it all works fine. However, the volume on the Nait5i amp is irrelevant and is effectively disabled in this mode so the volume can be controlled by the Yamaha amp. However, the pre outs go into a dedicated AV input so maybe it's the Aux input you have that just isn't designed for this? just a guess.

And for what it's worth, with my set up I would normally have the volume on the Yam about -30bd for TV, or -20 for a good BD watch or -15bd for a house-shaker when the wife and child are out...

i was starting to worry that i had something setup wrong myself while reading this thread , i have a nadc326bee connected to a yam rxv765s preouts , and my br5s connected to the nad , the yam also goes to aux in , and i have the nad set to half volume for calibration and watching movies , tv .. the volume levels i use are the same , -30 .. -20 .. or -15 for a house shaker , just like yourself

.. i think the op is just missing something small , it should work fine ..

 

[cheyworth]

What Rotel pre amp is it?

Chris

 

[Anonymous]

I have an old and utterly amazing 1978 ish cr-1020 Yamaha coupled with a 667 Yamaha 7.1 av receiver and am in exactly the same boat, it is old school meets new school and turning unto even 50% volume would normally be terrifying on the cr

the 667 just sounds too......new to my ears. So I need the cr to power the front L&R

I get the pre amp out set up would prescribe the level but I'm not convinced that the beloved nod old cr is just going to burst into flames half way thru watching tron or the like.

Q1 if pre outing from an av unit to a stereo amp should the second amp be at close to full or at a "Normal volume"?
Q2 should the stereo amp take a power amp in or an aux input from the av unit?

 

[Sorreltiger]

Q1 I would set the volume level on your stereo amp at around your 'normal' level. It must be easily set exactly at that level when you link to the AV amp.

Q2 Use the 'aux in' on your stereo amp.

Don't worry about your kit - I'm sure you'll get good results. BTW, disregard all the stuff at the beginning of this thread. The OP was completely mixed up, but didn't seem keen to be helped!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks, that's what I'm running with at the moment,

Getting a sort of soft sound from the front it's lost any deep base and sparkle,

Cd in stereo is great straight in to the old cr but 5.1 with the new ones weak, rest of the system sounds great just a bit of a disappointment with the front L&R

Would the daisy Chain pre amp thing be doing this I run the eq from the recover and flat on the cr.

Would a line level boost between the two improve things?

Give the old cr a slightly hotter signal?

What ya think