Why Change Your TV?

[Frank Harvey]

I've noticed that there seems to be very few projector queries on this forum, so I'm going to make a suggestion to everyone in this section, which I have made a point of a couple of times.

Most people have a HD Ready TV, whether it be 1080p, 1080i, or 720p. Most people watch Freeview, Sky, Sky HD and maybe have a go on Wii Fit (for the first few weeks) most of the time, which are all either standard definition sources, or at best, 1080i, which almost any HD Ready screen can handle. Some may use a PS3 or X-Box 360 to play games, which even though it is a 1080p source, many games are 720p or 1080i. Again, all within the capabilities of most TV's already sitting in most living rooms.

It is debatable as to how much of a benefit 1080p is over 720p on the average 40/50" screen. Yes, there's a difference, but nothing major, and probably not worth losing a lot of money on your current screen and paying out even more on a new one. The only good reason to change your screen for a higher resolution one is to play HD films. Most people already have a half decent surround system already to go along with their HD Ready TV, so is the next step a 1080p 40/50" screen? Especially when quality of said screens is dropping?

So my suggestion is this. Those that like to watch films regularly, maybe even more so than TV, why not keep your current TV, which is good enough for the majority of source components that many people have, and invest that money in a good quality, 1080p projector? Anybody with a decent AV system can totally transform it with a 5, 6, 7 or even 8 foot, or bigger if they wish. The difference this makes to an AV system is HUGE! And obviously it can be used for gaming too, which if you've ever experienced the likes of Halo or Resident Evil on a proejctor, you'll know it's a completely different experience.

With the quality of 1080p projectors out there now for the same if not a little more than the average 40/50" screen, and cheaper than some 60" screens, why aren't people considering this option? Space isn't an issue, as the screen takes up no room, and the projector can be ceiling or shelf mounted out the way. I can only think of blacking the room out as an obstacle for some people. But even this is achievable by everyone. So why wouldn't you consider a projector?

Feel free to discuss - it would be interesting to hear people's views......

 

[birch]

Ok ok, ive got rid of my little dig there (even though im sure you wouldn't mind a little business going your way as a result of this thread) and i do think that the topic is an interesting one.

Personally i haven't even considered a projector and probably will never do so as i don't have a big enough wall space to take full advantage of such an item. Also a lot of the time you end up changing a whole room around just to accomodate the unit.

However if i had the space and money, then i probably would look into converting a room for the sole purpose of a projector based home entertainment system.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Very good!

I have placed this thread for the sole purpose of opening up people's options regarding their AV systems. I thought this was better than answering numerous "Which TV" threads.

Have I mentioned any products? Have I lured people into our store? Have I linked to anything I shouldn't have done? Nope.

Now how about going back, reading it again, and take it for what it is.

Mods - how about removing birch's post? It's uncalled for, and not in the spirit of the intention of the thread. Thanks.

 

[D.J.KRIME]

I think your post is a very interesting one David.

I have toyed with the idea of getting a projector the next time I upgrade from my 50" but there are a few minus points with a projector for me.

Yes I love movies and would love to have a 8ft screen in my home but the having to black the room out is not one my Wife would go along with. It would also present issues with daytime viewing as I personally would not fancy having to ull all the curtains etc just to have a game of Halo.

There is then the issue of cable runs as it is not exactly easy to run a HDMI from your rack up the wall and accross the celing to the projector (neatly any way) and issues with the life of the lamps and high costs of replacing them.

My current Plasma cost me about £1200 and from my limited experience with projectors you have to spend consideribly more than that as all the cheaper projectors I have seen they were all a bit naff and look rather washed out in opperation.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks DJ, and more the sort of post I was looking to stir up.

The issue of the cables is a fair point, but again, not an impossible one. Obviously there would be a little bit redecorating to do.

One thing to mention with projectors is that the room doesn't have to be fully darkened - many daytime programmes can be watched quite happily with a little light in the room. I think this is one of the main points most people bring up, but I don't think it's as big an issue as many people make out.

I wonder how many people take along their partners to view projectors - maybe some haven't seen the benefits?

Lamp life and the cost of replacement bulbs is one that I think many people misunderstand. When they're told the bulb is 2,000 hours or 3,000 hours or so, it doesn't sound a lot. But if you actually work out how many films you'd watch a week on a projector, let's say 3, that gives you 1,500 movies, that's close on 10 years! Given the average bulb is about £300, that's not bad! And some projectors will give you 5,000 hours......

I do think many people are put off projectors by seeing substandard ones. The sort of projectors I'm referring to are good quality 1080p ones, something around the £1500 give or take, not the ones you see plastered over website you've never heard of. These sort of projectors wil be quiet and have better picture quality that most people couldn't imagine a domestic projector could be capable of. But it is the same as anything - the entry level of any product will always be a huge compromise on whatever that type of product is capable of.

 

[Torres09]

From a personal viewpont here i have a few issues...not to dissimilar to D.J's...

1) Dont have enough space in the living room for one....

2) Hav'nt been impressed by what one's (abliet limited) ive seen......

3) Im lucky enough to have a 42" LCD in the living room.....Mrs Torres would have me packed off to the shed at the mear thought of an 8ft projector......

4) And finally...... decorating is pants

 

[Anonymous]

That's funny, only talking to my son yesterday about getting a projector for watching movies. Must admit I know zilch about them yet, but planning on researching next week.

Couple of questions -

Would it be worth getting one if only sitting approx 10 ft away? If so, what would be the best size screen to go for?

My Pio 5090 is on a stand fairly close to a wall, so would it be possible to fit a screen on the ceiling so it will hang just in front of the TV? This is probably the only way I could fit one in.

I'd like to ceiling mount the projector, but is there any effect on the PQ running a long HDMI cable? Thinking of running one from the 5090, up the wall and under the floorboards in the upstairs bed room, then into the projector (approx 8 mtrs) if this possible with HDMI?

 

[lobby]

Yes ive seriously condsider a Projector for a bedroom of 4.5 x 3.5 and posted earlier on a forum, budget £2000 for projector and screen, with viewing distance of 10ft, so i was looking at a 5ft-6ft screen. Majority of replies said you wont get a hd one for that price and no suitable suggestions where made so it's been lefted for now. Currently 40" lcd for gaming with use of PS3 and Xbox Elite partnered with Onkyo 606 and Quad-lites small neat tidy system. As for blacking the room, only one window to worry about and that has heavy thick curtains, because i find it hard to sleep in a light room especially during the summer. So this is still in consideration when i get some good feedback, i may investigate a bit more and go for a demo locally. But the main reason ive not looked at this anymore is the positioning of the Projector, ceiling mounting and shelf mounting maybe tricky at the moment so easiest way for me would be to table mount meaning every time i viewed a movie or used it for gaming the projector would have to be moved out the way after use, as i do sleep in this room. Now if this was for my lounge i wouldn't hesitate after a good demo at Svenoaks in a similar size room to my bedroom it looked awesome, that was a year or so ago, Infocus running from Panasonic BD30 with Onkyo 606 and Kef 2005.3.

 

[professorhat]

I am in precisely that position you mention David, HD Ready 42" TV which is a few years old and a projector is going to be my next main purchase. However, main concern for me at the moment is, I live in a ground floor flat and how it would be mounted - it might be a simple answer, but I've yet to get someone in to take a look.

I saw some fabulous demos of Epson and Panasonic projectors at a recent AV show I went to so those who haven't been impressed I don't think have seen the latest and greatest as it were. Next stop for me (when I get some time to sort it all out) will be demoing various projectors at the £1,500 to £2,000 mark - current favourites from what I've read are the InFocus IN80 and the Panasonic PT-AE2000 / AE3000, though you recommended a Mitsubishi HC6500 to me in another thread so I'm going to try and find someone who stocks it round me.

Blackout curtains are already installed so I'm not far off the dream now!

 

[Anonymous]

I agree that this is an interesting discussion. I briefly considered this but discarded this as a viable option fairly quickly for the reasons below:

1. Cost - I'm a prospective student (postgrad), and buying a GOOD projector, sound system, blu ray player, cables, screen and installation would have cost more than my existing setup of tv, blu ray player and hdmi cable.

2. Light - I live in a studio flat with windows wall to wall leading onto a balcony. Not an unsurmountable challenge I'm sure, but very hard to completely black out, although as you say, some light may be ok.

3. Sound - because I live in close proximity to others, a surround system would not have been practical. I would have to keep the sound fairly low, and so I wouldn't get the benefit of the system. Tv speakers and headphones are fine for now.

4. Wall mounting - Fairly thin walls make mounting a projector difficult and potentially dangerous, depending on the weight. Same for the screen.

5. Viewing distance - 9ft max. At this distance, I think a 42" tv is fine, although 50" probably better for blu ray.

6. Cables - reasons put forward by another post.

Despite the above, a proejector with corresponding av equipment is something I would like to have under the appropriate circumstances (ie not a student, house with a spare room, etc). So I would say that a few years down the line I will probably look into it more seriously.

Again, good discussion.

 

[Anonymous]

I think 40 to 50" is simply big enough for most people, or as big as spouses will tolerate.

Why buy a new astra when you can have a secondhand BMW for the same money which to a driver is better in just about every conceivable way. Normally because the purchaser considers the astra adequate and desires nothing more.

Plus a Tv is plugged in and switched on. It's not just the inconveniece of running cables up the ceiling, many people will have hardwood floors etc, be in rented accomodation and very often may need specialist help in installing a projector. All in it's a still a bit of a leap of love over the ole' telly, sat there all nice and self contained in the corner, for which you have to be quite dedicated.

Plus a projector will usually be in addition to a telly, for the reason it requires offboard source and sound equipment, and the "other half" might get confused when wanting to watch eastenders or big brother at all the different boxes and switches and remotes that need to be understood. Most people only want or may only be allowed one screen.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Torres09:

From a personal viewpont here i have a few issues...not to dissimilar to D.J's...

1) Dont have enough space in the living room for one....

2) Hav'nt been impressed by what one's (abliet limited) ive seen......

3) Im lucky enough to have a 42" LCD in the living room.....Mrs Torres would have me packed off to the shed at the mear thought of an 8ft projector......

4) And finally...... decorating is pants

Hi Torres

Playing Devil's advocate, how much room is needed for a projector? The projector itself can be ceiling mounted up out of the way, and pull down screens aren't even noticable if they're mounted behind a curtain type housing (forgot the word!). Even if they're not hidden, they can be painted the same colour as the walls.

This is one reason I think people don't think about projectors. They haven't seen any quality ones, only cheap non HD ones, which nowadays do look pants, and if the projector is in a pub, forget it! I would mention a few to look at, but this isn't a sales thread, but looking at the price point I have already mentioned, you can find some stunning looking projectors, which can produce a better looking image than LCD's and plasmas.

 

[Frank Harvey]

piobob: That's funny, only talking to my son yesterday about getting a projector for watching movies. Must admit I know zilch about them yet, but planning on researching next week.

Couple of questions -

Would it be worth getting one if only sitting approx 10 ft away? If so, what would be the best size screen to go for?

My Pio 5090 is on a stand fairly close to a wall, so would it be possible to fit a screen on the ceiling so it will hang just in front of the TV? This is probably the only way I could fit one in.

I'd like to ceiling mount the projector, but is there any effect on the PQ running a long HDMI cable? Thinking of running one from the 5090, up the wall and under the floorboards in the upstairs bed room, then into the projector (approx 8 mtrs) if this possible with HDMI?Different projectors have different throw ratios, so some will produce a large picture for a short distance, others are designed to sit much further away from the screen. I myself sit about 11 foot from the screen watching a 5 foot picture, which is about to be updated to about 7 foot. The distance you can sit from the screen depends on the material being viewed - standard definition looks fine on mine, so about twice the screen width is a rough guide. High definition is a different story. because it's a less compressed picture, you can have a much bigger screen and sit closer, like I will be.

Screens can be wall mounted or ceiling mounted.

 

[Frank Harvey]

lobby:But the main reason ive not looked at this anymore is the positioning of the Projector, ceiling mounting and shelf mounting maybe tricky at the moment so easiest way for me would be to table mount meaning every time i viewed a movie or used it for gaming the projector would have to be moved out the way after use, as i do sleep in this room. Good point. Those that can't wall or ceiling mount may have to put it away between use, which can get tiresome. But what I do find is that anyone can ceiling mount - sometimes they just can't be bothered, like me!

I just use a shelving unit at the back of the room.

 

[Frank Harvey]

professorhat: I am in precisely that position you mention David, HD Ready 42" TV which is a few years old and a projector is going to be my next main purchase. However, main concern for me at the moment is, I live in a ground floor flat and how it would be mounted - it might be a simple answer, but I've yet to get someone in to take a look.

I saw some fabulous demos of Epson and Panasonic projectors at a recent AV show I went to so those who haven't been impressed I don't think have seen the latest and greatest as it were. Next stop for me (when I get some time to sort it all out) will be demoing various projectors at the £1,500 to £2,000 mark - current favourites from what I've read are the InFocus IN80 and the Panasonic PT-AE2000 / AE3000, though you recommended a Mitsubishi HC6500 to me in another thread so I'm going to try and find someone who stocks it round me.

Blackout curtains are already installed so I'm not far off the dream now! At least you are looking in the right price range for the sort of projectors we're talking about, which is why you have been impressed. I can't imagine anyone NOT being impressed by them. The sort of image quality you can get now for this sort of money far outstrips £5k or even £10k projectors a few years ago! I've actually seen a £20k projector not look as good, although it is an old model now.

 

[Frank Harvey]

hmtb: I agree that this is an interesting discussion. I briefly considered this but discarded this as a viable option fairly quickly for the reasons below:

1. Cost - I'm a prospective student (postgrad), and buying a GOOD projector, sound system, blu ray player, cables, screen and installation would have cost more than my existing setup of tv, blu ray player and hdmi cable.

2. Light - I live in a studio flat with windows wall to wall leading onto a balcony. Not an unsurmountable challenge I'm sure, but very hard to completely black out, although as you say, some light may be ok.

3. Sound - because I live in close proximity to others, a surround system would not have been practical. I would have to keep the sound fairly low, and so I wouldn't get the benefit of the system. Tv speakers and headphones are fine for now.

4. Wall mounting - Fairly thin walls make mounting a projector difficult and potentially dangerous, depending on the weight. Same for the screen.

5. Viewing distance - 9ft max. At this distance, I think a 42" tv is fine, although 50" probably better for blu ray.

6. Cables - reasons put forward by another post.

Despite the above, a proejector with corresponding av equipment is something I would like to have under the appropriate circumstances (ie not a student, house with a spare room, etc). So I would say that a few years down the line I will probably look into it more seriously.

Again, good discussion.A GOOD projector. This will be subjective, as some may look at a £500 projector and be impressed. What I'm talking about here is projectors in the same price range as the sort of TV's people are looking at to replace already HD Ready TV's, so around £1k plus. Obviously in your position, you'd have to look at everything as a whole, and sort out budget proportions for the items you'd be interested in. Obviously in your position right now, spending a lot of money on the audio side would be a waste as you wouldn't get the full benefit.

Understandably, light would be a bigger issue in studios and apartments that have more glass than walls! Obviously to black out large areas may be a little costly, but maybe lined curtains would work out cheaper than blinds in your case. Some projectors work better than others in lighter situations. Obviously, full blackout is preferable, but not essential, as this can be helped with the right screen.

Projectors tend to be quite light, so wall mounting shouldn't be an issue unless you live in a cardboard box

As for size, this is down to the user - HD pictures has opened up the screen size possibilities. obviously there are guidelines to follow, but you can sit closer, or watch a bigger HD screen than previously possible with SD.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Hi David, this is a good thread and puts to the fourm the kind of approach we probaly both adopt in store. I can not endorse enough how good home cinema can be if set up correctly.

The most common issue is the perception of quality. Most clients are very surprised at the image quality they experience in a demonstration. The majority have very low expectations based around a projector they have seen at work or in the pub.

Of the issues raised so far most are overcome with the involvement of an installer, the only real factor to consider is how to control the light.

 

[Clare Newsome]

I wrote this blog on the joy of projectors for everyday viewing last year. We haven't had a TV - any TV! - at home since 2004...

Happily watched F1 qualifying earlier, without (thanks to dark cloudy skies outside) even having to draw the curtains.

 

[The_Lhc]

FrankHarveyHiFi: and pull down screens aren't even noticable if they're mounted behind a curtain type housing (forgot the word!).

Valance?

 

[Frank Harvey]

unconditional: I think 40 to 50" is simply big enough for most people, or as big as spouses will tolerate.

Why buy a new astra when you can have a secondhand BMW for the same money which to a driver is better in just about every conceivable way. Normally because the purchaser considers the astra adequate and desires nothing more.

Plus a Tv is plugged in and switched on. It's not just the inconveniece of running cables up the ceiling, many people will have hardwood floors etc, be in rented accomodation and very often may need specialist help in installing a projector. All in it's a still a bit of a leap of love over the ole' telly, sat there all nice and self contained in the corner, for which you have to be quite dedicated.

Plus a projector will usually be in addition to a telly, for the reason it requires offboard source and sound equipment, and the "other half" might get confused when wanting to watch eastenders or big brother at all the different boxes and switches and remotes that need to be understood. Most people only want or may only be allowed one screen.

40" or 50" is enough for most people, but remember when 40" looked huge? Not any more......it's the norm, just as 21" TV's were 30 years ago! We do get used to a certain size, then crave more. Others may need a certain size to watch material comfortably (which is the best way to choose screen size).

Projectors are seen as a hassle because people focus on what's needed to get started. It's no different to mounting a plasma on a wall. Burying cables, fitting a bracket etc. Very similar. People in rented accommodation can still use a projector, it just means the 'install' would have to be a little more crude, but it'd be no different to how mine is set up right now, so not impossible.

Yes, a projector is an addition to a TV. We would never recommend someone ONLY have a projector (unless they don't watch TV at all). A projector only requires the same off board sources that a plasma/LCD uses. Many AV amps now have two HDMI outputs for this sort of purpose, and the price of those are coming down. Having a projector installed should not affect the other half's ability to watch Eastenders, people's existing systems work in exactly the same way as they did before.

Obviously we're all different and there will be genuine reasons for some not to investigate projectors, but I think many of the negatives or issues with them aren't quite as big as many people make out

 

[Frank Harvey]

TheHomeCinemaCentre: Hi David, this is a good thread and puts to the fourm the kind of approach we probaly both adopt in store. I can not endorse enough how good home cinema can be if set up correctly.

The most common issue is the perception of quality. Most clients are very surprised at the image quality they experience in a demonstration. The majority have very low expectations based around a projector they have seen at work or in the pub.

Of the issues raised so far most are overcome with the involvement of an installer, the only real factor to consider is how to control the light. Thanks, and thanks for your input.

 

[Frank Harvey]

That could be the one! Although I think there's another one......

 

[Frank Harvey]

Clare Newsome: I wrote this blog on the joy of projectors for everyday viewing last year. We haven't had a TV - any TV! - at home since 2004...

Happily watched F1 qualifying earlier, without (thanks to dark cloudy skies outside) even having to draw the curtains.

This is what I mean. many daytime programmes (IF the user wants to use it for the occasional bit of TV) are bright enough for viewing with minimal blacking out. I also watch the F1 on mine (even though it's a heavily compressed broadcast, roll on F1 HD!) with no need to draw the curtains.

 

[Anonymous]

I took the plunge about 3 years ago adding a 7ft pulled down screen into the ceiling void and a Planar PD7010(720p) projector. and even against my Pioneer 507 the picture is awesome and much more a cinematic experience.

Like most people I will be updating my TV to a full HD model in the near future, then my projector to the Panny PTAE3000, in this order only due to the amount of viewing the TV has for the kids after school and weekends (Bolt on Blu ray rocks).

My advice if you can buy a resonable projector for about £500ish and a screen for around £250.00, you can get a plasterer to do a ceiling for around £200.00(mounting screen & cables), this is still less than a 3/4 star reviewed 50" plasma, then do it, movie nights will have a whole new meaning.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Markjaspi - one of the reasons I started this thread was to dispell some rumours and common held beliefs about projectors. You can probably get a passable projector for about £500 which will be 720p or maybe less, which some will be happy with, some won't. Current 1080p home cinema projectors are worlds apart from older, non HD and data type projectors. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm talking about full HD projectors that are designed for the specific purpose of reproducing movies in a domestic environment - 1080p, quiet, accurate colour pallette, and sharper than many TV screens on the market. Currently, this sort of projector is above the £1k mark, although Optoma have just broken that price point, although I've yet to view it. What I don't want to do is mention specific models, otherwise I'll be accused of making this a sales thread.

Thanks for your input though