Why are older world-class CD players so darn cheap...

[MajorFubar]

...when I'm truly convinced they still tan the hide of anything new at the same price?

Just sat here in my bedroom listening to Peter Gabriel's greatest hits album, "Shaking The Tree", and for a change I'm listening via my much-underused Marantz CD-63KI instead of via my HRT II+. I'm listening with a pair of Sennheiser RS180 headphones from the CDP's line-out.

Now I like my HRT II+. In fact I love it. I doubt £300 could have bought me another USB DAC which sounded vastly superior for the price, probably just different. I highly recommend it even today.

But, this CDP, verging on 20 years old, absolutely lays it to waste. There's no question and I'd be happy to ABX. How is it better? The sound is bigger, it's more dynamic, the soundstage is wider and deeper, it's warmer and less clinical, and Whoa! The bass can rock. Percussive-sounds like snares snap with an eye-blinking realism. Vocals are crisp and clear. Everything just takes-on another scale to listening on the HRT.

Ok, the HRT is not a CD player, but I suspect - please correct me if I'm wrong! - that its sound must be of a similar quality to what one would expect from a new CDP at a similar price (is that a totally wrong assumption?). Yet you can buy one of these CD63KI babies for well-under £200. There's pristine-looking boxed one on eBay at the moment for £150. Some of the ones without a BIN go for even less. It must be the bargain of the century

Who the hell are buying new CDPs for the same price, and why? Not just the Marantz, other legends like the Rotel RCD965BX are also available at these stupid prices too.

 

[ID.]

Moving parts make them more likely to break down than amplifiersof a similar age, thus making them a riskier purchase when you consider the fact that you may need to outlay significant amounts of cash for repair or replacement. Some people just don't want to take that risk.

 

[BigH]

Well the cd tray tends to fail on the Marantz.

The HRT seems over priced in the UK as only $180 in USA.

 

[MajorFubar]

Well the cd tray tends to fail on the Marantz.

Really? :? Mine tends not to have done. Have I been lucky?

The HRT seems over priced in the UK as only $180 in USA.

$180 is for the HRT II, not the HRT II+. The list-price of the HRT II+ is $349 in the States, which in terms of damage to the average American's pocket, is similar to the £299 price over here.

 

[BigH]

OK thanks for clarifying. Interesting that your cd player is better than the HRT+.

 

[MajorFubar]

OK thanks for clarifying. Interesting that your cd player is better than the HRT+.

It's probably a reflection of the fact that a good proportion of the KI's £500 cost in 1996 went towards building a bl--dy good analogue stage with high-quality components powered by a regulated mains-feed, not a surface-mount circuit-board containing a few chips, powered from a computer's USB socket. I suspect that to buy a DAC which scares-off the KI, I'd be looking for something built to the same standards, and i doubt I'd get much change from £600 in today's money, maybe more.

 

[GMK]

I absolutely love mine. Two thumbs up. It's big, dynamic and exciting

 

[BigH]

OK thanks for clarifying. Interesting that your cd player is better than the HRT+.

It's probably a reflection of the fact that a good proportion of the KI's £500 cost in 1996 went towards building a bl--dy good analogue stage with high-quality components powered by a regulated mains-feed, not a surface-mount circuit-board containing a few chips, powered from a computer's USB socket. I suspect that to buy a DAC which scares-off the KI, I'd be looking for something built to the same standards, and i doubt I'd get much change from £600 in today's money, maybe more.

I suspect the Pearl Lite is the closest. But Fidelity Audio say "The PSU in the 63 is very compromised and with the level 1 upgrade we address these issues allowing the music to flow effortlessly with superb bass weight and rhythm."

 

[MajorFubar]

I absolutely love mine. Two thumbs up. It's big, dynamic and exciting

It is, and the difference took me by surprise tbh.
After ripping all my CD collection it's making me wonder whether I should wire the 'KI back up again and start saving for a really good DAC around the £1k mark which unquestionably improves upon it. Because now I feel I'm using my second-best source just for the sake of convenience.

 

[MajorFubar]

I suspect the Pearl Lite is the closest. But Fidelity Audio say "The PSU in the 63 is very compromised

I'm sure they do. Not that I'm saying they're lying, more that they have a vested interest in pointing out its flaws.

 

[BigH]

I suspect the Pearl Lite is the closest. But Fidelity Audio say "The PSU in the 63 is very compromised

I'm sure they do. Not that I'm saying they're lying, more that they have a vested interest in pointing out its flaws.

Yes I know but they don't say that on the other players they upgrade.

 

[GMK]

Mine does have modifications though (to what extent I'm not sure though - I've emailed the previous owner), so I don't know what a standard one sounds like

 

[mikeparker59]

Well the cd tray tends to fail on the Marantz.

I have the Rotel mentioned in the OP's post and my tray has failed on that, or at least it needs gentle persuasion to open.

I've lubricated the 'cogs' a few times and all is well for a short while but the tray soon starts to jam again. I find a fingernail

behind the tray trim helps to start the tray opening.

CDP still sounds good though

 

[Alantiggger]

I'm gonna try and get a Rotel RCD-965BX ... for a decent price, will I notice or WOULD I notice a difference fron it and my Sony BDP-S790 when playing a cd disk...

Plz excuse any ignorance in this matter as I have no idea., thx.

 

[Ajani]

Deleted. Mistake

 

[cannibal_ox77]

There's loads of CD63ki's on ebay coming up all the time (pm66ki's too), i was wondering if this is a vastly superior player to the CD6000ki?

I was thinking about replacing my 6000 series but on the other hand, I do much prefer the look of the 6000 range. In fact I don't think I've seen many hifi components since that early-mid 00's marantz era that look smarter. Just an opinion but those simplistic slabs of brushed aluminium in any finish make them look way more expensive than they are, to these eyes at least. Was thinking about shopping for the pm & cd 7000ki's to upgrade, but keep hearing about this legendary 63ki - how would it compare to WHF's favourite budget player the CD6004 for example? With all those years of technological advancement between the players, does it stand up well, or even outperform it?

 

[stevebrock]

I have said this many times before the CD5 63 KI - Sig STILL is an incredibly fantastic sounding CD player, I actually think the transport in this CDP is far superior to anything under £1000 today!

Its a very detailed player, and many of my CDS from years ago have never sounded as good as they did on the Ki-Sig - even when I was using an Apollo R as a transport & Rega DAC it was good, but still not all the detail was being revelaed!

However since I have been streaming ALAC directly to a Rega DAC via USB from my NAS, normal service has been resumed and the combo sounds better than any CD player I have owned - and yes I did own a CD63 Ki-Sig back in1998, then a CD6004 then the Apollo R.

 

[relocated]

For most people a spend of £200 on a part mechanical device that is getting very old is just not a safe bet. At the age they are, you could buy from THE most honest seller and next week it could fail. So less people taking the risk depresses prices further and so it goes on.

Glad you are still enjoying your cd player. I'm sure part of the 'quality' is down to long term ownership, being used to the sound and the physical interaction of putting a cd on, BUT, who gives a ##it if your ears are having a great time.

 

[MajorFubar]

keep hearing about this legendary 63ki - how would it compare to WHF's favourite budget player the CD6004 for example? With all those years of technological advancement between the players, does it stand up well, or even outperform it?

That I can't say, because I haven't heard any of Marantz's new machines up against it. The most recent new machine I've tested against it is a NAD C 525BEE, which is my dad's player and iirc cost around £300. I was using my Cyrus 2 + PSX combo at the time and I plugged-up the NAD into the Aux input so I could do quick A-B comparisons without having to faff-around swapping leads. I remember thinking the NAD sounded brilliant, until you played the same CD on the Marantz, and that sounded in the next league. But, I'll hear the argument that the 63KI might not be better, it's just producing a familiar sound that my ears and expectations have moulded to, like wearing an old favourite pair of slippers. So that probably means that there is no straight answer, you need to listen to it yourself and decide.

As for the years of technical advancement...got to say that since the mid 1990's, I'm not really sure there's been much in CD replay, other than to make things cheaper and smaller with more surface-mounted chips taking the place of masses of conventional components.

 

[BigH]

I have the 63SE and I thought about changing it for the 6004 and was advised by various people that I should not as the 63SE is still better. Also read a few users reviews and they said the 63SE is better. The 63II KI will be slightly better than the 63SE.

I think the 63II KI would be closer to the Pearl Lite than the 6004.

 

[jonathanRD]

I did not realise that the Rotel RCD-965BX was a 'legend' - it was my first CDP before the tray started playing up.

So I put it in my loft for posterity and replaced it with the Rega Apollo that has no tray.

 

[tonky]

Hi JR

I would be interested to know what you think of the apollo compared to the rotel.

thanks tonky

 

[the record spot]

Amazing player in its day by all accounts, but I won't be moving from my SA7001-KI anytime soon!

 

[jonathanRD]

Hi JR

I would be interested to know what you think of the apollo compared to the rotel.

thanks tonky

Hi tonky - the Rotel was recommended by Audio Excellence in Cardiff (now Audio T) - I seem to remember it was CDP of the year 1992. From 2002 it was connected to my Rega Brio until I purchased the Apollo in January 2010. I only purchased a new CDP because the tray was playing up, and it was getting a little stuck sometimes trying to read a CD when first loading it.

At £430 I expected the Apollo to be better than an 18 year old CDP (I didn't read forums in those days!) and generally I remember it being clearer. The synergy between Rega components maybe was a factor too. I had also recently moved the HiFi into a new much larger (bare walls, no furnishings) room after our extension had been built - so room dynamics was another factor possibly. Sorry, I'm not the best at analysing and detailing the differences in SQ.

I am very pleased with the Apollo, it's the last component I would change now and I suspect that unless it breaks I will be using it for many years to come. If I get really bored I could get the Rotel out of the roof and compare it against the Apollo but I've got plenty of other things to do further up my list (upgrading TT, setting up NAS).

 

[chebby]

Sorry, I'm not the best at analysing and detailing the differences in SQ.

No-one here is either.

Don't apologise for it.