Which Speaker

[Deleted member 160668]

Re CCA and amazon, I dont know I'm afraid. Google is your friend, or others may chip in. When I used mine years ago I used spotify. It replaced an Arcam rBlink bluetooth as it sounded better. I believe they also stream Tidal, but amazon - not a scooby, I'm afraid.

As you've already bought your speakers and already own an amp, why not wait to see if you like the combo first?

Also, I've had a lot of Arcams over the years, the Alpha range is very old now. Personally I'd avoid something so old. Unless you pick up a gem, or have the cash to get it serviced, if required.

 

[Deleted member 160668]

I may have missed it above, but what's your top limit for an amp?

 

[OliverBen5672]

I'll continue to look into CCA then, I know amazon can be tricky sometimes when it comes to compatibility. I should probably switch to spotify but don't want to spend the time transferring over thousands of songs and playlists.
The alpha is old which is a concern, many of the second hand ones are not in amazing condition which is something I'll always go against, plus there's compatibility with other equipment like the CCA to consider.
I haven't stated a top limit prior to this. To be honest I'm not entirely sure, the £350-450 range is ideal but I'm prepared to compromise if I'm convinced its worth it. I see some musical fidelity / naim equipment coming in around £700 which I could wait and save for, but only if I'm convinced its worth it.
I am also debating just going with the yamaha as its a solid, affordable option and then in 6 months time when I know my equipment better and have spent some decent time listening to vinyl, and covid restrictions have been lifted, going to some shops and auditioning a few amps and shelling out some extra money then.

 

[Deleted member 160668]

CCA attaches via 3.5mm headphone jack to RCA so is compatible for every amp with an input.
Check if amazon compatible, if so buy one, I doubt you'll find anything that comes close for the money, or even quite a bit more... It is the bargain of the music world.

For that budget you are well into much newer amp range, I'd kill the Alpha 10 plans and look at something much newer. Staying with Arcam (and both of which I've owned) you are easily into Arcam A29 territory, and if you can pick up a collection one (which sell cheaper) maybe even an A39. An A39 is one hell of a beast... There have been a few of these going on ebay of recent for your top end spend. I had them on watch before I sold mine. Look on ebay and change filter to 'sold items' to see what stuff sells for and realistic values for items. N.B. prior to the ones you can see in sold there were several around your top end, £450.

 

[OliverBen5672]

https://support.google.com/chromecast/thread/13544551?hl=en - it seems like I would be unable to use amazon music the the CCA which is annoying, I may send a message to amazon or someone just to double check, if not may switch to spotify or try and find another work around.
I agree in that I think the acram alpha is too old, not sure I'd be comfortable buying it. Will look into the A29/39 alongside the others on my list. I am not sure if I'd be better getting the yamaha for a bit and then auditioning some more high end ones post covid rather than buying one now.

 

[rainsoothe]

I'm torn now. On the one hand I've heard so many good things about the yamaha as501. Its supposed to be pretty straight forward and is hard to beat for the money. Many people I've spoke to on forums are impressed with the sound and say its a great starter amp - unfussy in pairing and capable of driving speakers.
Obviously when researching I came across many excellent amps at higher prices - the few that stick in my mind are Musical Fidelitys MSI range, Rega elex-r and Naim Nait 5si. All of these are around the £1000 mark, 3x as expensive as the yamaha. At that kind of price difference its obvious why I'd prefer to use the as501, for 3x the money I'd expect a pretty big jump in performance. I'm not sure I could afford any of those at the moment, although might be able to soon if I can find some second hand. If I'm going to have to upgrade soon then that might be preferable anyway and cheaper in the long run.
To put it simply I think I would prefer to get the as501 purely because of my budget but don't want to damage my speakers or limit their performance too greatly. Some people on here say they will, others say they wont, I cant audition due to covid, its a hard decision. I haven't bought the amp yet so I have some time to decide and will talk to as many people as I can to make the most informed decision I can.
I guess part of the problem is I bought a high end speaker when I may not be able to match its quality in other areas, but I saw it going on ebay and couldnt resist.
If anyone has any further thoughts I'd really like to hear them.
Edit - I should add I went for the Monitor Audio Gold Reference 20, I'm picking them up on wednesday and hes said I can give them a demo with his Marantz pm6007 which hes said they work well with.
Another amp I thought I'd add I'd heard about was the Quad Vena ii and Cambridge Audio CXA range

These might need something like a Roksan Caspian M2 (these might be affordable on the sh market) or an Arcam SA30 - I would stay clear of Cambridge Audio and other bright sounding amplification, but do try to audition.

 

[ProgDr]

This is probably not the most exciting video but does explain why many of us are highlighting the issue of correctly matching your amplifier to your speaker.

View: https://youtu.be/uwP2LHY5b5U

Chromecast supports up to 96khz 24bit audio with ideal conditions so you can cast Amazon music HD over it. There isnt that much content above 44.1khz.
The Arcam Alpha 10 is an interesting idea. A slightly warm sounding amplifier that we used to sell by the bucketload back in 2005. Huge 800va transformer in them that made them heavy but you can listen to them for hours without getting fatigued.
Enjoy your journey of discovery, good idea getting opinions but use them as a guide not an absolute... i am not wearing your ears!

 

[OliverBen5672]

That was an interesting watch thank you for sharing. I won't say that I understood every technical part just yet because I don't, but I get the general idea about clipping and needing to match the amp.

The problem with the Chromecast isn't the chromecast its with amazon, from what I can find seems like they don't allow you to stream to a chromecast as they want you to buy products like amazon echo/alexa for your streaming needs. There might be a way around or maybe I should just switch streaming platforms, it would just be a bit of a hassle is all.

I have a shop nearby that does have many of the different suggested amps so when lockdown permits, I intend to go and have a listen in person. I'm wondering if until then it would be okay to just use the yamaha and then trade it in / sell it, this would allow me to listen to the amps in person (although not on my speakers but I'm sure they have something similar) and give me some time to save up a bit more money. Then again I'll only do this if it is safe for the speakers, will the occasional bit of clipping for a few months cause damage, or does it only build up over time? If so maybe I'd be better just saving for another month and then seeing if the stores are open.

 

[ProgDr]

That was an interesting watch thank you for sharing. I won't say that I understood every technical part just yet because I don't, but I get the general idea about clipping and needing to match the amp.

The problem with the Chromecast isn't the chromecast its with amazon, from what I can find seems like they don't allow you to stream to a chromecast as they want you to buy products like amazon echo/alexa for your streaming needs. There might be a way around or maybe I should just switch streaming platforms, it would just be a bit of a hassle is all.

I have a shop nearby that does have many of the different suggested amps so when lockdown permits, I intend to go and have a listen in person. I'm wondering if until then it would be okay to just use the yamaha and then trade it in / sell it, this would allow me to listen to the amps in person (although not on my speakers but I'm sure they have something similar) and give me some time to save up a bit more money. Then again I'll only do this if it is safe for the speakers, will the occasional bit of clipping for a few months cause damage, or does it only build up over time? If so maybe I'd be better just saving for another month and then seeing if the stores are open.

Your Yamaha will be fine just keep the volume down. You dont want ANY clipping if you can avoid it. just keep the volume dial below 11 o clock. The impedence of the MA GR20 is stated as 6ohm but the bass driver is lower than the midrange and tweeter and it drains energy from your output transistors when running at a highish volume. You dont need to burst your eardrums to destroy a speaker you just need a very dynamic piece of music that has lots of volume variance. Telegraph Road by Dire Straits is a killer for speakers very subtle and quiet at the start so you naturally raise the volume then it cranks up towards the end where the damage happens. The iconic Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin is very similar.
As an amazon HD subscriber i share your pain. I tried the Echo Link and was less than impressed. The best results I had was taking the SPDIF output from the link and using an external DAC but the Link wont output more than 16bit 44khz so negates the point of Amazon ultra HD. BlueOS in the NAD has resolved this but to me it seams Amazon have gone out of their way to cripple their streaming service. The DAC in the Echo products is poor so dont expect great quality if you put a 3.5mm jack into one.

 

[OliverBen5672]

Yeah I'm debating biting the bullet and switching to spotify so the chromecast audio will work easily, its just a hassle transferring over so many songs.

I tend to like dynamic music, I listen to a lot of rock/guitar heavy music, I'm a fan of both Dire Straits and Led Zeppelin who you mentioned. If I were to get a higher end amp would this allow me to play their music without causing any clipping / other problems with the speakers? I don't intend to play the speakers at max volume but I'd still like to go reasonably loud. I'm a little unsure on how the bass driver is at a lower impendence than the tweeters and what problems that causes, is this something that won't occur if I get a better amp? Will similar great songs to the ones you mentioned be a problem no matter what amp I get?

 

[OliverBen5672]

I may make a new thread later today and post it with a relevant title as this has very much veered off from the original debate of which speaker. If I do I'll post a link to the new thread here as well.
I think if I do get an amp that doesn't have a built in way of streaming from my phone, I'll get the CCA and switch to spotify and put in the hours moving over my music.
Amp wise I'm still undecided. If I had a bigger budget it would be an easier decision but I suppose that's always the case.

 

[ProgDr]

Impedance is the resistive force the speaker presents and efficiency is how much volume a speaker can create from a given amount of energy. Watts doesn't define volume. Watts is a measurement of energy presented to the speaker. The output of a 95db efficient speaker will be twice that of an 85db efficent design for the same input wattage. (The GR20 are 89db)
There is a great article by Geoff the grey geek if you want to understand the principles further.

https://geoffthegreygeek.com/understanding-amplifier-power/

The impednce of the GR20's is imbalanced but this helps give it a flat frequency response. Its not something to worry about just remember it isnt an flat 8 ohm load but averages 6ohm and drops significantly lower at the low frequencies and thus will respond better to a high current amplifier that can really control the bass driver. Lower powered amplfiers may allow it to become a little wayward making the bottom end sound bloated and undefined.

The basic ethos behind amplifiers like the Quad 909 current dumping amplifier is to create huge swings in current from the very quiet to the very loud without clipping until you get to obscene volumes. They are architected with massive reserves of energy for those "gunshot" moments.
Amplifiers performance is as much about power supply as it is power output and there are people like Les Wolstenholme of Avondale Audio who can explain the benefits of a good architecture in power amplifier design far better than I.

The amplifiers you have mentioned will get a reasonable sound out of the GR20's. I recently auditioned the Musical Fidelity M3Si and that has some serious power for a little integrated amplifier. I have similar music tastes to you. Rush Pink Floyd Dream Theatre and found that amplifier fantastic with AOR / Rock type music. Worth a listen.

Choose your hifi with YOUR ears and not your eyes or anyone elses ears eyes or typing fingers for that matter and remeber a good sound today will be a good sound in 15 years time so invest wisely. Good luck

 

[OliverBen5672]

Thank you for explaining it, I will read the article you linked tomorrow as well.
Just checking I've understood correctly as well as some amps let you choose between 4/8 ohm output I should be running 8?

I definitely cannot afford the Quad 909, impressive as it looks, although I've heard some good things about the Quad Vena ii integrated amp which is not much of a jump in price from the yamaha anyway.

I think, like you and others have said, that its important to judge with my own ears. My current plan is to wait until April (a long painful wait) and go to my local store - https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/c-35-amplifiers.aspx#pgnum=1&sort=popular - which seems to have a really good selection of amps. I'll contact someone who works there a little before to let them know my situation and depending on what I like will likely then buy one second hand.
Unfortunately they don't stock all the amps I've been recommended - no Quad amps for example - but they have others like the musical fidelity msi range, rega elex-r, many arcam and NADs, Naim Nait 5si and Roksan Caspian M2 - a long list of amps for me to work through! I'll look more into these before I go and steer away from bright amps as the speakers are already a tad bright and hopefully continue to gain more insight into them from people on here and by looking at reviews and such.

I also must say you clearly have great music taste! I want an amp that will allow me to play Straits, Pink Floyd and all other forms of rock/indie etc and be able to do the songs justice by producing a good sound and most importantly not clipping at any point! I think most on the list I mentioned above will be able to do this but will see what people think and what they sound like in person... hopefully.

 

[OliverBen5672]

Dedicated amp thread - https://forums.whathifi.com/threads...-for-monitor-audio-gold-reference-20s.118323/

 

[ProgDr]

I see you have a rega 3. i did a thread on hot rodding a Rega 3 a month or so ago. It may be of interest to you https://forums.whathifi.com/threads/hot-rodding-rega-3.118148/

 

[OliverBen5672]

That is an interesting read, I hadn't considered that you can upgrade individual components of a turntable. Maybe something I'll look into later down the line.