Question What's your next HiFi purchase?

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podknocker

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Current flows at 95% light speed through speaker leads. What they cost makes no difference. Why would you pay a fortune for speaker leads, when the internal speaker wiring will be basic copper and negate the investment in expensive speaker leads? People need to stop being fixated with this stuff. THEY JUST WANT YOUR MONEY!
 

SohoAudiophile

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Current flows at 95% light speed through speaker leads. What they cost makes no difference. Why would you pay a fortune for speaker leads, when the internal speaker wiring will be basic copper and negate the investment in expensive speaker leads? People need to stop being fixated with this stuff. THEY JUST WANT YOUR MONEY!
I agree that there are companies out there selling ludicrously overpriced snake oil.

But at the same time there is, objectively and scientifically, a lot more going on in a cable than just electrons moving through copper. Inductance and capacitance are affected by the materials around a cable, whether the cable is coiled, how far apart the positive and ground cables are etc. The electrical charge itself doesn't even move through the physical wire, it's in the flux around the wires.

Yes, there is some nonsense out there. But double-blind testing shows different cables affect sound differently. I don't think you can just write the whole thing off.
 
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Jasonovich

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Actually it probably was the correct answer, just not what you wanted.
It wasn't by any means conclusive but it just demonstrates the mindset, for the trained ear or someone who is homed in on the sound, you may pick up the subtleties but for someone who has better things to do, it's all the same :)!
 
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Jasonovich

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I think the question is - Can you hear any difference between the 2 cables?
Yes indeed.

My own findings, there were differences in tonality, I can't decide which is best. I wasn't listening to music only the sound from the TV and blogs on the YouTube. The voices came across sharper on the older cables, the newer ones were softer but didn't feel like the sound was being poured through a funnel.
I'll get a better idea when I listen to actual music.
 

Jasonovich

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Current flows at 95% light speed through speaker leads. What they cost makes no difference. Why would you pay a fortune for speaker leads, when the internal speaker wiring will be basic copper and negate the investment in expensive speaker leads? People need to stop being fixated with this stuff. THEY JUST WANT YOUR MONEY!
Apologies I didn't mean to start a cable debate. These were less than £30, the orange ones I had before were a bit of an eye sore, I thought the grey ones would blend better against a similar shaded wall. :)
 

Revolutions

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I bought a WiiM pro plus. The improvement from WiiM Mini w/ amp DAC isn’t huge. But I have to admit that I quite like what it’s done for the sound.

So much that I’ve signed up to Tidal to give lossless streaming another go, see what the difference vs Spotify sounds like through the pro plus.
WiiM pro plus unexpected benefit: connected my cd transport & the auto-detect input sort of works well enough for how I’ll use it. V subtle difference but more pronounced highs & a sharper sound on cymbals. If it’s there, whyever not.
 
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Stuart83

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I saw definitive proof of the wire debate proved nonsense as said prior in the much too long cable debate (arguement)

My old father saw me as a 20yr old purchase fancy speaker wire and after making a boast he hastily disappeared into the loft/Aladdin's cave of sadly mostly lost vintage electronic gear of his.
He reappeared with his ocilosope and something else attached then put it all to bed for me.

There was no dicernable difference between the stuff I'd been sold by a hifi shop to the stuff he had lying around.

He went into detail after that with a much too long lecture (as I saw it as a 20yr old) in why this was but I don't want to bore you 😐

Rather this link explains (too much of) it 😂 scientifically and definitively, it should (but won't I suspect for some) finally put it to 🛏️

Waldo Nell
https://www.waldonell.com › ...PDF
The Real Science Behind Audio Speaker Wires

I find the conclusion in-line with my thoughts......

"Conclusion
This article intended to show some science behind speaker wires. It is not there to
convince you not to buy uber expensive cables. In the end the decision is yours. I
merely wanted to make you aware that there is a lot of snake oil, misconceptions,
ignorance and down right lies in the industry - both from manufacturers and your
trusted audiophile experts at your local shop, but now you know the truth. At least,
when spending the price of a small car on cables, know you are doing so in order to
waste money and have bragging rights rather than to alter the sonic performance of
your system in any perceivable way.
Use common sense when purchasing equipment. Ask questions, and question the
responses. If the responses include a lot of technobabble - walk away. Nothing in the
audio world should need to be explained in technical detail to convince you to buy
it. Listen to it - blindfolded - and make up your own mind. If you cannot hear a
difference between a $5000 system and a $50000 system, buy the $5000 system. Use
the rest to spend on wine. But make sure you do a double blind, or at the very least
single blind test. That means - make sure you honestly do not know which system
you are listening to when doing an A/B comparison. This is the only way to not
have the placebo effect ruin your decision making abilities.

If you can't be bothered to read the science and I don't blame you 🥱 there are some "REAL" and important things to consider which do effect a wires behaviour first is-
• Guage.
• Wire length ( often overlooked especially in the AV world keep it equal).
And
•A good "Connection".
(I've found personally bare wire connections are as good as any but for convenience and to stop oxidation soldered banana plugs are handy)

After that what you hear is down to your equipment.

Back to/on topic 😁

The "Bellari EQ 570" has arrived and I must say is a quality all metal construction.
The dials are resistive and silky smooth to turn, it's a heavy little thing smaller than my Google pixel pro mobile phone length and width but much thicker.

I like the option to completely run music uninterruptedly through the EQ with the push of a button when it's not needed.
I've had one once that had to always be on with my djay decks otherwise the signal was broken, even with that particular EQ zeroed when not in use it always had a detrimental effect on the music quality.

The "excellent" in depth reviews and complete tear down here-

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/203557-bellari-eq570-analog-eq-measurements/

And it's gathering good reviews here-

Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
https://audiosciencereview.com › f...
Bellari EQ570–WOW WOW WOW

It caught my attention when looking into sidestepping the long consultation with a laptop, microphone and being a contortionist that Dirac is.
I've never been happy with the results in comparison with it switched off despite going way to far in depth with it.

I found solving one issue using Dirac created another with something else.
Giving to one aspect of sound to take away from another but always managing to somewhat mask the amps much preferred natural sound.

I would of tweaked even further and their might indeed be a way of getting it right thus joining the Dirac fan club but realised after far too long and many (2😁) nights it had become a chore.
To my fiancée's delight I actually found and much more enjoyed putting up 2 cheap sliding doors to block the odd shaped alcove off which was the obvious problem, turning it into a now much needed wardrobe in the listening room/bedroom.
Well it's now the bedroom/listening room in that order now since my fiancée moved in 🤯

I bought the EQ as I simply want to bleed a little bass out with certain songs that's it, since swapping to the much bigger speakers I love.
Other than that I much prefer the amps natural sound that I like it for.
I know Dirac has a function to take out bass, but I've always missed the older ways of much more commonly including a simple placement of rudimental tone controls on an amp.

It has been my experience that Dirac with hifi has its uses but messing about with phasing etc isn't ever going to replace the better positioning of speakers or even free/cheap rudemantery room treatments !to my ears!

In AVR with 6 speakers or more, if they need phase correction the results are much better if not a must have.
I've found it a disappointment in hifi for me especially after somewhat knowingly being led to believe that it was HIFI's incarnation Gandalf.
 

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Jasonovich

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Jul 28, 2022
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I saw definitive proof of the wire debate proved nonsense as said prior in the much too long cable debate (arguement)

My old father saw me as a 20yr old purchase fancy speaker wire and after making a boast he hastily disappeared into the loft/Aladdin's cave of sadly mostly lost vintage electronic gear of his.
He reappeared with his ocilosope and something else attached then put it all to bed for me.

There was no dicernable difference between the stuff I'd been sold by a hifi shop to the stuff he had lying around.

He went into detail after that with a much too long lecture (as I saw it as a 20yr old) in why this was but I don't want to bore you 😐

Rather this link explains (too much of) it 😂 scientifically and definitively, it should (but won't I suspect for some) finally put it to 🛏️

Waldo Nell
https://www.waldonell.com › ...PDF
The Real Science Behind Audio Speaker Wires

I find the conclusion in-line with my thoughts......

"Conclusion
This article intended to show some science behind speaker wires. It is not there to
convince you not to buy uber expensive cables. In the end the decision is yours. I
merely wanted to make you aware that there is a lot of snake oil, misconceptions,
ignorance and down right lies in the industry - both from manufacturers and your
trusted audiophile experts at your local shop, but now you know the truth. At least,
when spending the price of a small car on cables, know you are doing so in order to
waste money and have bragging rights rather than to alter the sonic performance of
your system in any perceivable way.
Use common sense when purchasing equipment. Ask questions, and question the
responses. If the responses include a lot of technobabble - walk away. Nothing in the
audio world should need to be explained in technical detail to convince you to buy
it. Listen to it - blindfolded - and make up your own mind. If you cannot hear a
difference between a $5000 system and a $50000 system, buy the $5000 system. Use
the rest to spend on wine. But make sure you do a double blind, or at the very least
single blind test. That means - make sure you honestly do not know which system
you are listening to when doing an A/B comparison. This is the only way to not
have the placebo effect ruin your decision making abilities.

If you can't be bothered to read the science and I don't blame you 🥱 there are some "REAL" and important things to consider which do effect a wires behaviour first is-
• Guage.
• Wire length ( often overlooked especially in the AV world keep it equal).
And
•A good "Connection".
(I've found personally bare wire connections are as good as any but for convenience and to stop oxidation soldered banana plugs are handy)

After that what you hear is down to your equipment.

Back to/on topic 😁

The "Bellari EQ 570" has arrived and I must say is a quality all metal construction.
The dials are resistive and silky smooth to turn, it's a heavy little thing smaller than my Google pixel pro mobile phone length and width but much thicker.

I like the option to completely run music uninterruptedly through the EQ with the push of a button when it's not needed.
I've had one once that had to always be on with my djay decks otherwise the signal was broken, even with that particular EQ zeroed when not in use it always had a detrimental effect on the music quality.

The "excellent" in depth reviews and complete tear down here-

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/203557-bellari-eq570-analog-eq-measurements/

And it's gathering good reviews here-

Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
https://audiosciencereview.com › f...
Bellari EQ570–WOW WOW WOW

It caught my attention when looking into sidestepping the long consultation with a laptop, microphone and being a contortionist that Dirac is.
I've never been happy with the results in comparison with it switched off despite going way to far in depth with it.

I found solving one issue using Dirac created another with something else.
Giving to one aspect of sound to take away from another but always managing to somewhat mask the amps much preferred natural sound.

I would of tweaked even further and their might indeed be a way of getting it right thus joining the Dirac fan club but realised after far too long and many (2😁) nights it had become a chore.
To my fiancée's delight I actually found and much more enjoyed putting up 2 cheap sliding doors to block the odd shaped alcove off which was the obvious problem, turning it into a now much needed wardrobe in the listening room/bedroom.
Well it's now the bedroom/listening room in that order now since my fiancée moved in 🤯

I bought the EQ as I simply want to bleed a little bass out with certain songs that's it, since swapping to the much bigger speakers I love.
Other than that I much prefer the amps natural sound that I like it for.
I know Dirac has a function to take out bass, but I've always missed the older ways of much more commonly including a simple placement of rudimental tone controls on an amp.

It has been my experience that Dirac with hifi has its uses but messing about with phasing etc isn't ever going to replace the better positioning of speakers or even free/cheap rudemantery room treatments !to my ears!

In AVR with 6 speakers or more, if they need phase correction the results are much better if not a must have.
I've found it a disappointment in hifi for me especially after somewhat knowingly being led to believe that it was HIFI's incarnation Gandalf.

People tend to overlook, it's not always the sound quality that is the basis for purchasing cables. I tend to put construction and durability and even aesthetics over and above the deemed sonic benefits.

Yes I do hear differences between cables but that's just me. It's more the case of tonality rather than one cable being outright superior to the other. Changing the cables can make a difference to the balance of the system depending on the materials used and design philosophies.
If your speakers have forward sounding treble, some cables can tone it down, others can make it worse. It's really about finding the right balance and you don't have to spend a fortune to find it.

In my humble opinion, cables cannot improve the sound but it can provide different tonalities and I don't mean furthering the sound quality but more to do with the emphasis of cable characteristics in the frequency range. The laws of physics dictates that you can't improve the signal running through the cable but you can affect the sound either adversely or providentially, depending on the cables you use and your setup.

In the 80s I was using 15amp solid core cooker mains cables and I was getting really good results and it cost me pennies! The QED speaker cables I was using before made it sound edgy and sharp.

I agree there's a lot of snake oil as well as a lot of misinformation in terms of perceived sound qualities, that's why I would always advocate spending as little as possible on cables or make your own. If your hifi is worth £1000, why would you spend £500 just for the cables? It's just Nutz whole Hazelnuts! :)
 
Last edited:

podknocker

Well-known member
People tend to overlook, it's not always the sound quality that is the basis for purchasing cables. I tend to put construction and durability and even aesthetics over and above the deemed sonic benefits.

Yes I do hear differences between cables but that's just me. It's more the case of tonality rather than one cable being outright superior to the other. Changing the cables can make a difference to the balance of the system depending on the materials used and design philosophies.
If your speakers have forward sounding treble, some cables can tone it down, others can make it worse. It's really about finding the right balance and you don't have to spend a fortune to find it.

In my humble opinion, cables cannot improve the sound but it can provide different tonalities and I don't mean furthering the sound quality but more to do with the emphasis of cable characteristics in the frequency range. The laws of physics dictates that you can't improve the signal running through the cable but you can affect the sound either adversely or providentially, depending on the cables you use and your setup.

In the 80s I was using 15amp solid core cooker mains cables and I was getting really good results and it cost me pennies! The QED speaker cables I was using before made it sound edgy and sharp.

I agree there's a lot of snake oil as well as a lot of misinformation in terms of perceived sound qualities, that's why I would always advocate spending as little as possible on cables or make your own. If your hifi is worth £1000, why would you spend £500 just for the cables? It's just Nutz whole Hazelnuts! :)
I paid a fortune for my speaker leads, because they are very flexible ribbons and don't coil up like barbed wire etc. I've tripped over rigid cables before. They are also blue, which I like. Build quality, cosmetics and ease of install were the reasons I bought them and didn't expect any sonic improvements and there aren't any!
 
Last edited:

Jasonovich

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Jul 28, 2022
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I paid a fortune for my speaker leads, because the are very flexible ribbons and don't coil up like barbed wire etc. I've tripped over rigid cables before. They are also blue, which I like. Build quality, cosmetics and ease of install were the reasons I bought them and didn't expect any sonic improvements and there aren't any!
Yeah fair point Pod.
 

Stuart83

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Jul 22, 2023
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I paid a fortune for my speaker leads, because the are very flexible ribbons and don't coil up like barbed wire etc. I've tripped over rigid cables before. They are also blue, which I like. Build quality, cosmetics and ease of install were the reasons I bought them and didn't expect any sonic improvements and there aren't any!
To me a more genuine reason for paying more indeed 👍

I've had to run my speaker cables under the carpet in the living room to hide the naked little b?????rs away from annoying me.

More drastically for the bedroom/listening room actually ground tracking 😲 into the floor and bridged over the top with a thin run of hardboard as the cables having to cross the doorway created a small (although easily avoidable) ridge.

OCD (of the real diagnosed life ruining type) 😠 wouldn't let me simply ignore them despite being such an almost invisible tiny ridge especially after the underlay and carpet practically absorbed the cable.

Coincidentally 😆 I've had "blue" 3 core although mains cable acting as speaker cables (obviously only using the red and blue memory serving me right) as a kid circa the wire colour change.
It connected an old Sansui AU 505 to mission 760i in my first hifi at 10yrs old.
Right when my father was buying up all the now vintage hifi at bootsales (where the sansui came from) after the not all but mostly all-in-one hugly inferior crappy stereos from sharp etc replaced them, and then the dawn of the CD further filling the bootsales with quality then deemed as old fashioned record and tape decks.

My hifi journey started then, paradoxically at the end of most other people's where I learned early on that provided a wire has the correct guage, type, length, obviously connection and is of a decent quality then it's as good as anything else even the stuff mined from Uranus.

I've used all sorts over the yrs and only ever whist djaying and forgetting the speaker wires had an interesting failure and perhaps sound degradation.
My friend promptly bought some hair thin stuff from the local Poundland and predictably it glowed red then snapped almost instantly.
Not being able to get hold of anything else we simply braided loads of strands together and the djayed the night without further hick ups.
(Obviously maybe that would impact on sound quality but the type of hard tekno music I used to mix and volumes played at would mask that easily) 😂
 
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podknocker

Well-known member
As I stated above, the internal speaker wiring will be standard, good quality copper, which is used in the vast majority of HIFI, house and industrial wiring etc. Most of the industrial copper is good enough for anything, apart from scientific instances, where fine tolerances are critical. Spending thousands, even hundreds on fancy, hyped up speaker wiring is pointless. The signal is carried to your speakers via Van Den Hul Angel Hair material and then meets standard copper at the speaker. This expensive journey ends at the binding posts. Waste of money. What do people think this expensive stuff is 'adding' to the mix? If wiring made a difference, you would need the best quality metal in the national grid, all your domestic wiring, all your kit, including speakers etc. There are so many different materials in a HIFI system, but changing speaker wiring will be pointless. The effect of expensive stuff is negligible, if not zero, in a HIFI system. The outputs on your amplifier and the speaker terminals will be similar and sufficient quality, but connecting these 2 points with expensive wiring is not going to change anything. A very poor analogy would be driving on good quality tarmac and crossing a bridge made of pure gold, to get to the other side made of good quality tarmac. How would your journey across the bridge be improved by a bridge made of pure gold? The function of the bridge is not elevated because of the material its made from. If you were building a nuclear weapon, you might need something more refined and exacting, but I don't think so, although I'm not a nuclear weapons expert.
 
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