What should I do?

[admin_exported]

Hello to all ye experts !

My set up is as follows : Marantz CD 7300 cdp, Marantz PM 7200 amp and Jamo E855.

In my opinion something is amiss here. Whats my problem - its not a particular sound problem (though I feel the mid range is not good with the Jamos) but it is more related to fatigue I guess, I tire out after an hour or two and I feel something is wrong. Sorry, I know I am being a little abstract here but I am hoping that some one must have felt this way

.

I thought my weakest link is my speakers, some how I feel this combination can perform better and I am tempted to point at the Jamos. When I listened to the Dynaudio Audience 52, man they blew me apart - I loved those speakers. I did not have the marantz set up, the dyns were being powered by NAD C372. Now, after some research, I hear the PM7200 cannot drive the Dyns, I believe I need more power. Is this true?

So now I think I have to change my amp. The NAD C372 or 352 is seemingly lovely and I find them to be more natural than the PM7200. The NAD-Dyn combo was pretty much awesome !

Another thing I need to point out is that my current set up is done without any sort of investment in cables or interconnects (I am using probably the lowest grade cables and I have not done biwiring).

As far as musical tastes go, I listen to a lot of jazz and progressive rock is my main cup of tea (the likes of King Crimson, Rush etc and lots of European stuff).

So I am stuck here and I desperately need to know where to start with for my upgrade? Should I get a pair of new speakers, or should I change my amp first? My friend, who is also an owner of a hi-fi shop (this is where I heard the Dyn-NAD combo) says the amp is the one that has to go.

Being so thoroughly confused I knock an all your doors for help!!

 

[Anonymous]

I don't know about you kit, but I would trust your mate's opinion at the HiFi
shop. However, I thought I would add a word about your cables. In my
experience the cables can make a big difference. When I upgraded my
Cambridge (£35) cable to a Chord Cobra 3 (£55) cable, the difference
was striking. I have also found this to be true with both Bi-wiring and
Bi-amping. To hear this for yourself, treat yourself to a new cable.
Then plug the old cable in the right hand channel, then the new in the
left and flick between the two sides with the balance on the amp. If
your experiences match mine, you will be very happy with the money you
have spent.

Hope that helps,

Joe.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot for your advice !!!

Any more people, please offer more advice... PLEASE

 

[Anonymous]

Well if you have not bought decent speaker cable or interconnect then you dont really have any idea of just how good your current system is. I would have thought that your amp with 95w per channel would have enough juice to drive the dynaudios but i appreciate that the dynaudios really need a lot of grip and power , which is not usually a marantz trademark. If i were you i would buy decent speaker cable and a decent interconnect first. Something like a van den hul interconnect might be good as they are quite neutral sounding and would probably sound good on a nad amp too, should you decide to change amps. I am not familiar with the jamo speakers. How much are they and where did you get them?

 

[gregory]

have you tried switching to class a mode on your amp also an ic from someone like qed and the 79 strand speaker cable should do the trick.i believe that expensive cables are just that,others on this forum will disagree but i cant hear a difference between £20.00 cables and £50.00 ones,the same go's for speaker cables, a few pounds a metre is all you need.i'm not trying to open a can of worms here just trying to save you some money.

 

[Anonymous]

Cables - try before you buy. You should be better placed than most for this!

 

[Anonymous]

Speaker cables are the really important thing. Nice thick stranded copper. The interconnects look prettier but don't change the sound at all unless the ones you have are corroded or something. The chances are that it's the speakers rather than the amplifier that is the cause of your discontent.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="jimwall"]
Cables - try before you buy. You should be better placed than most for this!
[/quote]

Absolutely correct! Then report back your findings.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all your suggestions !!

Jimwall, are you saying I am better placed because of my friend? Sad part is he does not have a variety to deal with, he only has one Nordost and that costs a ton. So I got to buy them.

And in any case, the collective opinion is that cables are required whether I switch amps/speakers. So let me get down to that. From all the posts, I guess Chord Cobra, Van DH, QED are the best bets? If there is anything else to try out do let me know. I am in Chennai (a city in India) and I dont know of any exclusive cables dealers, I am sure there must be someone, somewhere.

Okay, now I am going to share something with all you folks, its something that I just finished doing, something that I claim to be my acid test in order to determine who is my weakest link (speaker/amp, cables apart of course)

I got my friend's NAD C372, hooked it up to my CD7300 and Jamos in order to see if my amp has an issue. The NAD definitely rocks - the sound is more natural and the bass is tight. Somehow the marantz sounded more coloured to me.

Then I took my Marantz PM 7200, hooked it up to my friends CD 7200 and Dynaudio Audience 52. So some configuration except that now I am seeing if there is a problem with my speakers. And man, did the Dyns rock, they sound fantabulous !!! I loved them but then like all you experts who said the Dyns cannot be driven by the Marantz - the marantz heated up within 10 minutes. I dont know if that is a problem but I did get a little scared. So I am not sure if I can just replace my Jamos with Dyns if my Marantz cannot make them shine.

So in effect, I think my first upgrade should be the NAD - it sounds lovely, less tiring, less "shrilly" (I think the maranzt overdoes the high/low freq making it tiresome, IMHO!). And this NAD can drive anyone, they are bloody powerful. Right?

Please share with me what you think after this test. I also listened to the Primare I30 with the CD7200 and Dyns - God, its shockingly good !! Its amplification is so clean and the Dyns obey like puppies. Well, thats out of budget. So now I am really contemplating the NAD C372 as my next logical step.

PLEASE HELP as you guys always do, thanks a ton !!

Cannon

 

[Anonymous]

Fraziel,

I got my Jamos in Chennai (south Indian city). They are the E855 now discoutinued by Jamo

. I paid close to 38 grand for this (INR).

 

[Anonymous]

ok. yes the nad will drive just about anything.lots of power on tap and its a good amp ( was thinking about buying one myself and now wish i had).As for cables DO NOT listen to anyone who says they make no difference to a system or that there is no difference between a £20 cable and a £50 one. There can be HUGE differences and either those people are literally tone deaf or their system is not good enough to hear the difference. With that nad amp i would be looking to spend about £50 on an interconnect, or even more if you can afford it. Spend a minimum of £5 a metre on speaker cable. qed silver xt is an obvious choice.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Fraziel"]There can be HUGE differences and either those people are literally tone deaf or their system is not good enough to hear the difference.[/quote]

When you buy an expensive mains or interconnect cable (usually prettily made for pence, sold for hundreds of pounds) you hear what you are expecting to hear purely because you're listening for it. It's a mugs' game. The differences are unmeasurable, nobody can really hear a difference and those believers of the cable gods that have been tested have so far failed dismally.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"][quote user="Fraziel"]There can be HUGE differences and either those people are literally tone deaf or their system is not good enough to hear the difference.[/quote] When you buy an expensive mains or interconnect cable (usually prettily made for pence, sold for hundreds of pounds) you hear what you are expecting to hear purely because you're listening for it. It's a mugs' game. The differences are unmeasurable, nobody can really hear a difference and those believers of the cable gods that have been tested have so far failed dismally.[/quote]

sorry, thats cynical rubbish. And speak for yourself. I can hear enormous differences between cables. Night and day almost between some cables.I also dont spend hundreds on cables.thats what e bay is for. I currently use a chord chorus. if you cant hear the difference between that and ,say, a qed qnect 2 ( which i also have ) then you should get a hearing test.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Fraziel"]if you cant hear the difference between that and ,say, a qed qnect 2 ( which i also have ) then you should get a hearing test.[/quote]

I'll warrant that you can only perceive a difference when you can actually see what cable is being used. If it was done blind you'd have no chance, because there is really no difference to hear. It's a marketing ploy, pure, simple and very very profitable.

 

[Anonymous]

Well i have no problem spending the money as its made a big difference to my system. I did a comparison between my mates vdh integration and my chord chorus. I could tell the difference blind no problem. It would be easy.Same with speaker cable.The suggestion that all cables sound the same despite different design,construction and materials is both illogical and ludicrous.

A guy i know recently bought an lcd and connected it up to his dvd player using the bog standard freebie cables which he also buried in the wall. I took over my ixos scart as he didnt believe that better cables made much difference.He was quite upset when he saw the difference and realised that he then had to dig out the freebie cables from his walls and replace them.The difference was astonishing.I suppose all av cables are the same too?

 

[gregory]

fraziel is quite right,you do not have to listen to ANYONE who gives you advice but the point is you dont have to spend a fortune on cables if the rest of your system is balanced right.i use qed and atlas cables for not much outlay and again i agree with fraziel that the cheapo cables that come free with most equipment is not that good and can be improved upon but i have used more expensive cables in the hope that it would be a HUGE improvement and quite frankly it wasn't.if you wish to go the route of buying more expensive cables go ahead,i hope it works for you but my money would go on that amp or cd or speakers that cost £50.00 more.now there's an improvement.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="gregory"] the cheapo cables that come free with most equipment is not that good and can be improved upon but i have used more expensive cables in the hope that it would be a HUGE improvement and quite frankly it wasn't[/quote]

A short length of screened wire is completely unable to affect the sound of a low to medium impedance source either one way or the other so any reasonably made wire will do the job just as well as a pretty one with wooden blocks on the ends.

Speaker leads need to have a low resistance to produce good sound so should be thick, at least 4mm, more if possible.

BTW well made interconnects can be bought for around a fiver on Ebay.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I am definitely not going to go berserk with cables but I definitely need to get better ones than the one I got for free.

Keith, any brands in mind?

Fraziel, thanks for the suggestions. I am now happy that the NAD is probably going to be my next step and then after I can fill my pockets up, I would probably upgrade my Jamos to Dyns.

Somewhere, in the corner of my head, theres that nagging feeling that I should save up really well and get the Primare I30. That is so awesome with the Dyns but then I think there is no END to this. Man this is a complicated area !!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="cannon_dt"]From all the posts, I guess Chord Cobra, Van DH, QED are the best bets? If there is anything else to try out do let me know. I am in Chennai (a city in India) and I dont know of any exclusive cables dealers, I am sure there must be someone, somewhere. [/quote]

With the rest of your system, QED is more than enough. Its available in Chennai QED Cables at Profx

 

[JoelSim]

I think it's fair to say that different materials affect performance is different ways. Silver sounds different to copper etc etc. Good plugs conduct better etc etc. Every hifi mag in the world rates cables so with all these knowledgable audiophiles who know how to test hifi and AV, they can't all be wrong.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JoelSim"]I think it's fair to say that different materials affect performance is different ways. Silver sounds different to copper etc etc. Good plugs conduct better etc etc. Every hifi mag in the world rates cables so with all these knowledgable audiophiles who know how to test hifi and AV, they can't all be wrong.[/quote]

Ultimate conductivity is irrelevant in an interconnect and all the truly knowledgable audiophiles know that and agree with it.

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]Ultimate conductivity is irrelevant in an interconnect and all the truly knowledgable audiophiles know that and agree with it.[/quote]

Never let the season of goodwill get in the way of the opportunity for an insult, huh?

 

[gregory]

agreed,and as i write this i am listening to my favourite song of all time and still at work.a little house in old amsterdam.sounds good to me on radio 2 in an office in ye olde london.a merry christmas to you all,.see you in the new year.gregory.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]Ultimate conductivity is irrelevant in an interconnect and all the truly knowledgable audiophiles know that and agree with it.[/quote]

Never let the season of goodwill get in the way of the opportunity for an insult, huh?

[/quote]

Who is being insulted?

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]Who is being insulted?[/quote]

Those underlings you consider not to be

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]the truly knowledgable audiophiles[/quote]

who

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]know that and agree with it.[/quote]