Well.... After reading all the 46W4500 debates...

[admin_exported]

....... It pains me to say this because i was looking forward to buying one after the reviews, but after days of flicking through these threads, being made aware of the problems, reading everyone's views and generally not being able to make my mind up as to what to do, i think i've finally decided the risk in getting one that works perfectly is too much of a gamble, what with the clouding etc.. I refuse to pay top whack for a what is supposed to be a top notch tv from the worlds most popular brand and getting a faulty model... It's just not worth the risk!!

Also, i cannot be bothered fighting them for refunds like most have done, wasting time quibbling for a new replacement set, sending it back (at my own expense no doubt) or dealing with whatever other problems arise should i receive a faulty one...

I'm going to go to a Sony shop on saturday and see if they have a demo for me to check out and hopefully give me some evidence as to the frequency of this problem, (i shall ask if they know of this fault) but failing that, i feel this leaves me with several options now.. I either go for another make of similar/same size and quality (any 5star recommendations?), go for a slightly smaller, i.e 42" model, or start looking at plasma's that are a similar in size to the Sony.

I have until the new year i think until funds are sufficiently saved before i make my purchase, and until then i will be seriously checking out all future reviews and stores before i make my mind up.

If anyone has any views or comments they wish to add to this thread, feel free!! I look forward to reading them!

 

[Anonymous]

Just a thought; perhaps you might be better off going to a store that deals with other manufacturers as well as Sony. That way you may get a more balanced opinion on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the 46W4500. I do wonder if it would be in the interest of a dedicated Sony store to be too open about potential problems with their products, but I could be wrong there.

 

[Anonymous]

Speaking as a former employee of Sony 3 things must be remembered:

1) They're instructed, as alsina points out, not to mention weaknesses of the product.
2) They're actually directly instructed (atleast in Canada) to knock other manufacturers.
3) Being privy to a large discount, they have homes full of nothing but Sony equipment, and they never shop around nor read pertinent literature. Why would one when you only sell one brand?

Basically, alsina's right all over. Go to a dealer who sells more than one brand. Also do yourself a favour and buy from a non-corporate dealer.

My opinion is this; the poor black levels are an inherent LCD trait. The W4500 doesn't do anything drastic to correct this over previous Sony models. If poor black level bothers you, buy a plasma. But TBH they don't bother a lot of people, take the whf team for instance! They don't notice the difference at all according to Clare. Nevertheless a lot of (very vocal) people do. Simply ascertain if you're prone to noticing poor black levels before you splash out.

 

[Anonymous]

Worth pointing out that its not just vocal forum members that have had this problem. Most professional reviews for the W4500 (WHF in execption) have have had bleeding issues with the sets. Google around and you'll find them.

 

[Anonymous]

its a pity you would think after all this time sony wolud have rectified this issue

 

[Clare Newsome]

EHonda:Worth pointing out that its not just vocal forum members that have had this problem. Most professional reviews for the W4500 (WHF in execption) have have had bleeding issues with the sets. Google around and you'll find them.

Because they got sent the same faulty review set from Sony.....It did the rounds (while we kept onto our samples for Awards judging. We also got a fresh 46W4500 sample for the Show - where it and the 40W4500 clearly displayed for three days without a smidge of clouding.)

 

[drummerman]

Hi

Whilst I can't comment on the Sony's clouding problems perhaps also consider investigating Samsungs higher-end panels if you are set on LCD.

I found them better at displaying deep blacks then the Sony's when I was shopping around for a new tv. I've also noticed more natural colours with them, only top range Sony's with Bravia Pro processing equaled them to my eyes. You might see it differently though.

Imo neither did detail within black and colours as well as good quality plasmas though all lcd's did have higher brightness levels. Only you can decide whether that advantage is important to you. If not, I personally would, at present at least, opt for an equivilantly priced plasma, perhaps from LG or Panasonic. I find the brightness of lcd's, as set up in shops, tiring and fatiguing to look at. Once turned down to more acceptable levels, the advantage is (to me at least) lost.

Perhaps it is worth mentioning that panasonic plasmas pictures, when compared side by side with a good lcd with HD, seem a little softer. It's not that they don't display detail but on animated films for example, LCD has probably the upper hand. On other material, including SD freeview, the Panasonics (or other good plasmas) are imo better with a more natural, less 'edge enhanced' picture.

The exception are the Pioneers. They pretty much excel at most things though absolute brightness, whilst very good, is still not quite at LCD level. Well worth the extra though if you are looking for a top quality display.

Just my opinion of a few months looking at tv's.

Hope this helps

 

[Alsone]

I'd consider some Panasonic panels. They've long been one of the very best manufacturers out there and most of their products have tended to be rated ahead of Sony's in WHF tests pre the 46w series. I'd be very surprised if you found much of a price difference between Sony and Panasonic so they should be well within your budget constraints.

That said, I've just been looking at the 46in reviews for the Pannys, both got 5 stars, but aren't perfect performers for shaprness or black levels respectively:

http://whathifi.com/Review/Panasonic-TH-46PZ81/

http://whathifi.com/Review/Panasonic-TH-46PZ85/

This Samsung also gets a good review with slight critisism of black levels: http://whathifi.com/Review/Samsung-LE46F86BD/

This Panny's about the closest you can get to the Sony but does mean dropping down to 42": http://whathifi.com/Review/Panasonic-TH-42PZ800/

Your other choice is Pioneer, which will blow the Sony out of the water. However, they're expensive and their customer service stinks (in my opinion - if you have a pixel problem you're probably on your own!).

 

[ElectroMan]

raypalmer:Speaking as a former employee of Sony 3 things must be remembered:

1) They're instructed, as alsina points out, not to mention weaknesses of the product.
2) They're actually directly instructed (atleast in Canada) to knock other manufacturers.
3) Being privy to a large discount, they have homes full of nothing but Sony equipment, and they never shop around nor read pertinent literature. Why would one when you only sell one brand?

Basically, alsina's right all over. Go to a dealer who sells more than one brand. Also do yourself a favour and buy from a non-corporate dealer.

My opinion is this; the poor black levels are an inherent LCD trait. The W4500 doesn't do anything drastic to correct this over previous Sony models. If poor black level bothers you, buy a plasma. But TBH they don't bother a lot of people, take the whf team for instance! They don't notice the difference at all according to Clare. Nevertheless a lot of (very vocal) people do. Simply ascertain if you're prone to noticing poor black levels before you splash out.

I think the Sony Centre stores in the UK are franchises, and not run by Sony. Still, I agree that in any store that only sells one brand (e.g. Bang & Olafsen stores as well as Sony, or the 'exclusively Nikon' camera dealer in London) you're going to be spun a line about how great the brand is. I was in my local Sony Centre last week and a potential customer mentioned that plasma always looked better to him - that sent the assistant off on a rant about how plasma was on its way out and Panasonic were the only ways still trying to flog it, even including FreeSat HD tuners as a desperate measure to clear out a 'mountain of unsold plasmas'!

On a technical note, I don't think the cloudiness or backlight spill and black level are quite the same thing, as these sets are supposed to have excellent black levels.

And although plasmas are great, make sure you're not one of the small number of people who notice the 'phosphor trail' effect, as that could be just as irritating as the LCD backlight problem!

 

[kev g]

Well, it must be very disappointing for someone to have bought a set that has had these problems. I certainly would not want to go through all the rigmarole of returning such a large screen. In my view if the set has a clouding problem & every setting has been tried without making any difference then it is faulty & should be replaced or monies refunded.

I have seen Sony sets in action this week at my local Sight 2 Sound store, including the new Z series & must say the pictures have been stunning on all models.

I cannot accommodate such a large screen so am looking to buy the 32W4000 in the new year. So far no problems reported for this model.

 

[Anonymous]

RyanJH:

....... It pains me to say this because i was looking forward to buying one after the reviews, but after days of flicking through these threads, being made aware of the problems, reading everyone's views and generally not being able to make my mind up as to what to do, i think i've finally decided the risk in getting one that works perfectly is too much of a gamble, what with the clouding etc.. I refuse to pay top whack for a what is supposed to be a top notch tv from the worlds most popular brand and getting a faulty model... It's just not worth the risk!!

Also, i cannot be bothered fighting them for refunds like most have done, wasting time quibbling for a new replacement set, sending it back (at my own expense no doubt) or dealing with whatever other problems arise should i receive a faulty one...

I'm going to go to a Sony shop on saturday and see if they have a demo for me to check out and hopefully give me some evidence as to the frequency of this problem, (i shall ask if they know of this fault) but failing that, i feel this leaves me with several options now.. I either go for another make of similar/same size and quality (any 5star recommendations?), go for a slightly smaller, i.e 42" model, or start looking at plasma's that are a similar in size to the Sony.

I have until the new year i think until funds are sufficiently saved before i make my purchase, and until then i will be seriously checking out all future reviews and stores before i make my mind up.

If anyone has any views or comments they wish to add to this thread, feel free!! I look forward to reading them!

Exactly the same story with me..........I am now thinking of getting a Panasonic TH-46PZ80 , any thoughts ???

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:

EHonda:Worth pointing out that its not just vocal forum members that have had this problem. Most professional reviews for the W4500 (WHF in execption) have have had bleeding issues with the sets. Google around and you'll find them.

Because they got sent the same faulty review set from Sony.....It did the rounds (while we kept onto our samples for Awards judging. We also got a fresh 46W4500 sample for the Show - where it and the 40W4500 clearly displayed for three days without a smidge of clouding.)

Ahhhh. Now that makes sense now! However, if its rogue sets/ faulty batch it still doesn't explain how my original w4500 had backlight bleeding issues and its replacement, made two months afterwards suffers from exactly the same problem.

 

[Anonymous]

ElectroMan:And although plasmas are great, make sure you're not one of the small number of people who notice the 'phosphor trail' effect, as that could be just as irritating as the LCD backlight problem!
Good point. Both technologies have their drawbacks. Personally I like Panny's Right now. But it's so subjective.

I do find this "rogue television" lark a bit dubious though...

 

[Anonymous]

Yup, Sony have claimed there's no technical faults with the sets. Seems to be sloppy quality control or design issue. Seems to be just as many duff sets out there as good ones. In fact, my suspicion is that nearly all of them suffer from backlight bleed and the vast majority of Sony customers are non techy joe publics who have no idea about LCD technology and wont notice the problem.

 

[Clare Newsome]

EHonda:
In fact, my suspicion is that nearly all of them suffer from backlight bleed and the vast majority of Sony customers are non techy joe publics who have no idea about LCD technology and wont notice the problem.

Baseless supposition. We've yet to see (other than pics/tales on Forums) an affected set, and we know exactly what to look for.

You might as well reverse that supposition (and run the risk of being equally wrong) and say 'the vast majority of problem sets are ones that haven't been calibrated and a set at maximum backlight out of the box'

There are problem sets - people should (post-calibration) return them to their retailer if they have an issue.

Still, fully agree that Sony has hardly covered itself in glory on this....

 

[Anonymous]

Well, from experience - I've had two sets, made two months apart, both properly calibrated -backlight on min- which display exactly the same bleeding. Granted, the replacement set didn't suffer as much clouding but still bleeds in the top corners. Points to a more wider range problem than a rogue batch. One thought, perhaps the WHF sets were made in a different factory? Do you guys get the same models that they punt off to the public?

 

[Clare Newsome]

Yes, we've had three different samples of the 46W4500 (again, made a while apart), and two of the 40W4500 - plus we've seen them in action elsewhere, and several of us have urged friends/family to buy. All standard sets, all with no problem.

Were we lucky, or were you (and others) unlucky? This is what I'd love Sony to clarify further...

 

[Anonymous]

raypalmer:ElectroMan:And although plasmas are great, make sure you're not one of the small number of people who notice the 'phosphor trail' effect, as that could be just as irritating as the LCD backlight problem!
Good point. Both technologies have their drawbacks. Personally I like Panny's Right now. But it's so subjective. I do find this "rogue television" lark a bit dubious though...

What is phosphor trail anyway?

 

[ElectroMan]

The light of the three different coloured phosphors in a plasma screen cell decay at different rates - red blue & green, with green being slowest. When a bright (typically white) image moves quickly across the screen some people can detect a green/yellow tinge or trail behind it. Apparently only a minority of people are likely to notice them, and then mostly in a dark room (so it may not be apparent in the typical brightly-lit store).

Returning to the W4500 debate, EHonda said:

"In fact, my suspicion is that nearly all of them suffer from backlight
bleed and the vast majority of Sony customers are non techy joe publics
who have no idea about LCD technology and wont notice the problem."

- doesn't that mean they'll be happier then?

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:
Were we lucky, or were you (and others) unlucky? This is what I'd love Sony to clarify further...

Yes. Trust me, after forking out the cash this is the ultimate question I would like answered. At the minute it seems to be a £1000 lottery ticket to what you get. However, the backlight bleeding issue has been confirmed on the 52", the 46" and the 40" (a quick google search backs up this statement) and it appears that Sony have a history with this problem. I still cant help thinking that it is a flaw with the entire range - albeit not every set.

 

[Anonymous]

EHonda:
Yes. Trust me, after forking out the cash this is the ultimate question I would like answered. At the minute it seems to be a £1000 lottery ticket to what you get. However, the backlight bleeding issue has been confirmed on the 52", the 46" and the 40" (a quick google search backs up this statement) and it appears that Sony have a history with this problem. I still cant help thinking that it is a flaw with the entire range - albeit not every set.

Exactly!! This is why i have NOW decided after reading all the complaints lately to ditch the idea of purchasing ANY of the Sony range... I will either go for a different brand, or turn to plasma, but not sure which yet, but it would have to be around the same size.. i am still, however, going to visit several retailers on saturday and try and track down a number of 46W4500's and see if there are any noticeable and consistent flaws between them, purely for peace of mind!