Warranties On TVs/Consumer Law/Ethics

Alec

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Sorry about teh vague title - no one should really be up at this hour lol!

Anyway, im about to buy a new tv and wanted to sound out people's thoughts on the worth of warranties.

generally, i dislike them, and think theyre just a great money spinner. i also think theres no reason why my brand spanking new tv should have a problem for ages.

anyway, i want to buy from a local indepaendant store. partly becasue of the 5 year warranty (going rate approx 250 i think) panasonic are currently offering on some sets (as long as you buy from a bricks andf mortar store); because they will assemble evrerything for me (i have mobility difficulties, plus id rather they mess it up than my friends or family); and because they have demoed the set for me, and i want the nice warm moral glow ill get from buying from them.

i could, however, get it much cheaper - tho without the warranty and the help - from many other places. where would i be if it did go wrong and i had no warranty? im given to believe it would be different if there was a problem in the first 12 months...?

i understand the argument that in a few years ill be able to afford a new one anyway, but it will push my finances. if things went wrong in a couple of years, id be sick if it couldnt be sorted. in 5 or 6 years, and i may be able to consider spending the money again.

This probably isnt the most concise post ever - apologies.

If anyone has any thoughts about any of this id love to read them.
 

Andy Clough

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Hi AL7478

Without question I'd buy from your independent dealer and get the 5-year warranty. Not only do you get the installation done, but you're covered if anything goes wrong. Yes, of course you can buy cheaper on the internet, but getting repairs done if you haven't bought from a 'bricks and mortar' retailer can be a nightmare. It's why we so often recommend John Lewis, because they offer good customer service and a 5-year warranty too.
 

Alec

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Just in case i can catch anyone browsing this evening.

But i think my mind is made up, so ill leave it after tonight if there are no responses to...er...respond to.
 

bigblue235

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al7478:Sorry about teh vague title - no one should really be up at this hour lol! Anyway, im about to buy a new tv and wanted to sound out people's thoughts on the worth of warranties. generally, i dislike them, and think theyre just a great money spinner.

They are a money spinner for the retailer, no doubt, but then, they are worth if it if it gives you peace of mind. You'll read a lot of misinformation about this sort of stuff on the net unfortunately, along the lines of 'it has to last 5 years' or 'you're entitled to a free replacement in the first year' (etc., etc.) . It leads to people having entirely the wrong idea, and thinking warranties are unnecessary. Personally, even though I could argue to toss with retailers about this kinda stuff (it used to be my job) I now have most of my products warrantied. I don't have them warrantied with retailers though, I go through insurance companies instead. You can usually get more comprehensive, and cheaper, cover that way.

i also think theres no reason why my brand spanking new tv should have a problem for ages

So does the law really, you just need to be aware of your rights and be happy to put your case properly if something does go wrong. The Sale of Goods act (or the points that apply in these sort of cases anyway) really isn't too long to read, I'd recommend it. It can be quite reassuring!

anyway, i want to buy from a local indepaendant store. partly becasue of the 5 year warranty (going rate approx 250 i think) panasonic are currently offering on some sets (as long as you buy from a bricks andf mortar store); because they will assemble evrerything for me (i have mobility difficulties, plus id rather they mess it up than my friends or family); and because they have demoed the set for me, and i want the nice warm moral glow ill get from buying from them.

Glad to hear it
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Nice warm moral glows are always good!

i could, however, get it much cheaper - tho without the warranty and the help - from many other places. where would i be if it did go wrong and i had no warranty? im given to believe it would be different if there was a problem in the first 12 months...?

You will have a warranty of some sort, but I guess you're referring to the extended warranty? If it does go wrong outwith that year, then you still have some rights, but it's all dependent on what actually goes wrong with the set. The whole 'Flat panels are impossible/too expensive to repair' rubbish that salespeople spout is nonsense. In their defense, they're told to do it, but if it was financially pointless to repair a set then they wouldn't do it themselves!

i understand the argument that in a few years ill be able to afford a new one anyway, but it will push my finances. if things went wrong in a couple of years, id be sick if it couldnt be sorted. in 5 or 6 years, and i may be able to consider spending the money again. This probably isnt the most concise post ever - apologies. If anyone has any thoughts about any of this id love to read them.

It is a little tricky to explain how things would go, without knowing specifically what would go wrong with the set! Generally though, if a product is out of warranty and what's wrong with it is due to faulty workmanship or accepted issues (such as the 'purple snake' problem with earlier Panasonic plasmas) then you could be onto a free repair. If it's wear and tear, or something you can't prove is the manufacturers fault, you may have to pay.

If you have any specific scenarios that you're worried about, along the lines of 'what would happen in the event of xxxxx' then I'd probably be more help!
 

Cofnchtr

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Hi Al,

I was swithering what to do too - I could get my TV in the local 'white goods store' almost £300 cheaper but my local shop is a Panasonic dealer, offered a 5 year warranty and would bring the TV to my door etc.

I went with my local dealer in the knowledge that everytime I deal with them, I'll be instantly recognised and not just another sales figure, I was dealing with someone who knew what he was talking about and was able to demo my choices for me - nothing was too much trouble and I was keeping (in my own little way) my local high street going.

You will have peace of mind when you watch the TV that you have a 5 year guarantee.

I hope whatever route you go down you enjoy your choice.

Cheers.

Cofnchtr.
 

Messiah

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Just to back up what everyone has said, I would get the warranty from the shop.

I have recently had to get items repaired and it was certainly a relief being able to walk into the shop and get it sorted. Much harder and more stressful from an online dealer.

Also nice to build a repore with a dealer who will help you out in future and helps keep them on the high street where we reallt want them!!
 

Big Aura

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If it helps you make up your mind, a good friend works for a nationwide white goods retailer.

The mark-up on the equipment is poor, so they really hard-sell the extended warranties (even offering very healthy bonuses to staff who exceed after-sales warranty sales targets). The profit margins are immense on these. Taking that into consideration, I would either go for the John Lewis option (5years for free) or (if you really feel bound to your helpful local store) buy a warranty independent of what he's offering.

Your statutory rights are as set out in the Sale of Goods legislation, but this generally translates into one year from the manufacturer (not sure how robust this is if you want to kick up a fuss!).

Unfortunately, our disposable lifestyle has lead to many products being designed with a life-span of 12.1 month...!
 

Alec

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well it was certainly worth a bump.

bigblue - i keep meaning to read it - one of those things one might eternally intend to do. i mustnt let that be the case tho. ill try to think of some hypotheticals. and there may be other things in your post i need to come back to you on.

what worries me is this thing of having to prove the fault and where fault for...the fault, lies. i find it hard to think of an instance in which i could do that - it must often happen that you end up with a your word against mine situation, where you have to depend on goodwill.

big aura - to be clear, the shop arent offering the warranty as such, its from panasonic. i believe this is happening in many, or all, shops just now on certain panny products.
 

bigblue235

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Big Aura:Your statutory rights are as set out in the Sale of Goods legislation, but this generally translates into one year from the manufacturer (not sure how robust this is if you want to kick up a fuss!).

SoGA actually allows you many rights outwith the first year
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One year is the minimum period that a manufacturer can warranty these goods for, but it isn't the cut-off date for comsumers to complain about said goods, if they have a genuine case. You may have to complain in a different way, but you can definitely still complain. You may only get a partial settlement, but it's better than nowt
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al7478:well it was certainly worth a bump. bigblue - i keep meaning to read it - one of those things one might eternally intend to do. i mustnt let that be the case tho.

You can find the whole document via Google, and also many consumer advice sites. Take anything unofficial with a pinch of salt though (including my own posts, obv!) as there are many well-intentioned but ill-informed people out there trying to help. Bargain forums, for example, are often full of Chinese Whispers type takes on consumer rights
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I've had folk storm into my shops saying "I want to return this under the Sale of Goods Act", then you ask them to explain why and they're stumped! You need to know which part of the act relates to your complaint, or more commonly, if it relates at all!

ill try to think of some hypotheticals. and there may be other things in your post i need to come back to you on.

Not a problem, be happy to help
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what worries me is this thing of having to prove the fault and where fault for...the fault, lies. i find it hard to think of an instance in which i could do that - it must often happen that you end up with a your word against mine situation, where you have to depend on goodwill.

Well, that is a tricky aspect, but any retailer worth their salt will try to help you. It costs them nothing and is a great way of getting good faith with the consumer. The retailers themselves rarely take the financial hit from a faulty product, and it costs them nothing for goods to go back for examination.

Technically though, you could be asked to prove a fault on a product while it's still under warranty. Although the minumum warranty is for a year, the onus is on the consumer to prove the fault after 6 months. Most retailers don't bother with this though, as long as it's in warranty of a sort, they usually take them back.

If you can make a reasonable diagnosis of a problem, then you can search for it on the web. The 'Purple Snakes' thing with Panasonics, the HDCP issue with Pioneers and Sky HD, and other similar things are all well documented, so if you find your problem documented by others on the web, it makes it easier to make your own case.
 

rob_981

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I know you obviously want to give your custom to your local store, but empiredirect.co.uk are selling selected TV's with a free 5 year guarantee. Just thought I should let you know - I was very impressed with their service, and the guarantee was a nice bonus.
 

Alec

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not a proper reply, sorry, just a general musing.

this thing about wear and tear. its frustrating that the time an item should last isnt better defined, item for item. because part of the reason why people dont by extended warranties is they think "well, it shouldnt have a problem in x years, unless i do something silly".

If you do do aomehthing very obviously silly, you deserve all you get, but most do'nt. in other words, why shouldnt someone say "well, it should still be fine, so its your problem"?

The absence of some official word on how long certain items should last seems to be a key factor here. Saying that, wouldnt there be precedents for some items? but then, possibly to answer myself, i spose they wouldnt stay relevant over long periods...
 

bigblue235

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al7478:not a proper reply, sorry, just a general musing. this thing about wear and tear. its frustrating that the time an item should last isnt better defined, item for item

Yeah, it's tricky. But it's nigh on impossible for anyone to make a rule that a certain item should last a certain length of time. For instance, I was told the bulb in my TV should last for around 3-4 years, but it's gone after 18 months. I've been off work for that period though, so it's probably had as much use as an average 3 year old telly. So wear and tear has to come into it in cases like this, otherwise people could run things into the ground and say 'But it should last for x years' and take advantage.

because part of the reason why people dont by extended warranties is they think "well, it shouldnt have a problem in x years, unless i do something silly". If you do do aomehthing very obviously silly, you deserve all you get, but most do'nt. in other words, why shouldnt someone say "well, it should still be fine, so its your problem"?

Common sense should come into it, but it rarely does. There will always be a certain type of punter trying to take advantage of the system, and a certain type of retailer who tries to wriggle out of their responsibilities. Really irritates me when retailers do it, because as previously mentioned, they rarely have to foot the bill. That doesn't mean the retailer should take advantage of the manufacturer by getting them to repair things FOC that aren't genuine, but there should be some come and go. In my experience, you're far more likely to get that 'come and go' from somewhere that prides itself of service (such as John Lewis) or somewhere small and friendly, like your local dealer. That sort of relationship with the seller is invaluable.

The absence of some official word on how long certain items should last seems to be a key factor here. Saying that, wouldnt there be precedents for some items? but then, possibly to answer myself, i spose they wouldnt stay relevant over long periods...

Yup, as you say, they become irrelevant overtime. TV's were supposed to last 7 years or so, but that was when there were only 10 models on the market, all made the same way
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There's such a huge variety on the market now, and the screens are used in such different ways, that it's hard to create a rule encompassing them all.

A modern set should still last 'reasonable' time though, so that's where common sense really has to come in. If you have the set a while, and are demanding a free repair for something that wasn't an inherent fault, that's unreasonable. Likewise, if the retailer washes his hands of any problems after the initial warranty period is up, thats unreasonable too. It really has to be worked out between buyer and seller. Or preferably: buyer, seller and consumer advice!
 

Alec

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bigblue235 (and all) - thanks. there seenms to be a lot of room for interpretation and negoriation, really.

i had a quick google for the act at stupid o'clock this morning, and realised it isnt quite as easy to follow as id thought - and i think i was only reading edited highlights, as opposed to the real thing, as it were. still, i shall percevere and make sure i get a copy.

As to the immediate situation, im pretty sure now that ill go with the local indie i mentioned.
 

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