Vintage amp Vs New

[Chrismcd23]

Hi there,

I wonder if you can help highlight the pro's and con's regarding a vintage pioneer amp vs something new. In terms of the new I'm weighing up one of the Rega amps (Elicit R or Elex R) or the Arcam A19 to pair with a Rega P1 TT and B&W 685's. I may add a CD player at some point but I tend to stream via my mac so my main focus is which amp to buy for the TT.

In terms of the vintage I've been looking at the ones below as asthetically they look amazing however I'm worried that they may be style of substance.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Pioneer-SX-939-Stereo-Receiver-Amplifier-Tuner-Amp-HI-FI-RARE-/271881539092?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Pioneer-SX-1010-Stereo-Receiver-Amp-Tuner-MONSTER-/271902710317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4eaa1a2d

Has anyone heard one of the vintage amps compared to the new ones? and do you think i'm better off going new given the amazing reviews for the Rega's and Arcam?

Many thanks for your comments, shopping for a new amp is a lot of fun.

Chris.

 

[ifor]

You could do worse than contact Rob at www.amplabs.co.uk. He's currently got my 30 year old Technics SUV-303 in for service.

 

[Chrismcd23]

Thanks ifor, I'll call Rob tomorrow to get his thoughts.

Cheers.

 

[matthewpiano]

Old can be gold but, ultimately, it is still old and old things wear out, even amplifiers.

Arcam A19, Creek Evolution 50a, Rega Brio-r, Rega Elex-r - all under £1k and all extremely capable amplifiers, brand new and with manufacturer's warranty.

 

[Al ears]

I agree. Old is old. You can get a gem but its a bit of a minefield. You'll need to find a good and qualified technician to service most of them as a precaution so factor this cost into your budget. Modern amps have so much more flexibility and of course warranty.

 

[ifor]

I agree. Old is old. You can get a gem but its a bit of a minefield. You'll need to find a good and qualified technician to service most of them as a precaution so factor this cost into your budget. Modern amps have so much more flexibility and of course warranty.

Which is why I pointed in the direction of Amplabs.

 

[lindsayt]

Old can be gold but, ultimately, it is still old and old things wear out, even amplifiers.

Arcam A19, Creek Evolution 50a, Rega Brio-r, Rega Elex-r - all under £1k and all extremely capable amplifiers, brand new and with manufacturer's warranty.

This is scaremongering.

There's a reasonable chance that a properly engineered vintage ampifier that's currently working fine will carry on working fine for the rest of our lifetimes without anyone doing anything to it whatsoever.

All the amplifiers you mention sound flawed when compared to a properly engineered top of the range vintage amplifer. All the amplifiers you mention will depreciate. A top of the range vintage amplifier won't, if it's bought at the right price.

In the event of an amplifier going wrong, you can take it to a technician to get fixed for a reasonable cost.

 

[plastic penguin]

The fact remains that anything mechanical will eventaully wear. If a vintage amp has been pampered by a pedantic owner or by a specialist dealer, there shouldn't be too much to worry about. Assuming, of course, they have the paperwork to prove the pampering.

Like old cars, it would be foolhardy to buy without history, whether it's a file rammed full of bills or a proper dealer stamps.

 

[lindsayt]

Chrismcd, you might want to check out German ebay for deals like this:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/ONKYO-M-5060-High-End-Endstufe-TOPP-/161722554706?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item25a76a5952

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Onkyo-M5570-Top-Zustand-mit-Holzseiten-unbedingt-ansehen-/321782690809?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4aebbe33f9

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sony-TA-F7-Verstarker-/161708277428?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item25a6907eb4

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sony-TA-F-870-ES-Top-Vollverstarker-Champagner-mit-Holzseiten-Fernbedienung-/161718462508?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item25a72be82c

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nakamichi-PA-7-Endstufe-/151692085986?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item23518d8ae2

 

[lindsayt]

The only mechanical item in a power amp is the on off switch. And you don't even have to use that. Switch it off at the plug!

Anyone with a digital only system, has a good chance of getting the best sound by not having an active pre-amp. You just need a volume control and a power amp. The worlds best volume controls (Shinkoh stepped attenuators) can be bought for about £300.

Amplifiers are not like old cars. They are not left out and driven in all weathers. They do not have internal combustion. They do not have stressed mechanical components. They do not have to drive over sleeping policemen. They do not have components that will spin round a billion times in their lifetimes.

Amplifiers are simple components. They are less complex than your car audio system - which is but a very minor part of your car. Amplifiers lead very cushy lives.

Let me put it this way. How long do you expect the light switches to last in your house? And the front door lock? They are mechanical items. According to your logic they'll wear out and won't last a lifetime! According to my understanding, there's every chance they will last a lifetime. Just like a properly engineered amplifier.

Just because Naim amplifiers are so poorly engineered from a longevity without service point of view, doesn't mean to say that other amplifiers are.

 

[plastic penguin]

In vintage amps you have on/off switch, tone controls, some have midrange as well as bass and treble. Some even have graphic equalizers, sliders....

Agree, not so much of an issue with modern amps.

 

[lindsayt]

3 of the vintage amplifiers I linked to only have an on off switch. They do not have tone controls.

And, in any event, tone controls and volume controls are very simple devices. They will get used an average of what 0.1, 0.5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 times a day? There's every chance they will last a lifetime without service. If they do go wrong, a squirt of contact cleaner is usually all that is needed to get them working again. Worst case is they go wrong in a way that they have to be replaced. Big deal. A technician will do that £70. It's not like they've got to spend all day taking the gearbox off the engine to replace the clutch.

 

[matthewpiano]

Not scaremongering, just the truth. As anything ages it wears. I've experienced it for myself when dabbling with older gear. Granted amplifiers are much better at lasting than CD players, but they still start throwing up faults eventually.

As for the 'flawed' accusation levelled at modern amplifiers, I've never heard ANY amp new or old, budget or high-end, which isn't flawed in some way. Hi-Fi is a constant compromise.

 

[Al ears]

All of my old amps have required attention at some point (dry joints, failed or noisy volume pots, fuses) and I would hazard a guess and say this is normal. If the OP is happy with things like this then suggest he looks at some amps that have been mentioned.

 

[lindsayt]

Well I've experienced the opposite. I own 8 vintage amplifiers of various sorts. All of them original and unserviced. All of them working fine.

I've done an amplifier bake-off against the Rega Elex-r, which sounded so bad that I wondered whether it had drifted way off spec.

I'd be happy to do another bake-off / comparative demo against any other sub £1000 modern amplification.

Matthewpiano, Plasticpenguin, would you like to speculate on when any of my 8 vintage amplifiers will actually develop a fault of any sort?

 

[philpot1001]

ive got an amp thats now 17 years old, never had so much of an issue with it, its good as new. TBH the only rigors it goes through are being turned on and playing music, i may tweak the volume slightly depending on the music but not a lot.

Thats the kiss of death now - no doubt it will blow up tomorrow.

 

[plastic penguin]

@lindsayt

I would've replied last night but my internet connection went down.

I'm with Matthew and Al on this one: My friends parents Ferguson, which had slide controls went wonky, another friend's Fisher Receiver had problems, my old JVC and Pioneer amps had volume and switch issues, as did my old Arcam Alpha 7R. And all these amps were purchased brand new.

It's true the issues on amps aren't as bad as CDPs or turntables, but age still takes its toll eventually.

 

[Chrismcd23]

Thanks all for your input. Im not to concerned with the risk of a vintage amp faulting as I've bought a couple of brand new components that failed after 2 years. Luckily letters to the manufacturer ensured I got both replaced at no cost.

I guess the only way I'll know is to buy both options and see which I prefer the sound of.

thanks again.

 

[lindsayt]

Matthew, Plastic, Al, all the vintage amps that have developed problems for you, what make and model were they and how much did it cost to fix?

Maybe we can establish some sort of anecdotal trend here? As in which amps are likely to develop which faults and which are likely to keep going.

 

[ifor]

This is my daughter's description of the issue with her 1984 Technics SUV-303.

"Usually, when I initially put music on, the left hand speaker does not do anything. To get it to work I either turn the volume up very high so that it kicks in, or if I change the input and put it back to the correct one, it usually works. This happens whatever the input. It does sometimes also cut out while music is playing".

 

[Al ears]

ive got an amp thats now 17 years old, never had so much of an issue with it, its good as new. TBH the only rigors it goes through are being turned on and playing music, i may tweak the volume slightly depending on the music but not a lot.

Thats the kiss of death now - no doubt it will blow up tomorrow.

I've never had one that actually did that.

Mind you seventeen years is not a whole lot compared to the age of some amps being discussed.