Velodyne DD-12 (or 10) or ATC C4 sub or ...?

[AlmaataKZ]

Hi,
I am thinking of getting a sub to complement ATC SCM 50 AT SL. Obvous choice would be one of the ATC subs (C4) but it is quite expensive. What less expensive subs could partner the ATCs well? My local dealer has recommneded Velodyne DD-12 or DD-10 (they also have bas management which ATC C4 does not have). Any experience with these? Any other recommendations?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

AlmaataKZ:Hi,
I am thinking of getting a sub to complement ATC SCM 50 AT SL. Obvous choice would be one of the ATC subs (C4) but it is quite expensive. What less expensive subs could partner the ATCs well? My local dealer has recommneded Velodyne DD-12 or DD-10 (they also have bas management which ATC C4 does not have). Any experience with these? Any other recommendations?

Hi AlmaataKZ

I don't say this likey but IME the only sub woofers that i have heard over the years that gel well effectively with ATC's main speakers are ATC's own sub woofers. This is even more so with with models such as Active SCM50's and their Super Linear Magnet Technology bass drive units.

ATC's C4 sub woofer has a super clean bass and is a great match for the SCM50's however if you have to compromise than ATC's C1 with its low distortion and clean bass is still likely to be a better bet and will help fill the bottom end nicely whilst not moving too far away from the accuracy of the Active SCM50's.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

The cheapest I'd dare to put with them would be the MK MX250, although ideally the MX350. But then you're up into the £2k plus mark, so you may as well pay the little extra and stick with the C4, which you know you'll get a great match from. As good as the Velodyne's may be for their size, we've found the laws of physics can't be bent enough to be able to get a great all round peformance from a subwoofer. Size matters.....small cabinets have limitations.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Thanks, gents. What about Velodyne's (or anybody else's) bass management. ATC subs do not have it and I have found that my curretn sub has uneven response which a bass mgt system would sort out. What if I get this with a sub without a bass mgt system e.g. ATC C4. Or are you saying it would have a flat response and would not need bass mgt?

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

I cannot help you with the Velodyne or the ATC subs - Rick and David are best placed for that but another option is the Paradigm range. The whole product line up can be used with their room correction kit. This is the same softare ( albeit one channel ) that is found in the flagship Anthem processors and I can testify that it works absolute wonders.

It will not save you any money over the ATC design and if that sub works in your room it will more than likely be the obvious choice. If you have issues with it though the Paradigm may be a good choice.

 

[Frank Harvey]

AlmaataKZ:Thanks, gents. What about Velodyne's (or anybody else's) bass management. ATC subs do not have it and I have found that my curretn sub has uneven response which a bass mgt system would sort out. What if I get this with a sub without a bass mgt system e.g. ATC C4. Or are you saying it would have a flat response and would not need bass mgt?

Some subs come with basic bass management, some don't. If you really want to get into bass management, I'd buy a separate dedicated box that will be far more in depth than it is built into a sub. At least this way you can choose any sub you like, rather than choosing from a very small range of subs with BM. It's hard enough trying to find a decent sub, without limiting the choice down further!

 

[caddyhound]

The Velodyne Ultra range of subs have a built in DSP set up so could be an alternative if you have room issues.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

AlmaataKZ:Thanks, gents. What about Velodyne's (or anybody else's) bass management. ATC subs do not have it and I have found that my curretn sub has uneven response which a bass mgt system would sort out. What if I get this with a sub without a bass mgt system e.g. ATC C4. Or are you saying it would have a flat response and would not need bass mgt?

Hi AlmaataKZ

Ime using non ATC subs (regardless of how good they are) with their main speakers funnily enough gives an uneven response. The C4 sub woofer is simple and has been effectively engineered in terms of its drive unit, amplification, cabinet construction and userbility (controls). The controls on the C4 sub are (the same as on the C2 sub which i use btw) level, contour and low pass. These controls are more than adequate enough (without the need for processing or the need to rely on external devices) to help dial the C4 sub to the Active SCM50's with ease.

The C4 with its same state of the art SLMT low distortion drive unit bass unit as used in the Active SCM50s' (be it a 12" version) has a super clean presentation which will match the flat and honest presentation of the Active SCM50's.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[AlmaataKZ]

ATC C2 sub? Is this a discontinued model?
It looks like the question really is - are the potential gains of bass mgt worth switching to a non-ATC sub and does it achieve much over what can be achieved with the controls avaialbe on the ATC? Any cost saving is a bonus.

Re ATC controls: level - understand, low pass - understand (the upper freqency range limit of the sub). What is contour - sharpness of the fall-off at the edge frequency? If so, at which end - high, low or both?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Those controls you'll find on many subs like REL and MJ Acoustics. They will tailor the sound a little more than just crossover frequency and volume, but they're no substitute for real bass management. I would go with an ATC sub and see how you get on with it. You may feel that what you get is fine, with no major nasties and is in no need of any sort of management. But if you do run into any issues, you can add something at a later date like the Audyssey system.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Well, this is what I wanted to do - have a trial of the ATC sub together with the speakers. However, my dealer (beign excellent re the speakers trial) could not do a trial for the sub. If I had a trial my decision would have been easy. Now I feel blindfolded. How the hell do I choose a sub?!

Buying a piece of kit worth 1-2.5 grand has to be right and long-term and without a home trial is out of the question.

 

[MattSPL]

I was searching for info on the C4 sub myself as im going to make the move to ATC actives and came across this thread.

I currently use ATC scm19's and a REL Strata 5 sub. It wont work in an active 2ch setup as it can only be connected at high level(to the amplifiers speaker binding posts) or at low level in an Av setup with a single run sub cable.

Im probably going to go for some used scm20asl's or if im allowed, some scm50asl's.
Either way, ill be looking at an ATC sub, probably the C4. No other make of sub would do justice to the active atc's as the Super linear(SL) magnet technology used in them has so little distortion, a lesser sub would just add distortion.

All ATC sub's C2 and upwards use SL magnet technology so provide cleaner more accurate bass than anything else, especially when paired with active ATC's.
The ATC sub's also allow for twin balanced and unbalanced connection which is perfect for having the choice on connection from your pre amp.
Musicraft in Derby would be your best bet for a demo of the various ATC sub's and you'd probably be able to hear the sub's setup with scm50asl's so you know what suits your tastes.

Let me know how you get on.

Cheers
Matt