Marantz CD63MkII + Audiolab 8000S + Mission 752 with decent connects and cables. This system is now over 15 years old and just seems to sound dull. I want a sparkling and livelier sound. Is there a weak link or should I start anew?
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matthewpiano
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Try swapping the Audiolab out for a Pioneer A400. Better amp IMO (good though the Audiolab is) and it will bring the sparkle back. Its a great partner for the Marantz and should work really well with the Missions. Won't cost more than about £100 for a really nice one either.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
one off:no thats an inferior amp try cyrus or naim or change speakers - focal or ma..
In what way is the Pioneer A400 'inferior'? Its one of the best budget amps ever made and the ideal partner for a CD63.
It all depends whether the OP wants to change only the amp, or upgrade the whole system. A CD63 with a Cyrus amp sounds like potential for a paint stripping session to me.
I think we need to know more. Musical preferences? Budget? Is the CD63 working well, or is it getting a bit cranky?
There may be absolutely no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
In what way is the Pioneer A400 'inferior'? Its one of the best budget amps ever made and the ideal partner for a CD63.
It all depends whether the OP wants to change only the amp, or upgrade the whole system. A CD63 with a Cyrus amp sounds like potential for a paint stripping session to me.
I think we need to know more. Musical preferences? Budget? Is the CD63 working well, or is it getting a bit cranky?
There may be absolutely no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Thanks for advice. Funny, I had the opinion that my amp was ok and the least needed to be replaced. My music is mostly indie/alternative. Budget is still in the early stages of negotiation with the financial director (wife), but I'm hoping to get up to £700, so I could get a whole new set-up.The system just sounds tired and in need of some va.va.voom!
chebby
Well-known member
Yes I don't see why the Audiolab 8000S should go (assuming it is still working 100 percent.)
They are still made and are still considered a good amp.
This will at least make more of your £700, given that you only have to buy a new CDP and speakers with it, rather than a whole system.
They are still made and are still considered a good amp.
This will at least make more of your £700, given that you only have to buy a new CDP and speakers with it, rather than a whole system.
It's an interesting description with that kit. "Tired" I mean. The CD63 was hardly a shrinking violet in either the standard or KI versions. The 752 (is this the pre-Freedom version with the mesh dome tweeter? If so, it is a good one to hold on to) is anything but dull, but it will tend towards a lean presentation if the partnering kit is short on bass too. The 8000s I don't know too well, but I hear Audiolab can be quite bright, or at least, nearer to that end of the spectrum.
Is there a chance you might have a little too much brightness and less bass? A couple of thoughts here...I'd hang on to the speakers for now, as they work well and DO have a good bass presence if the other kit has that to offer. £700 will get you a decent new amp, or a possibly very good used model. Hell, half that will get you some good used kit.
The speakers don't need a huge amount to power them, anything from 25-150wpc, so a little off the wall, but give a thought to the Icon Audio Stereo 25 (http://www.iconaudio.co.uk/Stereo25.html), which you can get for £500 direct, plus they'll throw in a valve upgrade to EL34s into the bargain. Good reviews from WHF and Hi Fi World to name but two. I'd shortlist for sure.
Maybe a Rotel pre/power combo? Used will get you something like the RC03/RB03 set-up, new might see you get the 1072 integrated, that might do it. A NAD pre/power could be a good option. I think you might have a similar sonic preference to mine; liking the detail in the presentation, but the warmth to go with it wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps some of these options might help.
Oh, one other, ahead of the above, Musical Fidelity V-DAC. £130. Not necessarily better than the existing CD63 but possibly so and easily as good as.
Budget used effort - NAD 3020A. £60 should get you one, it's got bang for the buck, great bass, decent treble and a lovely midrange. Can't push it too hard though as it gets unruly when the dial gets to 10 o'clock, but it'll drive those Missions with ease and better than some. The trade off is a slightly reduced soundstage, but I hear good things about parterning it with a Linn LK100 power amp. You'd have enough change to take your good lady out to dinner in a good place and help keep the peace into the bargain...!
Is there a chance you might have a little too much brightness and less bass? A couple of thoughts here...I'd hang on to the speakers for now, as they work well and DO have a good bass presence if the other kit has that to offer. £700 will get you a decent new amp, or a possibly very good used model. Hell, half that will get you some good used kit.
The speakers don't need a huge amount to power them, anything from 25-150wpc, so a little off the wall, but give a thought to the Icon Audio Stereo 25 (http://www.iconaudio.co.uk/Stereo25.html), which you can get for £500 direct, plus they'll throw in a valve upgrade to EL34s into the bargain. Good reviews from WHF and Hi Fi World to name but two. I'd shortlist for sure.
Maybe a Rotel pre/power combo? Used will get you something like the RC03/RB03 set-up, new might see you get the 1072 integrated, that might do it. A NAD pre/power could be a good option. I think you might have a similar sonic preference to mine; liking the detail in the presentation, but the warmth to go with it wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps some of these options might help.
Oh, one other, ahead of the above, Musical Fidelity V-DAC. £130. Not necessarily better than the existing CD63 but possibly so and easily as good as.
Budget used effort - NAD 3020A. £60 should get you one, it's got bang for the buck, great bass, decent treble and a lovely midrange. Can't push it too hard though as it gets unruly when the dial gets to 10 o'clock, but it'll drive those Missions with ease and better than some. The trade off is a slightly reduced soundstage, but I hear good things about parterning it with a Linn LK100 power amp. You'd have enough change to take your good lady out to dinner in a good place and help keep the peace into the bargain...!
matthewpiano:one off:no thats an inferior amp try cyrus or naim or change speakers - focal or ma..In what way is the Pioneer A400 'inferior'? Its one of the best budget amps ever made and the ideal partner for a CD63. It all depends whether the OP wants to change only the amp, or upgrade the whole system. A CD63 with a Cyrus amp sounds like potential for a paint stripping session to me.I think we need to know more. Musical preferences? Budget? Is the CD63 working well, or is it getting a bit cranky?There may be absolutely no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
but audiolab back then was in a different class not saying the pioneer is bad but its a sideways move at best. think you havent herd a marantz cyrus combination better than you thinl.
but audiolab back then was in a different class not saying the pioneer is bad but its a sideways move at best. think you havent herd a marantz cyrus combination better than you thinl.
no thats an inferior amp try cyrus or naim or change speakers
Hey! ... its actually a very good amp if partnered with the correct cables and cd player and speakers ... I have a Pioneer A400 linked to a Marantz CD63 MKII K1 sig cd a pair of old B&W DM2 speakers (1st version-3way hand built transmission speakers)
add decent interconnects (Silver High Breed-cheap at £16 ) and some van den hul speaker cable and can compare favouably with many much more expensive setups that I have heard in listening rooms at hi-fi stores
Obviously there will be better amps but doubt at the prices for good Pioneer A400 off ebay (paid £70 for mine-boxed and hardly used) ...
Hey! ... its actually a very good amp if partnered with the correct cables and cd player and speakers ... I have a Pioneer A400 linked to a Marantz CD63 MKII K1 sig cd a pair of old B&W DM2 speakers (1st version-3way hand built transmission speakers)
add decent interconnects (Silver High Breed-cheap at £16 ) and some van den hul speaker cable and can compare favouably with many much more expensive setups that I have heard in listening rooms at hi-fi stores
Obviously there will be better amps but doubt at the prices for good Pioneer A400 off ebay (paid £70 for mine-boxed and hardly used) ...
but the audiolab back then a better class as ive said. you wouldnt compare a krell with a cambridge audio 640 for instance
or a ferrari with a fiesta
perhaps so, but when it comes to hi-fi, close your eyes and listen to the music, and ignore the badges and the prices and what tour mates say ... more expensive is not always better quality ... then make your decision based on what you hear and what you like
perhaps so, but when it comes to hi-fi, close your eyes and listen to the music, and ignore the badges and the prices and what tour mates say ... more expensive is not always better quality ... then make your decision based on what you hear and what you like
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Sorry but its all about the sound, not the badge. I've had both an Audiolab 8000S and a Pioneer A400 here and the Pioneer was far and away the better amp. I also preferred the Pioneer to a Cyrus 7 I had here for a few days.
Some of the Japanese amps are every bit as good, if not better than, the British offerings and they often have the 'sparkle' the OP refers to - a sparkle that I've found lacking on many so-called audiophile brands.
Some of the best amps ever made came from Pioneer and they are a company with a heritage of audio excellence that goes much further back than many brands.
I don't think brand snobbery gets anybody anywhere.
Some of the Japanese amps are every bit as good, if not better than, the British offerings and they often have the 'sparkle' the OP refers to - a sparkle that I've found lacking on many so-called audiophile brands.
Some of the best amps ever made came from Pioneer and they are a company with a heritage of audio excellence that goes much further back than many brands.
I don't think brand snobbery gets anybody anywhere.
Japanese amps - some were rubbish, but some were undoubtedly well worth the time and effort finding. I'd go along with matthewpiano's POV on that score, no question. The Sansui n17 series of the late 1970s, some of the Pioneer kit from the late eighties (their C73 and M73 pre/power is sublime I hear) a few of Sony's ES amps are worth checking out too. That's to name but three only and I'd reckon there's much more where they came from.
Wow, guys! I'm getting way out of my depth here. As much as I love my HiFi (its in the lounge with the only TV upstairs) I'm no expert on japanese/british kit preference. I was thinking of changing the Marantz for the new CD6003 and then toying with changing the speakers. I will definitely upgrade the speaker cables to, maybe, Silverscreen. I just was in the opinion that the original system didn't just need a tweek, more of a thunderflash up the arsenal!
matthewpiano
Well-known member
I still think your amp, good though it is, is responsible for the lack of sparkle. Its a very good amp in many ways but its not the most exciting or interesting listen.
I think the best thing you could do would be to book a demo with a good dealer and take your current set-up with you so that you can swap different components in and out.
I think the best thing you could do would be to book a demo with a good dealer and take your current set-up with you so that you can swap different components in and out.
get these speakers ... would love to buy them but wife will slap me! (used to have a pair) ... easy to drive and superb sound ... these might go for approx £600 and very rare ... 4 way hand built transmission speakers ... huge (1m high) and can be placed close to the wall .... have heard many speakers and not many come close to these ... these look in good condition
IMF TLS 80 ... ebay number 270446926853
had them connected to my old hi-fi (Rotel cd, and Pioneer A400 amp)
IMF TLS 80 ... ebay number 270446926853
had them connected to my old hi-fi (Rotel cd, and Pioneer A400 amp)
adrian911:Marantz CD63MkII + Audiolab 8000S + Mission 752 with decent connects and cables. This system is now over 15 years old and just seems to sound dull. I want a sparkling and livelier sound. Is there a weak link or should I start anew?
How about replacing old capacitors? Not a technical person, but 15 years sound quite long life for those components. I read that this can give a new life for computer motherbords, why not for audio?
How about replacing old capacitors? Not a technical person, but 15 years sound quite long life for those components. I read that this can give a new life for computer motherbords, why not for audio?
This might be an option; I think Musical Fidelity introduced a service for elderly Audiolab kit. However, if replacing like with like (whoever carries out the work) the spend involved to get the same sound back might not be what the OP's looking for. Fine if he likes the sound. An alternative would be to determine what other capacitors or op-amps might alter the sound. Needs a bit of research into the alternatives on that score and the resulting benefits. Preferably from a good few as opposed to just the odd one or two to get some degree on consistency on the results, so making an informed decision easier in the end.
Another amp suggestion: the new Onkyo A-5VL amp; this features some pretty impressive engineering under what looks like a fairly slim and unassuming lid. Here's the link to the site http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/A-5VL.html, should be on the market for £350 soon.
Another amp suggestion: the new Onkyo A-5VL amp; this features some pretty impressive engineering under what looks like a fairly slim and unassuming lid. Here's the link to the site http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/A-5VL.html, should be on the market for £350 soon.
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