Understanding DVD-Audio & SACD

[Overdose]

With DVD-A and SACD players, am I right in my understanding that the higher resolution information is decoded by the software in the machine and then sent to the DAC for conversion to analogue and that any external DAC could be used?

Are the benefits of SACD and DVD-A available in stereo format?

If the higher resolution is only available in multi-channel, is the only way to experience this, through an AV receiver/amplifier?

 

[the record spot]

Nope. There isn't an external DAC on the market that handles hi-res files currently, so you couldn't stream from an SACD machine out to any external DAC. Sorry! You rightly say that the only way to do this currently is via an AV amplifier that's enabled to handle the DSD conversion.

 

[Overdose]

Mmmmmm, just done some digging and it appears that you would need the DSD information converted to PCM and then via a DAC.

I wonder what goes on inside a dedicated SACD player? My OPPO converts DSD to PCM, but only outputs this via HDMI and not the digital outs. Not sure why, as many SACDs are 2 channel.

BTW, wouldn't 24/192 be considered high-res?

 

[the record spot]

Probably, possibly. Either way, SACD is a proprietry product belonging to Sony and Philips. You can get round it, but it's fiddly and for multi-channel needs a specific feature set. Even then, it can be fiddly. Spend time finding the best recordings, irrespective of audio format, would be my advice (after much bitter experience!).

 

[pete321]

The stereo 24bit/96kHz layer of DVD-Audio can be played back via SPDIF to a DAC. You can also rip the MLP surround and stereo layers of DVD-A discs to a file, the software is free, but illegal to use unlike backing up a CD.

 

[pete321]

Overdose: BTW, wouldn't 24/192 be considered high-res?

Yes it is, but not common. The DVD-Audio of REM's In Time (Best Of) has a 24bit 192kHz stereo version of the album on it. Personally, I can notice a big improvement over CD's 16/44.1 compared to 24/48 music, although 24/96 is the norm on DVD-Audio.

 

[pete321]

Overdose:My OPPO converts DSD to PCM, but only outputs this via HDMI and not the digital outs. Not sure why, as many SACDs are 2 channel.

From memory, my old Oppo BDP-83 would playback stereo DSD converted to 24/88.2 PCM sent via SPDIF to my DAC.

 

[Andrew Everard]

...Whereas SACD is 1-bit/2.8224MHz

 

[pete321]

Which is probably why it sounds the best of all hi-res formats to my ears. Blu-Ray Audio will never compete in sonic terms, as it's effectively just a DVD-Audio on a BD, but may succeed where the others failed as more households will have a blu-ray player.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Blu-ray Audio is usually hi-res PCM plus DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1

 

[Overdose]

So in short then, it seems that DVD-A discs can be played via a DAC if they are two channel, but SACD proprietary technology is protected by various rights and that audio can only be accessed via specific players?

So there must be some conversion from DSD to analogue other than a typical DAC?

 

[AudioPlaya]

pete321:The stereo 24bit/96kHz layer of DVD-Audio can be played back via SPDIF to a DAC.

Many DVD-A players will not do this with most discs (unless the publisher says so, and few if any do) to blanket output everything at full quality via SPDIF/TOSLINK would be against the copyright protection stuff in the specs, most will downsample the signal to 16/48pcm, some turn it off completely. There is a flag reserved in the disc specs so in theory the publisher can choose to let the player output the original bitrate via SPDIF but I'm yet to see or even hear of a disc that lets you do this.

There are a few mods out there to circumvent this. My soldering iron adventures usually end in disaster though

 

[Overdose]

All this, and some people wonder why high-res never really took off?

So it looks like, rather than any old cheap universal player and DAC, what I really need is a v. good universal player and DAC, unless there are any good UPs with digital in?

Arcam DV139 do the trick?

 

[pete321]

Overdose:

So in short then, it seems that DVD-A discs can be played via a DAC if they are two channel

Have a look at the free software 'DVD-A Explorer' or the free trial of 'DVD Audio Extractor' (bear in mind that their use maybe illegal - even if you own the original disc!). Both are capable of extracting the MLP layer of DVD-A's

 

[Overdose]

Took a while to find the solution, but SACD to Pc problem now solved.

 

[crang]

Hi please explain how you solved this problem? I have looked for answers to this for months!
I have a laptop into da magic. I was thinking of a MF blink USB to coaxial?
Thanks

 

[crang]

That should read Vlink!

 

[tyranniux42]

Which is probably why it sounds the best of all hi-res formats to my ears. Blu-Ray Audio will never compete in sonic terms, as it's effectively just a DVD-Audio on a BD, but may succeed where the others failed as more households will have a blu-ray player.

I did a lot of reading up on the differences between the two formats a good while ago and I think the general concensus was that SACD was inferior at higher frequencies than even a normal CD due to the 1 bit nature of the encoding, let alone a DVD audio. There is a lot of material out there on the formats so have a read. To be honest SACD through my Bluray player doesnt sound a patch on CDs through my gear but my bluray player was only a 10th of the cost of my CD player so I would be annoyed if it were the other way round.

Bluray audio sound fantastic though, I think PCM is generally considered to be about the best encoding method (if encoded in PCM at the studio that is, I believe if my memory serves me right that some studios use DSD for the master recordings and then convert for CD... I may be mis informed). The high res nature of it (same res as hi res downloads etc) is more than the human ear can detect anyway (24 bit is 144 db SNR) which is a figure much higher than any amplifier to my knowledge.

My only gripe is that my bluray player will only send out 48KHz out to my DAC so im not actually getting any benefit at all from my Bluray audios :-(

anyone know of a blu ray player that will output 96 or 192Khz 24bit through the optical or coaxial outputs?

 

[manicm]

As elsewhere, there is much more to a format than technical analysis would allow. Frankly a lot of poop has been said about SACDs high frequencies. It has been universally acknowledged that a good and proper SACD recording would always be superior to CD.

Either way both DVD-A and SACD were doomed due to marketing and strategic failures. The former because of its stupid implementation, the latter because of the expense a new format and related equipment incurred.

 

[ID.]

As elsewhere, there is much more to a format than technical analysis would allow. Frankly a lot of poop has been said about SACDs high frequencies. It has been universally acknowledged that a good and proper SACD recording would always be superior to CD.

Either way both DVD-A and SACD were doomed due to marketing and strategic failures. The former because of its stupid implementation, the latter because of the expense a new format and related equipment incurred.

Couldn't agree more.

I also think that on top of that, the average consumer can't really see any great benefits (unlike say the move from video to DVD which was easy foｒ anyone to see) and are more than satisfied with CD or lower quality. As long as it doesn't have hiss and crackles, etc. it sounds great.