Treble ambience

stereoman

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2016
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Just a question. What are the good speakers that can offer good treble (upper midrange) extension with ambience and good bass response ? Up to 1000 €. Any hint of full range bookshelves for a medium large room...? Looking for a second pair of speakers. Want to keep Leemas though. Too good to sell...
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
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These original model PMC FB1's are exactly what you are asking for, they are quite old but they look in very good nick.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Superb-PMC-FB1-Speakers-Transmission-Line-Floor-Standing-Monitor-Matching-Pair-/302422911116?hash=item4669cf688c:g:xlkAAOSwhf1Zmu23

Or you might get lucky with these much newer mint looking FB1i series .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-quality-PMC-FB1i-Main-Stereo-Speakers-/332366605507?hash=item4d6297ecc3:g:ENQAAOSw5bFZYNVZ

Of the two the i series model is preferable but either will do what you are asking for and more, they are much better than anything anywhere near a grand new. ( imo *smile* )

A review .

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue48/pmc_fb1.htm
 

CnoEvil

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Aug 21, 2009
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My choice would be Kef R300s.....which work well with Cyrus.

They cost 1k GBP, which isn't a mile away from 1k Euro.

They sound more like small Floorstanders.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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Sorry, not to be nitpicking but are we talking upper midrange (2-4kHz) or treble (otherwise known as presence 4-6kHz)? Then you're mentioning ambience which is in the region of brilliance 6-20kHz. The air you're looking for is usually around 12kHz.

However you look at it best speakers dealing with these qualities would usually have ribbon tweeters.

Looking at other side of spectrum. Not many bookshelves that go full range (20Hz-20kHz). Especially within the budget. They'd also not be very small, assuming you found a pair in budget specified.

Having said all that I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. And what qualities you are after.
 

rainsoothe

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Apr 30, 2012
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Imo, kef r300 are too flat sounding and boring (although, with Cyrus gear, they might make a great partner). But op seems to like his system bright, so Revel Concerta miggt be worth considering, and +1 to the PMC suggestion.
 

CnoEvil

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rainsoothe said:
Imo, kef r300 are too flat sounding and boring (although, with Cyrus gear, they might make a great partner). But op seems to like his system bright, so Revel Concerta miggt be worth considering, and +1 to the PMC suggestion.
What you call "Flat and boring", I call refined and natural...though they do need an amp that takes control.

What you call exciting, I'd probably call too forward, tiring and in your face...which is why I don't like Naim.

As you know, hifi selection can't be done through someone else's ears.
 

rainsoothe

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Apr 30, 2012
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CnoEvil said:
rainsoothe said:
Imo, kef r300 are too flat sounding and boring (although, with Cyrus gear, they might make a great partner). But op seems to like his system bright, so Revel Concerta miggt be worth considering, and +1 to the PMC suggestion.
What you call "Flat and boring", I call refined and natural...though they do need an amp that takes control.

What you call exciting, I'd probably call too forward, tiring and in your face...which is why I don't like Naim.

As you know, hifi selection can't be done through someone else's ears.
Of course it can't. But I checked the review on the Leema speakers, and it says they're exciting and full of energy. And OP is looking for even more of that, but with better oomph. Also, I do appreciate refined sounding stuff, like Harbeths. Kef R 300 were lifeless in comparison in my (limited) experience, hence the "imo" - in my opinion.
 

CnoEvil

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rainsoothe said:
Of course it can't. But I checked the review on the Leema speakers, and it says they're exciting and full of energy. And OP is looking for even more of that, but with better oomph. Also, I do appreciate refined sounding stuff, like Harbeths. Kef R 300 were lifeless in comparison in my (limited) experience, hence the "imo" - in my opinion.
My post was not meant as any sort of criticism.

How lively the R300s sound, can be amp dependent. If the amp is warm sounding, or if it doesn't have enough control, they can sound bassy and dull.
 

stereoman

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Mar 22, 2016
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Thanks a lot guys. I will try to check out every single option you gave to me. True Leemas are full of energy and I also veer towards "brighter" ( kinda "French" forward speaker sound ) but as said here, with a bit of more bass and treble extension. The Leemas as good as they are ( wonderful speakers ) can be unfortunately a bit small for one of the large and higher rooms I guess...will need to start with this PMC suggestion.
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Ordinarily I would suggest Dynaudio with Cyrus. But given the OP has Cyrus/Leema combo, they would probably sound too dull. With that in mind I would suggest Neat SX2 floorstanders or these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neat-Acoustics-Petite-SX-loudspeakers-/322645844346?hash=item4b1f30e17a:g:0mIAAOSww3tY7Qo-

Other than that, perhaps search out some PMC 'i' series.
 
insider9 said:
Sorry, not to be nitpicking but are we talking upper midrange (2-4kHz) or treble (otherwise known as presence 4-6kHz)? Then you're mentioning ambience which is in the region of brilliance 6-20kHz. The air you're looking for is usually around 12kHz.

However you look at it best speakers dealing with these qualities would usually have ribbon tweeters.

Looking at other side of spectrum. Not many bookshelves that go full range (20Hz-20kHz). Especially within the budget. They'd also not be very small, assuming you found a pair in budget specified.

Having said all that I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. And what qualities you are after.
I agree with you on both counts.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
From what I've heard backed up by reviews, I'd trial a set of small atc speakers, at that price. Better than those kef r300s and will give more grip and low end punch to your system.
 

stereoman

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2016
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Al ears said:
insider9 said:
Sorry, not to be nitpicking but are we talking upper midrange (2-4kHz) or treble (otherwise known as presence 4-6kHz)? Then you're mentioning ambience which is in the region of brilliance 6-20kHz. The air you're looking for is usually around 12kHz.

However you look at it best speakers dealing with these qualities would usually have ribbon tweeters.

Looking at other side of spectrum. Not many bookshelves that go full range (20Hz-20kHz). Especially within the budget. They'd also not be very small, assuming you found a pair in budget specified.

Having said all that I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. And what qualities you are after.
I agree with you on both counts.
So to speak - the ambience I am talking about is simply about "sound fullness" or "sonic ambiance" that is often compromised by lack of treble articulation and recessed mid range exactly in the region from 12 kHz above. That is why I mentioned French speaker sound because the French have this predilaction for upper mid range and forward treble but rarely they offer a smooth driver integration and good balance. What I am looking for is like Leema on steroids plus these upper mids. I think sth similar to JBL monitor sound you get from these music shops ( if I can so descirbe ). I also think the upper mid range is the most difficult to reproduce. Leemas do good job here, and I was thinking about Leemas Xone ( a bit above my budget ) but just want to try out a bit different sound with more diffusion.
 

rainsoothe

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Apr 30, 2012
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stereoman said:
Al ears said:
insider9 said:
Sorry, not to be nitpicking but are we talking upper midrange (2-4kHz) or treble (otherwise known as presence 4-6kHz)? Then you're mentioning ambience which is in the region of brilliance 6-20kHz. The air you're looking for is usually around 12kHz.

However you look at it best speakers dealing with these qualities would usually have ribbon tweeters.

Looking at other side of spectrum. Not many bookshelves that go full range (20Hz-20kHz). Especially within the budget. They'd also not be very small, assuming you found a pair in budget specified.

Having said all that I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. And what qualities you are after.
I agree with you on both counts.
So to speak - the ambience I am talking about is simply about "sound fullness" or "sonic ambiance" that is often compromised by lack of treble articulation and recessed mid range exactly in the region from 12 kHz above. That is why I mentioned French speaker sound because the French have this predilaction for upper mid range and forward treble but rarely they offer a smooth driver integration and good balance. What I am looking for is like Leema on steroids plus these upper mids. I think sth similar to JBL monitor sound you get from these music shops ( if I can so descirbe ). I also think the upper mid range is the most difficult to reproduce. Leemas do good job here, and I was thinking about Leemas Xone ( a bit above my budget ) but just want to try out a bit different sound with more diffusion. 
Oh... Then I totally misinterpreted your first post, and the Kef R 300 should indeed be on your list.
 
stereoman said:
Al ears said:
insider9 said:
Sorry, not to be nitpicking but are we talking upper midrange (2-4kHz) or treble (otherwise known as presence 4-6kHz)? Then you're mentioning ambience which is in the region of brilliance 6-20kHz. The air you're looking for is usually around 12kHz.

However you look at it best speakers dealing with these qualities would usually have ribbon tweeters.

Looking at other side of spectrum. Not many bookshelves that go full range (20Hz-20kHz). Especially within the budget. They'd also not be very small, assuming you found a pair in budget specified.

Having said all that I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. And what qualities you are after.
I agree with you on both counts.
So to speak - the ambience I am talking about is simply about "sound fullness" or "sonic ambiance" that is often compromised by lack of treble articulation and recessed mid range exactly in the region from 12 kHz above. That is why I mentioned French speaker sound because the French have this predilaction for upper mid range and forward treble but rarely they offer a smooth driver integration and good balance. What I am looking for is like Leema on steroids plus these upper mids. I think sth similar to JBL monitor sound you get from these music shops ( if I can so descirbe ). I also think the upper mid range is the most difficult to reproduce. Leemas do good job here, and I was thinking about Leemas Xone ( a bit above my budget ) but just want to try out a bit different sound with more diffusion.
I see. Perhaps something by Triangle might fulfill your requirements then. The Titus EZ might be a good place to start but, with everything, you are going to have to audition which always makes speaker recommendations very difficult;
 

tino

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Sep 29, 2011
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Leema Xone

Triangle Color floorstander

Elipson Planet L/M with the matching subwoofer

Cabasse Eole 3 with the Santorini subwoofer
 

CnoEvil

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Aug 21, 2009
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This review by Absolute Sound of the R300 mentions:

- "The sonic signature of the R-300 can be summarized in a few words—precision, pitch, forward, and focused. Its tonal balance conveys a smooth, slightly gung-ho midrange bias with little in the way of significant energy droops or peaks."

- "Bass reproduction is rock-solid into the midbass."

- " The three-way configuration gives the speaker a warmer and more dynamic midrange balance, and that warmth and dynamism extend into the lower mids and upper bass, where, to my ear, this little bit of enrichment makes the R-300 sound like it has slightly more low-frequency extension than it actually possesses."

- "Midrange dynamics are especially lively."

- "With solo piano the R-300 consistently revealed the nuance and sensitivity of the player’s touch on the keys. It was equally informative about other low-level cues, and about the fine gradations of dynamics that allow musicianship to envelope and immerse."

- "The R-300 creates a more laid-back sound."

- "Image focus is wonderfully precise."

- "The R-300 conveys tonal and timbral colors that are exceptional in this price range.."

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/kef-r-300-loudspeaker/
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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Mentioned earlier, I can confirm that the Adam X-Art tweeter, an updated Heil Air Motion Transformer, is quite superb. Really only available as part of their active designs, I have no idea how the OP could integrate them into his system.

A more straightforward approach would be the Martin Logan Motion15, an exuberant, lively design with a ribbon tweeter, under £1000 and very enjoyable.
 
davedotco said:
Mentioned earlier, I can confirm that the Adam X-Art tweeter, an updated Heil Air Motion Transformer, is quite superb. Really only available as part of their active designs, I have no idea how the OP could integrate them into his system.

A more straightforward approach would be the Martin Logan Motion15, an exuberant, lively design with a ribbon tweeter, under £1000 and very enjoyable.
Along those lines the Elac range offer very similar qualities.
 

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