[size=3 face=Calibri>Most people would probably say that the most important thing for a speaker to get right is the midrange and I'd have to go along with this myself.Most people would probably say that the most important thing for a speaker to get right is the midrange and I'd have to go along with this myself. [size=3 face=Calibri>However, with that said, I do not think that the midrange is the most challenging part of a speaker to get right.
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The pursuit of bass...
- Thread starter jaxwired
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I subscribe to that entirely. A good speaker is a good full-range speaker. And as you know, I am on this quest...
Jax, I don't think that the average 30 somehting ca hear above 18KHz and below 50Hz.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
probably something to do with getting the speaker to work well, in a not dominating the room way, in the average room, in terms of size and positioning. easiest, most flexible way might be add a sub.
lots more choice if you have a big room.
lots more choice if you have a big room.
Alantiggger
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- Oct 14, 2007
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You're striving for perfection, ain't gonna happen ... most dudes look for too much........ just listen and fall in love with whatev er sound ya got , too much snobishness on here tbh.
Alantiggger:You're striving for perfection, ain't gonna happen ... most dudes look for too much........ just listen and fall in love with whatev er sound ya got , too much snobishness on here tbh.
Its easy to confuse "snobishness" with obession maybe?
Its easy to confuse "snobishness" with obession maybe?
SteveR750:
Alantiggger:You're striving for perfection, ain't gonna happen ... most dudes look for too much........ just listen and fall in love with whatev er sound ya got , too much snobishness on here tbh.
Its easy to confuse "snobishness" with obession maybe?
I agree Steve - I think most of us on here are probably guilty of a multitude of sins (every thread about cables or 'running-in' for instance!), but I don't think that snobbishness is one of them. When all's said and done we're all music lovers and we're striving to get the most realistic representation of the original music, as far as that is possible in our own homes and according to each person's own tastes.
If the OP wants to strive for more realistic bass reproduction then I say go for it, I can really identify with that. Not sure his neighbours will though....
Alantiggger:You're striving for perfection, ain't gonna happen ... most dudes look for too much........ just listen and fall in love with whatev er sound ya got , too much snobishness on here tbh.
Its easy to confuse "snobishness" with obession maybe?
I agree Steve - I think most of us on here are probably guilty of a multitude of sins (every thread about cables or 'running-in' for instance!), but I don't think that snobbishness is one of them. When all's said and done we're all music lovers and we're striving to get the most realistic representation of the original music, as far as that is possible in our own homes and according to each person's own tastes.
If the OP wants to strive for more realistic bass reproduction then I say go for it, I can really identify with that. Not sure his neighbours will though....
It's a hobby right enough, but to go back to the OP, it's not just about the speaker, though important, it's about the ability of the other equipment in the chain to accurately capture and read the lower end information off the source and through the amp if it's a traditional source-amp-speaker setup.
Bearing that in mind, there's the issue of colouration introduced by said components. It all adds up.
Bearing that in mind, there's the issue of colouration introduced by said components. It all adds up.
I appreciate where you're coming from Jax. For me it's the cost. I want what I have and with great bass but I can't pay for it. That includes speakers and the amp(s) to drive it! Also the size becomes a problem as I don't want massive speakers in my lounge.
Still, I was brought up on a diet of large transmission line speakers and I'll be going back there before I die
EDIT isn't the wavelength of a low frequency such as 30Hz very very long? Surely that makes the room size a major problem unless you have a massive room?
Still, I was brought up on a diet of large transmission line speakers and I'll be going back there before I die
EDIT isn't the wavelength of a low frequency such as 30Hz very very long? Surely that makes the room size a major problem unless you have a massive room?
igglebert:I appreciate where you're coming from Jax. For me it's the cost. I want what I have and with great bass but I can't pay for it. That includes speakers and the amp(s) to drive it! Also the size becomes a problem as I don't want massive speakers in my lounge.Still, I was brought up on a diet of large transmission line speakers and I'll be going back there before I die
EDIT isn't the wavelength of a low frequency such as 30Hz very very long? Surely that makes the room size a major problem unless you have a massive room?
At 20 Deg C 30Hz has a wavelength of around 1.1m so not that huge. I wold imagine that at these frequencis the room interacts and colours the sound enormously. Forget agile bass if your walls, ceiling, floor, sideboard are all flapping away in harmony.
At 20 Deg C 30Hz has a wavelength of around 1.1m so not that huge. I wold imagine that at these frequencis the room interacts and colours the sound enormously. Forget agile bass if your walls, ceiling, floor, sideboard are all flapping away in harmony.
Are you sure it's 1.1m? I would have thought it would be 11 metres @ 30hz... 330metres per second and 30 cycles per second is 11m per cycle. You only need the room o be a quarter of the wavelength to produce the frequency though so 3m should be enough o produce 30 hz I'd the room and speaker are good enough.
Dan
Dan
tyranniux42:Are you sure it's 1.1m? I would have thought it would be 11 metres @ 30hz... 330metres per second and 30 cycles per second is 11m per cycle. You only need the room o be a quarter of the wavelength to produce the frequency though so 3m should be enough o produce 30 hz I'd the room and speaker are good enough. Dan
oops
yep, cant convert cm to metres!
oops
SteveR750:
Jax, I don't think that the average 30 somehting ca hear above 18KHz and below 50Hz.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
50hz is quite high bass, i come mainly from a car audio backround and I can assure you that you can hear bass down to below 25hz 🙂
Jax, I don't think that the average 30 somehting ca hear above 18KHz and below 50Hz.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
50hz is quite high bass, i come mainly from a car audio backround and I can assure you that you can hear bass down to below 25hz 🙂
spanerman:SteveR750:
Jax, I don't think that the average 30 somehting ca hear above 18KHz and below 50Hz.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
50hz is quite high bass, i come mainly from a car audio backround and I can assure you that you can hear bass down to below 25hz 🙂
That's pretty impressive if you can hear such low frequencies, although you might find it different if you have your hearing tested scientifically. You are more likely to feel frequencies as low as 25Hz than actually detect them with your ears. Agreed 50Hz isn't that low, but 25Hz is a full octave lower. I KNOW I cannot hear 25Hz whatever you might think
Jax, I don't think that the average 30 somehting ca hear above 18KHz and below 50Hz.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
50hz is quite high bass, i come mainly from a car audio backround and I can assure you that you can hear bass down to below 25hz 🙂
That's pretty impressive if you can hear such low frequencies, although you might find it different if you have your hearing tested scientifically. You are more likely to feel frequencies as low as 25Hz than actually detect them with your ears. Agreed 50Hz isn't that low, but 25Hz is a full octave lower. I KNOW I cannot hear 25Hz whatever you might think
Re hearing frequencies:
It may be quite a revealing experience if you test your ears' frequency response, even if not very scientifically.
In my 'my system' thread there is a couple of links to downloadable lossless test discs which contain tones from 20hz to 20khz. Try them with your speakers and your headphones - and your ears! You may be surprised. They are also very good for setting up low frequency rewsponce on speakers and subs.
For example,I found out that I cannot hear above 13khz, but have no problem low all the way to 20hz (with headphones). My girlfriend easily goes to 16khz.
It may be quite a revealing experience if you test your ears' frequency response, even if not very scientifically.
In my 'my system' thread there is a couple of links to downloadable lossless test discs which contain tones from 20hz to 20khz. Try them with your speakers and your headphones - and your ears! You may be surprised. They are also very good for setting up low frequency rewsponce on speakers and subs.
For example,I found out that I cannot hear above 13khz, but have no problem low all the way to 20hz (with headphones). My girlfriend easily goes to 16khz.
SteveR750:
Jax, I don't think that the average 30 somehting ca hear above 18KHz and below 50Hz.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 41hZ. 82Hz is Bottom E on a standard guitar.
Jax, I don't think that the average 30 somehting ca hear above 18KHz and below 50Hz.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 41hZ. 82Hz is Bottom E on a standard guitar.
Wilson Audio speakers are for you then! They have the best low frequency reach, texture and detail imo. But they were too direct and very much from the box for my tastes. A dream speaker for producers to mix in studios. As for me low frequencies are important but not above anything else. If a speaker goes down to 25-28 Hz it's good enough for me. If you listen to a lot of organ music then you might need more. I DO believe that even frequencies you can't hear DO have effect (micro/macro details) on the musical experience. See it like a painting with dots which you almost or can not see at all but all those 100+ dots spread throughout the painting add up and the whole painting wouldn't be the same without them. That's why I am a fan of ultrawide bandwith amplification.
Craig M.:bloody hell slick, your kit list just made me do a small wee.
Hi Craig,
It's a very hard road and I'm working very hard for it! Next upgrade will be the Spectral SDR-4000S Pro CD player and then MIT Oracle MA-X2 cables and my dream kit is completed! Good enough to get the live performance experience at home on a daily basis!
Hi Craig,
It's a very hard road and I'm working very hard for it! Next upgrade will be the Spectral SDR-4000S Pro CD player and then MIT Oracle MA-X2 cables and my dream kit is completed! Good enough to get the live performance experience at home on a daily basis!
SteveR750:That's pretty impressive if you can hear such low frequencies, although you might find it different if you have your hearing tested scientifically. You are more likely to feel frequencies as low as 25Hz than actually detect them with your ears. Agreed 50Hz isn't that low, but 25Hz is a full octave lower. I KNOW I cannot hear 25Hz whatever you might think
Yeah, but I want my dog to enjoy the music too...oh wait...that's high frequencies...never mind...
Yeah, but I want my dog to enjoy the music too...oh wait...that's high frequencies...never mind...
I find my hearing to be very good, despite working in noisy construction environments and using drills for the last 10 years.
I can hear below 20hz using test cd's and a sub, and can also hear those very high pitch electronic pest control devices.
I can hear below 20hz using test cd's and a sub, and can also hear those very high pitch electronic pest control devices.
jaxwired:
SteveR750:That's pretty impressive if you can hear such low frequencies, although you might find it different if you have your hearing tested scientifically. You are more likely to feel frequencies as low as 25Hz than actually detect them with your ears. Agreed 50Hz isn't that low, but 25Hz is a full octave lower. I KNOW I cannot hear 25Hz whatever you might think
Yeah, but I want my dog to enjoy the music too...oh wait...that's high frequencies...never mind...
dunno about the dog, but my GF enjoys the low notes, espesh if she sat on the floor ;-)
SteveR750:That's pretty impressive if you can hear such low frequencies, although you might find it different if you have your hearing tested scientifically. You are more likely to feel frequencies as low as 25Hz than actually detect them with your ears. Agreed 50Hz isn't that low, but 25Hz is a full octave lower. I KNOW I cannot hear 25Hz whatever you might think
Yeah, but I want my dog to enjoy the music too...oh wait...that's high frequencies...never mind...
dunno about the dog, but my GF enjoys the low notes, espesh if she sat on the floor ;-)
jaxwired:
SteveR750:That's pretty impressive if you can hear such low frequencies, although you might find it different if you have your hearing tested scientifically. You are more likely to feel frequencies as low as 25Hz than actually detect them with your ears. Agreed 50Hz isn't that low, but 25Hz is a full octave lower. I KNOW I cannot hear 25Hz whatever you might think
Yeah, but I want my dog to enjoy the music too...oh wait...that's high frequencies...never mind...
for a minute I wondered which Dog.....
SteveR750:That's pretty impressive if you can hear such low frequencies, although you might find it different if you have your hearing tested scientifically. You are more likely to feel frequencies as low as 25Hz than actually detect them with your ears. Agreed 50Hz isn't that low, but 25Hz is a full octave lower. I KNOW I cannot hear 25Hz whatever you might think
Yeah, but I want my dog to enjoy the music too...oh wait...that's high frequencies...never mind...
for a minute I wondered which Dog.....
Gary Mardell:SteveR750:
Jax, I don't think that the average 30 somehting ca hear above 18KHz and below 50Hz.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 41hZ. 82Hz is Bottom E on a standard guitar.
Yes of course, Thanks
Jax, I don't think that the average 30 somehting ca hear above 18KHz and below 50Hz.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 82.4 Hz at concert pitch; typical tuning for a double bass means a LF of 40 odd Hz. If my speakers were flat at 40 Hz then the furniture would ruin the sound, after all there is a reason why you dont conduct concerts in people's houses. Bass is something to be treasured at gigs, its what makes them special. Trying to recreate wembley stadium in your home is missing the point maybe.
Bottom E on a bass guitar is 41hZ. 82Hz is Bottom E on a standard guitar.
Yes of course, Thanks
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