speaker cable

[Callum J]

HI

Due to the layout of my room i need long runs of cable between my Dali speakers and a Marantz MCR 610.

Would i be as well buying 500 strand oxygen free stuff off Ebay, especially as it would be very expensive to buy more pricey stuff.

The runs are 12 metres and 10 metres.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Callum J

500 strand OFC speaker cables will be more than good enough for your MCR610 and guessing similarly priced speakers.

Fwiw, we only use basic 79 and 500 strand OFC speaker cables with all our components.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[andyjm]

Its not the number of strands that matter, but the total cross sectional area of the conductors.

One thick strand may well have a larger cross sectional area than many thin strands. The benefit of mutistrand is that is flexible, on the other hand there are some rather esoteric reasons why a single conductor may have slight benefits electrically.

Rick's sensible advice is quite correct, but check the cable cross secitonal area as well. 79 strand, 2.5mm/sq is the workhorse of decent hifi, and can be picked up at considerably less than £1 per metre. Your runs are longer than normal, so you could consider 4mm/sq conductors if your budget / space allows.

If the budget is really tight 2.5mm/sq twin and earth mains cable (the sort sparkys use to wire a house ringmain) makes excellent speaker cable.

 

[Overdose]

This the sort of advice I like.

There's a fair bit of it about once you cut thorugh the BS.

 

[davedotco]

Its not the number of strands that matter, but the total cross sectional area of the conductors.

One thick strand may well have a larger cross sectional area than many thin strands. The benefit of mutistrand is that is flexible, on the other hand there are some rather esoteric reasons why a single conductor may have slight benefits electrically.

Rick's sensible advice is quite correct, but check the cable cross secitonal area as well. 79 strand, 2.5mm/sq is the workhorse of decent hifi, and can be picked up at considerably less than £1 per metre. Your runs are longer than normal, so you could consider 4mm/sq conductors if your budget / space allows.

If the budget is really tight 2.5mm/sq twin and earth mains cable (the sort sparkys use to wire a house ringmain) makes excellent speaker cable.

Along time ago in a universe far, far away I worked for a retailer who did exactly that. In this particular universe all the copper used in such cable came from the same source (mine) and was known to be particularly pure.

We stripped out the red and black cores, tied them to the bathroom door right at the back of the shop and used the Black and Decker to give them a nice gentle twist.

These made speaker cables that auditioned as substantially better than the A$10 /m Monster Cable that was the standard choice in that market at that time, so we charged A$20 /m. Some markup, but we sold tons of the stuff.

BTW, the dealers name was Mathew Bond, now President and Owner of Tara Labs.

The original name, "Tara Labs Space and Time Cable", was concieved over a few beers in a pub in Bondi Junction.

 

[Vladimir]

For low current application the number of strings would be meaningless. However, for high current applications this is fairly important due to Electro-Motive Force produced by current.

When AC travels through two conductors next to eachother they repell because of this EM Force. Even in a single wire, there are structural string and you can look at it like a multistring composition, just very dense. The EMF pushes eventually more current on the outside of the wire than the inside. This for small current is negligable but for high current, like welding, its important. Therefore, a multistring cable would be more efficient and more practical (bendy) than solid core or few thick strings.

The more difficult speaker drivers are to move, bigger their resistance (impedance) is. Speakers that go to or under 1 ohm are basically cables connected to a pile of rocks, expecting sound to come of it. 0 hms resistance is when you weld.

Now, unless your amp delivers High Instanteneous Current of 200A or more in transient peaks and the speakers need it and can take it, you are good with normal stock 75 string speaker cable. But if you have Krell amplification and Apogee speakers, you will want that orange welding cable that goes up to 600A.

 

[nopiano]

Along time ago in a universe far, far away I worked for a retailer who did exactly that. In this particular universe all the copper used in such cable came from the same source (mine) and was known to be particularly pure.

We stripped out the red and black cores, tied them to the bathroom door right at the back of the shop and used the Black and Decker to give them a nice gentle twist.

These made speaker cables that auditioned as substantially better than the A$10 /m Monster Cable that was the standard choice in that market at that time, so we charged A$20 /m. Some markup, but we sold tons of the stuff.

BTW, the dealers name was Mathew Bond, now President and Owner of Tara Labs.

The original name, "Tara Labs Space and Time Cable", was concieved over a few beers in a pub in Bondi Junction.

Great story, Dave, and one wonders if Mr Bond was attracted to create that business from that experience.

What I cannot believe is the sheer number of specialist cable companies, as even if they all make 2000% it is surely a small pond to fish in.

 

[ellisdj]

speaker cable does not have to be thick to be good, or good over a long run. the thicker the better is not necessarily true either.

There are many excellent cables that are thin and still very good, so dont let that put you off if you look into such a product.

Asking for help for cables on here is asking for trouble. - better off reading through an old thread becuse it will be the same people saying the same thing.

 

[davedotco]

Along time ago in a universe far, far away I worked for a retailer who did exactly that. In this particular universe all the copper used in such cable came from the same source (mine) and was known to be particularly pure.

We stripped out the red and black cores, tied them to the bathroom door right at the back of the shop and used the Black and Decker to give them a nice gentle twist.

These made speaker cables that auditioned as substantially better than the A$10 /m Monster Cable that was the standard choice in that market at that time, so we charged A$20 /m. Some markup, but we sold tons of the stuff.

BTW, the dealers name was Mathew Bond, now President and Owner of Tara Labs.

The original name, "Tara Labs Space and Time Cable", was concieved over a few beers in a pub in Bondi Junction.

Great story, Dave, and one wonders if Mr Bond was attracted to create that business from that experience.

What I cannot believe is the sheer number of specialist cable companies, as even if they all make 2000% it is surely a small pond to fish in.

The bond family had been in hi-fi manufacturing for some time. You may recall the high precision cassettes, (metal parts, screwed construction) that were considered the dogs cajones for your Nakamichi back in the day. The Bond family owned the company that made them.

Mathew was heavily into valves and had an 'interest' in the Manley/VTL organisation. As the cable thing started to take off he needed someone to mind the store, that was me.

 

[nopiano]

Along time ago in a universe far, far away I worked for a retailer who did exactly that. In this particular universe all the copper used in such cable came from the same source (mine) and was known to be particularly pure.

We stripped out the red and black cores, tied them to the bathroom door right at the back of the shop and used the Black and Decker to give them a nice gentle twist.

These made speaker cables that auditioned as substantially better than the A$10 /m Monster Cable that was the standard choice in that market at that time, so we charged A$20 /m. Some markup, but we sold tons of the stuff.

BTW, the dealers name was Mathew Bond, now President and Owner of Tara Labs.

The original name, "Tara Labs Space and Time Cable", was concieved over a few beers in a pub in Bondi Junction.

Great story, Dave, and one wonders if Mr Bond was attracted to create that business from that experience.

What I cannot believe is the sheer number of specialist cable companies, as even if they all make 2000% it is surely a small pond to fish in.

The Bond family had been in hi-fi manufacturing for some time. You may recall the high precision cassettes, (metal parts, screwed construction) that were considered the dogs cajones for your Nakamichi back in the day. The Bond family owned the company that made them.

Mathew was heavily into valves and had an 'interest' in the Manley/VTL organisation. As the cable thing started to take off he needed someone to mind the store, that was me.

Fascinating, thanks, Dave. I was loosely aware of the Manley history having long admired their VTL line. They have magnificently made tubes still relevant in the 21st Century. And I definitely remember the souped-up cassette mechanisms. Being a bit of a nerd then, I would read all the specs on cassettes, always marvelling at the silk purse from a sow's ear that was achieved.

 

[Callum J]

Thanks for your comments folks, and i think i will go for 500 strand OFC cable...should do the job!

It's Dali Sensor 1s, Rick, i use with the Marantz, and they pair well; but sometimes i think the music sounds a bit congested, for lack of a better term, so hopefully new cable should improve matters.

 

[andyjm]

For low current application the number of strings would be meaningless. However, for high current applications this is fairly important due to Electro-Motive Force produced by current.

When AC travels through two conductors next to eachother they repell because of this EM Force. Even in a single wire, there are structural string and you can look at it like a multistring composition, just very dense. The EMF pushes eventually more current on the outside of the wire than the inside. This for small current is negligable but for high current, like welding, its important. Therefore, a multistring cable would be more efficient and more practical (bendy) than solid core or few thick strings.

The more difficult speaker drivers are to move, bigger their resistance (impedance) is. Speakers that go to or under 1 ohm are basically cables connected to a pile of rocks, expecting sound to come of it. 0 hms resistance is when you weld.

Now, unless your amp delivers High Instanteneous Current of 200A or more in transient peaks and the speakers need it and can take it, you are good with normal stock 75 string speaker cable. But if you have Krell amplification and Apogee speakers, you will want that orange welding cable that goes up to 600A.

Nope.

The effect you describe, skin effect, is where the current in a cable tends to travel toward the edge of the conductor (or skin) as the frequency of the signal increases.

This is overcome by multiple INSULATED strands of wire, referred to as 'Litz wire'. Wikipedia is your friend here.

Where a cable has multiple uninsulated strands, it acts as one large cable, with the current flowing along the outside of the strand bundle. This causes the current to jump from strand to strand (strand jumping) as the current tries to stay toward the outer edge of the strand bundle.

This is the reason why solid conductors (may) have a slight edge on multi strand. The poor old signal has had to jump from strand to strand, crossing who knows how many copper/copper junctions to get to the other end of the cable. In a solid conductor, its copper all the way..

Welding cables are multi strand because they need to be extremely flexible. Ever tried welding with a stiff cable connected to your welding torch?

 

[andyjm]

speaker cable does not have to be thick to be good, or good over a long run. the thicker the better is not necessarily true either.

There are many excellent cables that are thin and still very good, so dont let that put you off if you look into such a product.

Asking for help for cables on here is asking for trouble. - better off reading through an old thread becuse it will be the same people saying the same thing.

Nope.

About the only thing that matters with speaker cable is resistance, and that is a function of conductor size. All other things being equal, a thicker cable will always be better than a thinner cable.

 

[ID.]

The original name, "Tara Labs Space and Time Cable", was concieved over a few beers in a pub in Bondi Junction.

Bondi Junction. Now that is a little too close to home.

 

[davedotco]

The original name, "Tara Labs Space and Time Cable", was concieved over a few beers in a pub in Bondi Junction.

Bondi Junction. Now that is a little too close to home.

Didn't realise you were antipodean.....!

Havn't been able to wind up an aussie since al lemon gave it up.

 

[ID.]

The original name, "Tara Labs Space and Time Cable", was concieved over a few beers in a pub in Bondi Junction.

Bondi Junction. Now that is a little too close to home.

Didn't realise you were antipodean.....!

Havn't been able to wind up an aussie since al lemon gave it up.

But altruistic lemon was always pretty easy to wind up. Whatever happened to the stereotypical laid back Aussie?

Sorry, enough thread disrailment.

 

[Vladimir]

Nope.

I was discussing why the current moves to the outer edge. EMF is the answer.

 

[andyjm]

Nope.

I was discussing why the current moves to the outer edge. EMF is the answer.

I understood that you were suggesting multi strand (string) cables were somehow better than solid connectors because of skin effect. They aren't.

A moving charge does indeed generate a magnetic field, and in certain situations the electromotive force generated will encourage current to flow near the surface of a connector. We are certainly agreed about that.

The effect is frequency dependent, and for all intents and purposes negligable at audio frequencies.

 

[Vladimir]

I was trying to say what you are saying. I just made a mess of it. *mosking*

 

[lindsayt]

Rick @ Musicraft gives exceedingly good advice on cables.

 

[gowiththeflow]

This is the sort of advice I like.

No B/S

 

[gowiththeflow]

Siltech Royal Signature Series cable is listed at $45,000 (£27,692) for a pair of 2 metre length speaker wires.

The blurb includes this gem.......

"Every Royal Signature Series cable incorporates this unique combination and ensures an unmatched performance in the soundstage of your imagination.[/b]"

.