Sony response to 52w4500 clouding issues

[admin_exported]

I've had my KDL52W4500 for three months, the clouding thing started up with a vengeance after a couple of weeks, and I was waiting awhile to see if it would settle down before complaining to Sony.

Here's a picture of the screen - hard to photograph it, but you get the idea:

This week I finally contacted Sony, and their third-party engineer came out today. He claimed there was no problem with this level of clouding, and even tried to charge me for a no-fault-found callout charge. I scanned the repair instructions letter he had from Sony whereby they appear to deny any problem with clouding on any of their TVs - specifically "on no account consider replacing the LCD panel for this type of claim":

I think this is a problem. How do I proceed from here? If Sony say it's not an issue, who should I take to court? My contract is with the dealer, and the credit card company under Section 75, but then again it's been three months. Can I take Sony to court for breach of warranty? Or are there alternatives that anyone's had success with? I have to say I'm desperately disappointed with Sony service and I would strongly discourage others from a Sony purchase at this stage (says the man with a PS3 and Vaio and three other Bravias...)

 

[matengawhat]

this smacks of sony's attitude to their customers based on defects that happen during the production process which they class as acceptable and we as customers are left with the problems - i remember when i bought my psp and there was a broken pixel that annoyed me - contacted sony and they said it was common and not a fault and it even said that in the instructions - a number of broken pixels did not effect viewing pleasure even though because i knew where it was my eyes were drawn to it.

Nintendo DS - broken pixel - Nintendo agree its annoying and a fault and instant replacement by dealer under warranty - funny the psp was bought from same dealer and they refused to replace but the ds no problems!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

True, but their goods must be of merchantable quality - they are not above the law. Is clouding like this acceptable in a near-£2,000 television? I don't think so, and I have enough time on my hands at the moment to let a court determine a case law ruling declaring it unacceptable. Presumably if Sony won't honour its warranty, I should take them to the small claims court for the cost of a nearest-replacement, presumably a 52W5500 since the 52W4500 appears to have been withdrawn despite what they claim above, plus the cost of a 5-year warranty matching the one I currently have?

 

[matengawhat]

just out of interest in that pic what do you have the back light set to - i don't have that model but have two other sony bravias and have the back light on both set at 2

 

[Anonymous]

I'd tried the backlight thing already, the issue still occurs at 2.

 

[ElectroMan]

You may well have a claim under the Sale of Goods Act, but I think it would be against the shop, and not the manufacturer as they sold you the set. Although you might be able to claim against Sony if they're telling the shop (and you) that it's not a problem.

I'd take a look at this, if you haven't already.

 

[Anonymous]

Yup, this is the same response that What Hi-Fi posted a while back.

I've got a W4500 with backlight bleed and when I was googling about it a while back I came across a blog by a guy from the US that had backlight bleed with a Sony lcd (cant remember the model) the response went;

"Sony's
Bravia LCD line of televisions are among the brightest and most color
rich televisions in the world. To achieve this level of performance
Sony utilizes a brighter backlight output and setting.

With this exceptional brightness, under certain dark viewing
conditions, especially blank screens with no video source, the
backlight may exhibit a slight unevenness of uniformity. This condition
is not usually visible under typical conditions such as watching movies
or general television programming and should not affect your viewing
experience. However, should you find that this uneven uniformity does
affect your enjoyment, there are a few adjustments that you can make to
minimize this condition:

Setup Menu - Light Sensor: ON

Setup Menu - Power Saving: Low or High

Picture Menu - Reduce the Backlight Level (Factory Setting: 10) Combination of the above changes

The condition is not considered defective and using the above settings should rectify the issue."

This was dated December 2006 and is almost word for word identical to the new statement. This has been an issue with Sony LCDs for ages. They dont care they're fobbing off turkeys - they just want your money - more than ever now as they're in a fair bit of financial trouble! I feel they're utterly contemptous towards their customers. They probably didn't even bother checking the w4500's and just fired out that message - the W4500 doesn't even have a "High" power mode setting.

You learn from your mistakes. After being burned once I'll never buy another Sony TV again. I'll also be very cautious with magazine reviews and recommendations in future as well!!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that EHonda - I noticed it didn't have that setting either. I suspect this is sufficient legal grounds for not prewarning customers of known defects. I wonder if Which? would be interested in pursuing a class action...?

 

[ear]

Hope soon we have news on the new models to see if backlight problems still continue...

 

[h4rdy]

Here we go again!

See my topic for more info and more response.

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/216713.aspx

I am now sure of future purchases!

 

[Tonya]

Ye Gods! The old 52W4500 "issue" reloaded! As I have mentioned in a post that is buried somewhere in this hallowed site, I'm an AV engineer by trade and finally replaced my Thomson 52" reference set with a Sony 52W4500 series (made in Slovakia). This was after I had read about all the problems people were having as it was made very clear that I could return it within 30 days for a refund. After spending an hour or two calibrating the set using a "Monster Cable HD disc" the results were superb. However to double check I ran the full range of tests using a very expensive signal generator that we usually use for setting up TV broadcast monitors. Needless to say it performed like it says on the tin. When displaying a PC picture using the HDMI input, the quality has yet to be surpassed, maybe with the exception of a few high end Apple monitors in some graphic studios I know, but they cost twice as much and are far smaller in size.

When I get home (I'm travelling right now) i'd love to post some high definition pictures of the set for you here.
My only advice, which is the same if you are buying video or audio hardware, is by all means read the excellent reviews posted here and elsewhere, but at the end of the day go and audition the products at your local dealer or showroom. Take your favourite BD/DVD/CD with you so you have a reference. And remember, buying mail order may shave off a few pounds but buying from an authorized dealer who knows his stuff is a far better insurance policy should things go "boobs up" as they say.

UPDATE! Just checked my email and there was a mail from Sony asking me to fill in a questionaire regarding my experiences with my new Bravia TV, so it looks like the company do seem to care about the end user experience. Also the sets over here (Norway) carry a five year warranty so it would be financial suicide to knowingly release substandard sets into the wild! Just a thought . . . .

 

[ElectroMan]

I filled in that Sony online questionnaire yesterday ... the questions are basically about which features you use, and there is no place to give them any other feedback.

I am very happy with my set, but it would have been good for Sony to ask Is there anything you don't like about your television? - then Sony, at least, would know how big a problem it is (or is perceived to be) - or any other issues.

I also don't think the five year warranty would affect anything - as Sony don't acknowledge there's a problem they wouldn't fix it under a warranty anyway!

 

[Tonya]

Hi Electroman! I think the laws may be different in the UK. In Scandinavia, when you purchase a high value item such as a TV or HiFi component, the "contract" is between the seller and the buyer, not the manufacturer. Case in point, my Funai DVD/HDD recorder broke down after 18 months and when returning it to the shop I was asked if I wanted it sent away for repair or would I like an alternative as they no longer stocked that particular model. I chose the latest Pioneer model instead, paying the £20 difference in price. It's then up to the shop to get a credit note from the distributor, the onus is on them and not the purchaser. Also on my Sony questionnaire, there was a feedback box, but then again it's probably due to regional differences. All in all, sounds like you are getting a bum deal in the UK when it comes to warranties and the like. But then again, we have to pay upwards of £7 for a pint of beer so at least you can drown your sorrows ;-)

 

[matthewpiano]

The 5 year warranties and proper customer support are very much available in the UK if people purchase from the right dealers. Too many people shop on price alone, often buying from internet retailers they have hardly heard of, and are then surprised when customer service doesn't match up to their expectations.

In the UK, as in Scandinavia, the customer's contract is with the retailer they purchased the item from, and not the manufacturer. Therefore I am very surprised that more people are not careful about who they purchase from. It might cost a little bit more in the short term, but buying from a dealer/retailer who actually cares about customer service and the satisfaction of their customers can make a massive difference to the long term enjoyment of a product. The better dealers/retailers tend to have much stronger relationships with repair agents and, because they are buying direct from the UK arm of the manufacturer rather than from an unknown source in Europe, they also hold much more sway with the manufacturer.

In general I'd always buy from an independent dealer (including groups of hi-fi stores like Audio T or Super-Fi, and the Sony Centres) rather than the huge chains or too cheap to be true internet offerings. My one exception to this would be John Lewis who, although a huge company, I believe to offer first class service and support.

 

[Tonya]

Couldn't agree more MatthewPiano!. As I have stated in earlier posts, "buying mail order may shave off a few pounds but buying from an authorized dealer who knows his stuff is a far better insurance policy should things go "boobs up" as they say". It would be a shame to see HiFi specialists go the same way as Computer Specialists did many years ago. Now you buy your PC from the same guy that sells you your washing machine or vacuum cleaner. Most technical PC competance nowadays is resticted to what the label says that's on the side of the box. Another exception I would add when it comes to HiFi retailers would have to be Richer Sounds. They seem to know theor sprouts, even though the choice is fairly limited. Retail is going through a bad patch these days and it's never been a better time to support your local specialist . . . .

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano: In the UK, as in Scandinavia, the customer's contract is with the retailer they purchased the item from, and not the manufacturer. Therefore I am very surprised that more people are not careful about who they purchase from. It might cost a little bit more in the short term, but buying from a dealer/retailer who actually cares about customer service and the satisfaction of their customers can make a massive difference to the long term enjoyment of a product.

As a representative from Scandinavia (Denmark) I agree, but remember the difference between warranty (worldwide as described in the manufacturers booklets following the product) and service provided in stores! Iïve had a laptop pc from HP and a Canon printer repaired under warranty from the companies. Both items bought from cheapest internet stores and both sent to repair directly through HP and Canon support - even without delivery charges. This will probably be the same for Sony, if they accept the clouding as a fault that needs repair. Which we already know they donït.

But I agree that when it comes to customer service there is a difference in how this is performed. Some stores might choose to replace a product only for keeping up good customer relations.

 

[Anonymous]

To everyone who assumed I bought mail order, I did not. I bought from an authorised Sony dealer, with a five-year warranty provided by Sony themselves. When you call Sony warranty support, they send out these third-party numpties - the company concerned even asked me what brand of TV I had!

Any further ideas as to what I do next?

 

[Anonymous]

That Sony letter you reproduced is telling. I think a key phrase in the letter is "...may cause the screens on some of these televisions to exhibit a slight uneven uniformity, ...". If the symptom only affects some of the sets then it follows that those that it does affect are faulty. Sony's stance on this problem can't be doing their PR any favours. If the problem is as limited as they would have us believe then it would not cost them much to better support those affected. If the problem is widespread then they should own up to it and deal with it. Their attitude as reported by WHF and on this forum changed my buying decision (went for a Panasonic plasma) and I am sure I am not alone.

The problem with this symptom is the degree of subjectivity. It is possible that some individuals are more sensitive to it than others. It must be frustrating to those suffering the symptom that WHF have not encountered it. There are enough of you out there now that it would be interesting to see if one of your sets, when tested by WHF, exhibited the symptom to the degree that WHF staff agreed it was unacceptable. I'm not sure if such a conclusion would help you to gain redress, but I suspect you would feel vindicated.

Just in case you haven't already seen it there is advice on the
Consumer Direct web site.

 

[kena]

Another classic example of sony customer indifference , aka short changing european PS3 buyers when replacing the PS2 compatability chip with software emulation then removing it altogether while maintaining it on Japanese / American models.

 

[Anonymous]

Kenny p

This happened to me also but with the 40w4500. The 3rd party engineers are told to say what they said to you. I got exactly the same response, the engineers were based in west yorkshire.

You havent got a leg to stand on im afraid. The only bonus is that Sony are in dire straits at the moment, yipeeeeeee.

I feel for ya dude.

 

[Anonymous]

Martin Gman:You havent got a leg to stand on im afraid.

I think if you could prove that there is variable quality coming from Sony that no amount of calibration can adequately compensate for then you would have a case. Unfortunately obtaining such proof requires resources not normally available to an individual consumer, such as another TV of the exact same model to compare yours with. You'd need a consumer organisation to champion your cause, and that of others similarly affected...

Martin Gman:The only bonus is that Sony are in dire straits at the moment, yipeeeeeee

I'm sure that this is meant tongue-in-cheek

- Sony make some great products and I wouldn't want them to go under. They just need to get quality control and customer service back up to scratch.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree, Sony have made some epic stuff in the past, just look at the STRDA5000ES receiver. The closest thing that sounds like a Valve Amp and its a digital receiver!. Sony are good on tech but poor on aftersales.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey everyone, sorry if this is of topic. But two guys have collected my second 40w4500 set and have taken it to have its panel changed. My question is, does any body know how long they take?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Umm, didn't you ask them?

Physically replacing the panel should take an hour or less, but how long your TV will be away is a different matter...

 

[Anonymous]

I blame myself for not asking i was doing 3 different things while they were taking it away. Ok thank you for the reply.