Sonos vs. Squeezebox

[admin_exported]

Hi,

I'd really welcome any advice on choosing between Sonos and Squeezebox (apols - i know some threads touch on this, but they either cover more specific points or are older)

I'm looking at getting one or the other for a multi-room set up at home. Probably for 4 rooms with potential to expand to more later. To play through my hi-fi (nothing special - B&W 601s, NAD amp / CD, etc) in one room, another hifi in another and no equipment in two other rooms.

Squeezebox seems to be significantly cheaper, but if it's a poor choice i could stretch to Sonos. Tempted to get a Squeezebox Duet (for the hifi), a Boombox for the kitchen and two terminals for two other rooms where i'll add amps / speakers (although it's not entirely clear if you can only buy terminals today from Squeezebox). I'd like to know that i can get high quality audio (if i play through high quality amps / speakers / DACs)

From what I can gather:

- Sonos has a better network solution; creates its own wireless network in your home independent of whatever internet wireless you have (I have a BT homehub). Whereas Squeezebox is on your wireless (and can hit bandwidth issues)?

- Sonos is easier to switch different rooms on / off on its controller, although Squeezebox can do this (just more fingertaps)?

- While the Sonos controller is great, it is very big. The squeezebox one may be better (although does not feel super high quality)?

- Sonos interface is maybe a little more intuitive, but i hear good things about the squeezebox one too?

- I've heard mixed things about Sonos products with amps (not so good)

Can anyone offer any opinions / advice on which way to go? I feel like i've trawled lots of forums, but not hit upon many complete answers

Thanks in advance!

 

[The_Lhc]

towbar:I'd really welcome any advice on choosing between Sonos and Squeezebox (apols - i know some threads touch on this, but they either cover more specific points or are older)

I'm looking at getting one or the other for a multi-room set up at home. Probably for 4 rooms with potential to expand to more later. To play through my hi-fi (nothing special - B&W 601s, NAD amp / CD, etc) in one room, another hifi in another and no equipment in two other rooms.

In that case Sonos is the only choice, AIUI any more than 4 squeezeboxes and you're in danger of overwhelming your wireless setup, Sonos never has this problem and can support up to 32 zones (with up to 32 controllers).

- Sonos has a better network solution; creates its own wireless network in your home independent of whatever internet wireless you have (I have a BT homehub). Whereas Squeezebox is on your wireless (and can hit bandwidth issues)?

Oops, sorry didn't realise you already knew this!

- While the Sonos controller is great, it is very big.

The new touchscreen controller isn't, it's not much bigger than an iPhone, a little thicker perhaps. Incidentally as I'm sure you're aware you can use an iPhone/Touch to control both Sonos and SB.

- I've heard mixed things about Sonos products with amps (not so good)

You'd have to be a bit more specific here, I'd generally advise using the digital output on a ZP90 over the analogue outputs if possible but other than that I'm not aware of any issues.

 

[manicm]

I think the Sonos is a better bet, if you can save up, and I think the_lhc as a Sonos owner would agree:

1. You want 4+ rooms - Sonos is the easiest here and quality is guaranteed - just add a Zone Player to each room.

2. Having that many rooms you want a NAS to store all music in one place - this will make life for everyone much easier. Sonos supports NAS fully.

3. Squeezebox can be hacked for NAS but is apparently a pain and not always reliable.

4. Squeezebox are releasing their new Touch which has full NAS support but I think Sonos will still be better suited for multi-room capability.

 

[Anonymous]

The big thing about the sonos is that it just works, straight out of the box. You just turn it on and away you go.

There are a couple of issues that come up on the sonos forum that don't affect my use of the system but could potentially be a problem for you. Firstly, there is a limit of 65,000 tracks that the system can handle and secondly there is no capability for streaming HD 24/96 music. I don't believe that either of these issues are problems for the squeezebox.

From the description of the configuration that you are looking to achieve then I do not see that you will have any problems with the Sonos, just remember that one unit must be connected by cable to your router.

Assuming that these problems are not relevant to you then I can not recommend the sonos highly enough, it's brilliant.

 

[manicm]

the_lhc:towbar:I'd really welcome any advice on choosing between Sonos and Squeezebox (apols - i know some threads touch on this, but they either cover more specific points or are older)

I'm looking at getting one or the other for a multi-room set up at home. Probably for 4 rooms with potential to expand to more later. To play through my hi-fi (nothing special - B&W 601s, NAD amp / CD, etc) in one room, another hifi in another and no equipment in two other rooms.

In that case Sonos is the only choice, AIUI any more than 4 squeezeboxes and you're in danger of overwhelming your wireless setup, Sonos never has this problem and can support up to 32 zones (with up to 32 controllers).

- Sonos has a better network solution; creates its own wireless network in your home independent of whatever internet wireless you have (I have a BT homehub). Whereas Squeezebox is on your wireless (and can hit bandwidth issues)?

Oops, sorry didn't realise you already knew this!

- While the Sonos controller is great, it is very big.

The new touchscreen controller isn't, it's not much bigger than an iPhone, a little thicker perhaps. Incidentally as I'm sure you're aware you can use an iPhone/Touch to control both Sonos and SB.

- I've heard mixed things about Sonos products with amps (not so good)

You'd have to be a bit more specific here, I'd generally advise using the digital output on a ZP90 over the analogue outputs if possible but other than that I'm not aware of any issues.

You beat me to it

 

[Dan.m]

I have made the decision to buy a sonos set up (zonebridge, zp90, S5, controller). I currently play itunes from - PC with external hard drive -router- Dell wirleless laptop connected to rotel amp via profigold 3.5mm (headphone jack) to phono cable- B&W 601's. Obviously the sound card in the laptop is the limiting factor - there is quite a difference betwwen this and my dedicated arcam CD player. I may buy DAC soon.

1) When i get my sonos. I want to but a NAS. I was looking at one of the Buffalo linkstations - either the mini or linkstation live. Can anyone comment or recommend either. Is the terrastation or AVA RS3 worth the extra??

2) When i purchase my NAS, how do copy my itunes files/folders from my external hard drive connected to my PC accross to the new NAS. I assume i will have to connect my my new NAS to my PC or router somehow?? Will i have to download the itunes software onto the NAS via my PC. Once everthing is set up my ageing PC will probably become redunant as i only seem to use my laptop nowadays - could this pose any problems i.e. does the NAS need to interact with the PC that set it up?

ANY comments appreciated. I dont want to make any expensive mistakes!

 

[Anonymous]

manicm:

2. Having that many rooms you want a NAS to store all music in one place - this will make life for everyone much easier. Sonos supports NAS fully.

3. Squeezebox can be hacked for NAS but is apparently a pain and not always reliable.

4. Squeezebox are releasing their new Touch which has full NAS support but I think Sonos will still be better suited for multi-room capability.

I can't really address any of the other points, but my Synology NAS supports Squeezebox. I don't use Squeezebox, but it is listed as a supported application and the vendor has it packaged for download to their NAS devices on their website: http://www.synology.com/enu/products/features/valueapps.php

My NAS is a Synology DS409. It should work with the Sonos as well. I use it to stream video to my xBox and music to my Yamaha RX-V3900 Receiver. I have it set up with 4 x 1.5Tb drives in a RAID 5 config (so I can lose 1 drive) giving me around 4.2Tb of useable space.

EDIT: Added...Dan.m:

2) When i purchase my NAS, how do copy my itunes files/folders from my external hard drive connected to my PC accross to the new NAS. I assume i will have to connect my my new NAS to my PC or router somehow?? Will i have to download the itunes software onto the NAS via my PC. Once everthing is set up my ageing PC will probably become redunant as i only seem to use my laptop nowadays - could this pose any problems i.e. does the NAS need to interact with the PC that set it up?

You should be able to use Sonos/Squeezebox/A N Other Media Streamer without the need for the PC to be switched on. my xBox and Amp don't need my laptop on, there is a media server (and iTunes) installed on the Synology box.

 

[Anonymous]

FYI - this very question is tackled in a rather chunky head-to-head in the February issue - in shops tomorrow!

 

[The_Lhc]

Dan.m:1) When i get my sonos. I want to but a NAS. I was looking at one of the Buffalo linkstations - either the mini or linkstation live. Can anyone comment or recommend either. Is the terrastation or AVA RS3 worth the extra??

From a Sonos point of view no it's not worth the extra, Sonos doesn't give a monkey's about the NAS, provided it gives a CIFS share, which pretty much most of them do (there a list of non-compatible NAS and other network hardware in the FAQ on Sonos's support page, hang on: HERE there aren't that many). If the NAS you mention are worth the extra for any other reason I really couldn't tell you, all I will say is you don't need to buy a NAS with any special software on it for Sonos, which you DO for squeezebox, that's the other reason Sonos is a bit easier to set up.

2) When i purchase my NAS, how do copy my itunes files/folders from my external hard drive connected to my PC accross to the new NAS. I assume i will have to connect my my new NAS to my PC or router somehow??

Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs but NAS stands for Network Attached Storage, so, as the name suggests it will need to be attached to your network, ie your router, preferably hardwired, the same as your first Sonos zoneplayer. That's about the only advantage Squeezebox has over Sonos, because the SBs are all effectively independant they can all be connected wirelessly, whereas one Sonos device must be wired (this is probably why Sonos doesn't have any problems overwhelming the router and SB does). You can get a Zonebridge and wire that to the router if it's really too difficult to wire a zoneplayer to the router but that's another £79 (although the Currys megastore near me was doing them for £69 towards the end of last year).

Will i have to download the itunes software onto the NAS via my PC. Once everthing is set up my ageing PC will probably become redunant as i only seem to use my laptop nowadays - could this pose any problems i.e. does the NAS need to interact with the PC that set it up?

I'm not an iTunes user but you don't need iTunes on the NAS in order to use Sonos, if you're still using iTunes to download your music then obviously it'll need access to the NAS but I *think* it'll be ok to use the laptop to do that part of it (accessing the NAS as a network drive). You won't need the laptop or the old PC on to use Sonos with the NAS however.

 

[Dan.m]

The ihc - thanks for the reply. From what i can see a NAS is a variety of hard drive that has some sort of software/operating system allowing various devices to tallk to it. It would be really useful to have it on 24/7 - but is electrial consumption that much less that leaving a standard PC on 24/7. I think i will go for a 1TB version - split into 2*500 gb drives - one acting as a back up. Im not really interested in streaming/storing video so anything bigger will probably be wasted! I currently have 300gb of music. When everything is connected (hardwired) i trust i can copy and paste my music library files across to my NAS.

I probably will continue to use i tunes to import CD's and occasionally purchase ( i wish they would increasethe bit rates!) into my libraries.

 

[The_Lhc]

Dan.m:The ihc - thanks for the reply. From what i can see a NAS is a variety of hard drive that has some sort of software/operating system allowing various devices to tallk to it.

Strictly speaking it simply means it's a device which makes hard drive space available via the network, whether this be 1 HDD or dozens. The fact that a number of home NAS offer services to allow media streamers to connect is a slightly different question, some do, some don't but they're still all NAS's.

It would be really useful to have it on 24/7 - but is electrial consumption that much less that leaving a standard PC on 24/7.

Well, obviously that depends on which particular NAS you buy and which PC you're comparing it to, the NAS I've bought apparently (I haven't bothered checking it myself) never use more than about 11 watts, which is similar to an energy saving light bulb.

I think i will go for a 1TB version - split into 2*500 gb drives - one acting as a back up. Im not really interested in streaming/storing video so anything bigger will probably be wasted!

Yes, we used to say that about 1Gb hard drives! That should be fine though, most NAS these days will allow you to swap the drives out in sequence, so if you think you might be running out of space you could swap one 500Gb drive for a 1Tb, wait for the NAS to rebuild the new drive, then swap the other 500Gb drive for another 1Tb and then once that's finished rebuilding, bingo you've got double the space.

I currently have 300gb of music. When everything is connected (hardwired) i trust i can copy and paste my music library files across to my NAS.

Yes it would be a fairly pointless device if you couldn't...

I probably will continue to use i tunes to import CD's and occasionally purchase ( i wish they would increasethe bit rates!) into my libraries.

Well, like I said, I'm not an iTunes user, so whilst I believe you can do this, I've no idea HOW you would go about it.

 

[Anonymous]

My Netgear readynas has a timer function on it so that you can set it to power itself off when you are not at home.

I don't know for sure but I would imagine that other NAS units has similar features. That will save a bit of power consumption.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice above - much appreciated. And indeed the head-to-head in today's edition; great timing.

I think I will go with the Sonos set-up, it is close run on most things - but the certainty of managing multiple rooms (>3 and maybe more down the road), along with a slight edge on sound quality and definite edge on ease of use / set-up clinch it. That said the price difference is significant. The head-to-head in the print edition was really helpful - but it compared prices when you use an iphone you already have as your Sonos controller (i.e the controller is free), where Squeezebox's duet includes a controller - which I don't quite buy. It does ease the cost of starting up with Sonos, but long-term it's not ideal - if i leave the house with my iphone then those still in the house have no controller. Add the cost of the controller and the price is something like £540 (duet and boom) vs. £1000 (zp90, S5 and controller - although the S5 is clearly better). And I do suspect that Squeezebox are more likely to sort out links with Spotify as they are open source - it seems an open question whether Sonos will (Spotify would be a plus for me personally - although maybe i need to be more open minded and try napster). And clearly my opening biases were a bit off (i.e. the amps are not an issue, and the new Sonos controller - having just seen one - is great)

Thanks again

 

[The_Lhc]

towbar: And I do suspect that Squeezebox are more likely to sort out links with Spotify as they are open source

Sorry, do you mean Logitech is open source?

- it seems an open question whether Sonos will (Spotify would be a plus for me personally - although maybe i need to be more open minded and try napster). And clearly my opening biases were a bit off (i.e. the amps are not an issue, and the new Sonos controller - having just seen one - is great)

From what I understand this is actually a Spotify issue, not a Sonos or Squeezebox one, Sonos have said as soon Spotify release their API Sonos will implement it, although you usually have to wait a few months between updates from Sonos, so it won't be an instant implementation.

 

[Nohairnick]

Hi,

Just thought that I might add my twopennyworth following this post and the review I read in the mag today.

I've had a Squeezebox duet for just over a year now and am very happy with it. Some months ago, due to a **-up in Currys I got a complete Sonos system for next to nothing. I took it home thinking -great, I'll keep the Sonos and sell the Squeezebox.

Prior to this I did a side by side comparison. Bear in mind, although I love my music I'm no audiophile. My ears have had a bit too much abuse over the years to notice the nuances that many others in these forums discuss. They are good enough to be able to tell the difference between £100 and £500 kit -but maybe not between £500 and £1000 if you know what I mean.

I connected both up to my system - not a dedicated stereo system but probably fairly representative of what many people have set up in their living rooms these days- a Denon AV1910 amp and Tannoy Arena 5.1 speakers operating in 2.1 mode- extremely good with music, but a cinema package nonetheless.

In terms of set-up, the Sonos system is a doddle. Plug in one of the zoneplayers to your router, load the software, register and it sniffs out your music. Very easy.

Navigation on both the controller and the PC are simple and there are no bells and whistles. (this was all done on the CR100 controller - not the new 200 touchscreen and I haven't used the ipod application so can't comment on it).

Squeezecenter/network is a bit of a pain, but once on is very stable. The latest update has a hugely improved interface. Logitech have also updated the controller firmware that makes the buttons work a little strangely recently but is only annoying to people who got used to the old navigation.

The only issue with the Sonos is that you must have 'something' plugged into your router to communicate with the PC and act as the starting point for the wireless network it creates. This adds a further £80 to the system price and I would suggest this is a cost most people would end up paying as routers tend to be near the PC. If you want to listen to music near there you might as well get a decent soundcard and some powered speakers!

I see that there is some discussion about the capacity of wireless networks. I agree that the Sonos system will not affect your wireless network capacity, but the effect that Squeezeboxes will have is marginal. I think my router provides up to 54 Mbps - lossless FLAC files save at around 1 Mbps (though I don't know quite what the streaming rate is) so there's plenty of capacity. Bearing in mind that if you had mutiple zones set up it's unlikely that they are ALL going to be playing something different so the data rate will be reasonably low. If you stream lower bitrate mp3s then the impact will be even less.

I've researched NAS options and again, for ease of set-up the Sonos has it nailed but the Slim devices forums have pretty comprehensive instructions on adding Squeezecentre onto a range of NAS devices.

If you are going to go down either route I would absolutely recommend you go out and buy the biggest NAS you can afford. I started off with a 500 GB HDD - then nearly had a heart failure when I thought it had broken (with 400Gb+ on it) so I bought another (640 GB) as a back up. As I keep all my albums (many 000s) in FLAC and 320kbs mp3 format (for easily dropping onto a portable) this is now also filling up, so I've now got another 1 TB drive. All are connected by USB and it is a major faff keeping up with the back-ups. A 4 bay 2TB NAS with RAID capability is my next purchase...

The bottom line is that in terms of sound quality (streaming FLAC -ie lossless) I couldn't tell the difference between the two. Both were excellent and indistinguishable with the same music direct from a Marantz CD player also connected.

I tried out the Sonos speakers connected to the amplified zoneplayer and wasn't impressed with them- but that's irrelevant.

In the end, the fact that there was -to my ears- no discernable sound quality difference made my mind up- I sold the Sonos and it was a very nice earner. Yes, the set-up of the squeezebox is a bit of a pain but I had already gone through it- so that's no reason to have got rid of it. There is a very active forum suggesting enhancements and support is great, so any problems you might have with the system are likely to be fixed. Also, I am a born fiddler and if getting software to operate was all as simple as the Sonos system I would be very bored and unhappy...

One other thing that isn't mentioned often (I'm sure a lot of people don't know about it!) is that when you buy the duet you get two players - the controller has a headphone socket in it and you can use it as a portable when in range (this is quite a distance too). The sound from this is suprisingly good!

Good luck- I hope this has been informative.

Nick

 

[Anonymous]

Well I'm about a month late with my opinion but I just purchased a couple of things from Sonos. I bought the ZP90 and an S5. I plan on adding two more ZP90's in the very near future. I had been using a squeezebox classic. I also picked up the Sonos Controller 200. My daughter connects with her iPhone.

i am totally impressed with the Sonos. I have the ZP90 connected to the DAC on my Bryston pre-amp. The sound is absolutely fine. I also love the controller. The S5 sounds surprisingly good. It's small so don't expect a great soundstage but it is definitely room filling and the sound is clean and crisp. I only use flac or uncompressed aif files.

 

[Frank Harvey]

It is an excellent system - I don't know what I'd do without mine now! I'd still be buying overpriced CD's based on hearing one great track only to be let down because it's the only decent track on the album.