Somethings not right with my headphone set up ...

[admin_exported]

Hey all,

My very new headphone system (had it a couple weeks) doesn't seem to be performing as well as I had hoped! I recently brought Grado SR125i headphones, Rega Ear Headphone amp, with DNM Interconnect's, and source is a Naim CD5x/Flatcap 2x.

I brought the headphones and the amp at the same time, but it seems to really be lacking. I know the source is capible of so much more. When I hear my Naim Nait5i and Ariva combo it blows the headphone set up away. There is very little detail in the vocals in comparason, very narrow sound stage, OK prat though, good amount of bass but not as fast and tight as I'm used to...

Perhaps I didn't spend enough on the headphone setup? Should I have gotten the Grado SR325is or Grado RS2 to get the level of sound Im after? Or is the Rega Ear ok?

Thanks for any help, I understand the gear will improve slightly with burn in ... but I don't think It will burn in enough !

Thanks :-|

EDIT: I should probably say the system is still listenable, and much better then the Grado's (with adapter) through my iPod still! The system is just lacking compared to what the improved source should be revealing...

 

[idc]

Hi Kiwi_Jonno, the best I can come up with is a check list;

Is there any indication of a fault? It would appear not with your descriptive of the probelm, but it is worth bearing in mind. Can you access a different pair of headphones to plug into the amp and another amp to plug in the Grados and check the sound to see if all is OK?

How have you connected the headphone amp to the rest of your setup? I have found the instructions I have read to be rather confusing and looking at the Rega Ear instructions, they are no better. (My Mira amps instructions were sparse and confusing to say the least.) I presume you use either Method 1 or 2? So check you have it hooked up correctly.

There will be some running in involved, but not so that the sound changes night and day. Is it a case of you are not so used to the different listening experience that is headfi? When I decided to go totally headfi it took me a while to get used to the different listening experience. But that will not explain why you find there is a lack of detail. The lack of soundstage is probably down to the Grados. But fast and tight bass is a descriptive that is often used with the Grados, so unsure about that one. Overall the products you have are all very good and well respected, but maybe they lack synergy. All I can suggest there is to give it some more time.

 

[PJPro]

You aren't gonna want to read this.

Errr. Try upgrading the power supply?

 

[idc]

Crikey, blimey! PJ, that article is dated from a few years back, is it still the same amp inside? I mean that looks like something I could have made and I'm rubbish!

 

[Anonymous]

Hey there,

Well there is no FAULT as such, it just doesn't sound as impressive as I hoped. Probably simply need a better headphone amp and/or headphones?

The Headphone amp is connected directly to my Naim CDP via the RCA output. The DIM's are disabled on the Naim CDP when I use the headphone amp. The RCA's just go directly into the Rega Ear RCA Inputs.

I'll leave the headphone system on repeat for a few days anyway, but I think its a lost cause. IM wondering what would be the weaker link? The amp or the phones? I tried my Sony In-canel headphones(Sony MDR-EX85LP). The bass was actually improved - a lot tighter though thats probably being in-canel phones. Over all the Grado's were quite a bit better however

Re the Rega power supply ... apparently the power supply has been updated, and is now Rega's own one. Not sure if this means the insides of the amp hard any better quality parts or not??

EDIT: Are these amps any better or about the same ?? (New Zealand $$$)

The Rega was $400...

Audio-Technica AT-HA20 - $220 2nd hand, probably wrong synergy?
Trends Audio PA-10 Tube - $460 un-known??
Project Head Box-SE - $499 has mixed reviews?
Project Head Box - $249

Grado Ra1 Headphone Amp - $999
PerreauxSXH2 Headphone - $999
Naim Headline is about $1200...

I don't wanna spend $1000 really though just giving you an indication

 

[Anonymous]

? Any thoughts

 

[lonely boy]

Hiya Kiwi_Jonno - I don't have any experience with the Rega or Naim equipment, but I do own the SR-125s (minus the - i) and what you describe certainly sounds familiar.

The SR-125's bass performance leaves a lot to be desired, it's ok but not very extended or punchy, detail and sound stage are also not great.

When I received mine I wasn't terribly impressed with them, after using them for a little over a year now I like them better, they do time well and the sound is very engaging, if a little too bright - but for the money the performance isn't great.

I can only recommend trying different headphones.

e

 

[idc]

Hi lonely boy. How many ears have you got? Just had a look at your kit list! That is a poor review of the SR125s. I like everything about my SR80s that you list is bad the SR125s! In that case Kiwi_Jonno, and I will bow to the greater knowledge of lonely boy, try out the Sennheiser HD650, which you should have no trouble getting.

 

[lonely boy]

Yeah I've got quite a collection! I've lost count of the times I've said "this will be my last pair"...

Anyway, I probably could have worded my post a little bit better. Firstly I've only heard and owned the 125s, as I've never heard the other Grados I have no idea how they compare, so don't think that I'm knocking them

There is a lot to like about the 125s - I do like their exuberance and timing - qualities that most of my other phones don't really possess. It's just that I don't think soundstage and detail on this particular model are up to scratch but to be honest that isn't for me a major problem, I don't find those qualities in abundance to be essential to enjoy music.

The bigger problems I find with them is their tonality and the lack of texture to the sound, the later may be due to many years listening to Sennheisers, they do possess a bit of a "screetch" at the top end but I guess you trade that in for a more exciting and forward sound.

But after all that I do enjoy listening to them, they are fun.

On a side note, I pre-ordered the limited edition HF-2 about three weeks ago, you may have heard about these, as it seems that they are an improvement on the 125s and they don't cost a crazy amount (I'd really love to try the RS-1s, but at £600 to £700 they are maybe a bit expensive) So in about six months I'll hopefully be in possession of them

e

 

[PJPro]

Kiwi_Jonno:....Re the Rega power supply ... apparently the power supply has been updated, and is now Rega's own one. Not sure if this means the insides of the amp hard any better quality parts or not??
....
Why not take a look and see. Clearly, make sure you unplug it first and leave it while to allow any stored charge to dissipate and don't touch the circuits if you don't know what you're doing.

Kiwi_Jonno:....EDIT: Are these amps any better or about the same ?? (New Zealand $$$)

The Rega was $400...

Audio-Technica AT-HA20 - $220 2nd hand, probably wrong synergy?
Trends Audio PA-10 Tube - $460 un-known??
Project Head Box-SE - $499 has mixed reviews?
Project Head Box - $249

Grado Ra1 Headphone Amp - $999
PerreauxSXH2 Headphone - $999
Naim Headline is about $1200...

I don't wanna spend $1000 really though just giving you an indication

I would definately give the RA1 a wide berth. A couple of people have dissected that amp and found it to be little more than CMoy (very basic opamp) circuit in a fancy box.

I seen some very high praise of the Little Dot and Dark Voice headphone amps. Why not google these amps and see what others think, to see if you're willing to take a punt? There are some dedicated headfi forums out there, so these will be your best bet.

Alternatively, you could have a go at building the Graham Slee Novo. See this thread for details. I found it fairly easy and my thread should help you avoid any difficulties. The mag gave this amp 5 stars (so can't be bad) and the kit uses exactly the same circuits/components as the factory built unit.

Another possibility is Stello, a brand which I think originates from your part of the world. I seem to remember reading about aussies auditioning them down their local hifi store. You are looking at a lot more poppy and again, I've no personal experience but the reviews are glowing.

But it sounds to me like what you really need to do is audition a few headphone amps. Perhaps your Rega is OK....it's just different to what you're used to?

 

[PJPro]

And there's always the Naim forum....

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your replys.

So you think it could be the Grado headphones (SR125i)? Are the Grado 325i's about the same quality as Sennheiser HD650 given they have a different sonic presentation?

What other phones are about the same price as these?

Thanks a lot.

 

[idc]

Going by reviews the HD650 and SR325is would be in the same bracket and I would add the AKG K702s to that little audition group.

All three have different sonic presentations. Very roughly as brands they are considered Grado - dynamic, Sennheiser - all-rounder/bass, AKG - detail. My listening to various Grados, Sennheisers and the one AKG tends to confirm that view.

 

[Anonymous]

OK so I'v had a good scout around at headphone prices on the net ... I can get Grado RS2i on the net via USA for $800 roughly. In New Zealand they are $1090!!!

Are the Grado RS2i's ok in the Grado range? Or are the Grado RS1i or Grado SR325i better for money? Iv heard that the metal cases on the 325i's had a negitive effect on the sound, and that some people removed the metal bit and replaced it?

At the same price as the RS2i's, what else is there out there? I think Grado is right for me? I like a upbeat sound, punchy tight bass (even if less bass as long as its crisp) - not slow, I like a revealing sound especially in vocals. The Grado 125s dont do the revealing part. Decent soundstage though some would argue my Naim CD5x doesnt do that... My Naim Ariva's have a pretty dry bass, Im not sure if that is possible in headphone listening?

Iv heard Senns HD600. They were more revealing then the Grado 125i's as you would expect, and very natural, but I think the presentation of a higher Grado model would suit me more.

Thanks again!

 

[idc]

The only thing I can add to the above is that modding headfi is common and changing the metal cases on the Grados for wood is as much about being able to do so easily and for looks than a sound issue. I would not let that influence my buying.

 

[PJPro]

Kiwi_Jonno:OK so I'v had a good scout around at headphone prices on the net ... I can get Grado RS2i on the net via USA for $800 roughly. In New Zealand they are $1090!!!.....
Are you certain. I've tried approaching US stores and they won't sell to someone outside of the US. It's part of the agreement they have to sign up with Grado.

If you can get someone in the US (resident or visitor) to buy them for you, they are happy to send anywhere in the world.

 

[PJPro]

Did you take a look inside the box then?

 

[Anonymous]

I picked up my RS1s from eBay. The seller was based in US. Ended up paying less than £350 with a 15% eBay discount code I had at the time.

The seller also guaranteed that I would pay no duty, etc ...

Absolute bargain!

 

[matengawhat]

can vouch for both the hd650s and littledot mkiii headphone valve amp - simply sound amazing together

you can also roll the valves to suit your taste

 

[Anonymous]

Hi John, hopefully i can help you here to save some money. firstly, your headphones are fine and i think you should definately replace the amp before moving on. i have owned several pairs of headphones in my time - sr125(not the i version), sr325i, and senn hd650.
i have to say that of all those the sr125 were my favourite - testament to this is the fact i still own them. i did a/b comparisons with them and the other models metioned and found them far better than the much more expensive hd650s and could not find any real difference (other than the price) with the sr325i's.
i have used two different headphone amps in my time the graham slee solo v3 and the creek obh21se. i found the creek much more to my liking and it was also cheaper - seems to be a recurring theme here that more $$$ doesnt always equal better sound...
anyway, just thought id share that with you so you might try to get the best from your existing cans before its too late! and yes there is bag loads of detail to be had from your cans when fed through the right amp.
goodluck

 

[Anonymous]

PJPro:Kiwi_Jonno:OK so I'v had a good scout around at headphone prices on the net ... I can get Grado RS2i on the net via USA for $800 roughly. In New Zealand they are $1090!!!.....
Are you certain. I've tried approaching US stores and they won't sell to someone outside of the US. It's part of the agreement they have to sign up with Grado.

If you can get someone in the US (resident or visitor) to buy them for you, they are happy to send anywhere in the world.

I saw after that they only ship to US based people ... but guess what these guys shipped to NZ anyway! Yay my Grado RS1i's are on there way!