Scratching an Itch

[George Hincapie]

Over the last week or so I've spent £1330 on an AudioLab M-DAC, an 8000A and two 8000Ms. I've bought some Chord interconnects and connected it all to my speakers with QED Silvery Anniversary XT. I've subscribed to Tidal HIFI and, given my speakers aren't the best, the results of streamed audio and CDs played in my CD63 are pretty good (but still not quite the clarity and level of detail I hope to eventually achieve).

The problem is, at the back of my mind, part of me wishes I'd bought a new Naim 5si. I have never auditioned one. I've read the reviews and looked at videos and photos. It looks amazing. OMG I want one so much. However, even though I recognise that I am a newbie to all of this, I appreciate there's a massive difference between cosmetic appearance and sonic performance.

Am I better off keeping what I have? Or would I be better off selling the AudioLab and getting the Naim? I suspect the answer is that what I have will outperform the Naim and I should instead get some better speakers...

 

[Vladimir]

You simply must buy a Naim.

 

[lindsayt]

What speakers have you got?

 

[George Hincapie]

Monitor Audio Silver 5i

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I was in a similar position,but I knew I would want some kind of upgrade path with the amp and the nait si doesn't have one,so I opted for a second hand nait xs,which would will allow me to add a flatcap or even pre or power amps if I ever get the urge in the future.oh and it's a lovely smooth sounding amp.

 

[drummerman]

You simply must buy a Naim.

Didn't notice that but now you mention it ...

 

[George Hincapie]

Thanks for the responses.

I'd still be grateful for a 'sense' check. Particularly if any of you have done anything similar.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Thanks for the responses.

I'd still be grateful for a 'sense' check. Particularly if any of you have done anything similar. 

This is what happens

You spend money only to wish youd brought 'better'

Id listen to music and think if you like the sound or not. Then think what youd do to improve it.

Id go audition some kit at a higher budget and see for yourself if the upgrades worth it for you.

 

[plastic penguin]

Over the last week or so I've spent £1330 on an AudioLab M-DAC, an 8000A and two 8000Ms. I've bought some Chord interconnects and connected it all to my speakers with QED Silvery Anniversary XT. I've subscribed to Tidal HIFI and, given my speakers aren't the best, the results of streamed audio and CDs played in my CD63 are pretty good (but still not quite the clarity and level of detail I hope to eventually achieve).

The problem is, at the back of my mind, part of me wishes I'd bought a new Naim 5si. I have never auditioned one. I've read the reviews and looked at videos and photos. It looks amazing. OMG I want one so much. However, even though I recognise that I am a newbie to all of this, I appreciate there's a massive difference between cosmetic appearance and sonic performance.

Am I better off keeping what I have? Or would I be better off selling the AudioLab and getting the Naim? I suspect the answer is that what I have will outperform the Naim and I should instead get some better speakers...

George, hope you don't mind me saying but...

Looking at your kit and you seem to have a system imbalance: Audiolabs are generally bright, as are MA Silvers and silver cables.

From personal experience Naim and MA Silver doesn't work - too fatiguing, as is Audiolab.

I would advise you address the speakers to tame the Audiolabs or look at amps that's match well with MAs: Creek Evo, Arcam, Roksan Kandy, Audio Analogue...

Look also at copper cables: I use Chord SilverScreen. Although the 'silver' appears that's only the shield around the cable. The cable itself is copper. Have to admit cables are the lesser of the evils.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Cables are the lesser of evils until you put qed silver anniversary into a nait xs.not very advisable.harsh is an understatement.copper all the way.

 

[George Hincapie]

Over the last week or so I've spent £1330 on an AudioLab M-DAC, an 8000A and two 8000Ms. I've bought some Chord interconnects and connected it all to my speakers with QED Silvery Anniversary XT. I've subscribed to Tidal HIFI and, given my speakers aren't the best, the results of streamed audio and CDs played in my CD63 are pretty good (but still not quite the clarity and level of detail I hope to eventually achieve).

The problem is, at the back of my mind, part of me wishes I'd bought a new Naim 5si. I have never auditioned one. I've read the reviews and looked at videos and photos. It looks amazing. OMG I want one so much. However, even though I recognise that I am a newbie to all of this, I appreciate there's a massive difference between cosmetic appearance and sonic performance.

Am I better off keeping what I have? Or would I be better off selling the AudioLab and getting the Naim? I suspect the answer is that what I have will outperform the Naim and I should instead get some better speakers...

George, hope you don't mind me saying but...

Looking at your kit and you seem to have a system imbalance: Audiolabs are generally bright, as are MA Silvers and silver cables.

From personal experience Naim and MA Silver doesn't work - too fatiguing, as is Audiolab.

I would advise you address the speakers to tame the Audiolabs or look at amps that's match well with MAs: Creek Evo, Arcam, Roksan Kandy, Audio Analogue...

Look also at copper cables: I use Chord SilverScreen. Although the 'silver' appears that's only the shield around the cable. The cable itself is copper. Have to admit cables are the lesser of the evils.

I don't mind you saying at all. I have barely half a clue what I am doing and am trying to learn a lot in a very short period of time. I don't think I have done anything that's irrecoverable so far, so please advise away...

I have had the speakers ages (an eBay purchase 5 years ago) and from what I've read are considered poor performers. My own experience isn't they aren't giving me the clarity and detail I would like. I have already decided to change them, but I am not sure what to yet; I shall try the Chord cable you suggest and see what the impact is in the interim.

I need to decide which amp to go for first then choose the speakers to match that. I have no issue with selling everything and starting again if that's going to be a better approach.

I shall try and arrange an audtion of the amps, there's a place not to far away in High Wycombe.

 

[George Hincapie]

For the cable, which of these two would be best? Will call in on my way home.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-cables/chord/carnival-silver-screen/chor-carnival-spk-ca

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-cables/qed/xt40/qed-xt40

 

[plastic penguin]

For the cable, which of these two would be best? Will call in on my way home.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-cables/chord/carnival-silver...

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-cables/qed/xt40/qed-xt40

Deffo Carnival SilverScreen. But cables will only give a subtle difference.

But avoid Naim if you decide to keep the MAs. Naim produce very good amps but they are IMHO speaker sensitive. Refer to my previous post.

Always look at hi-fi in this way: Light and dark. Or bright and smooth. If you mix bright with bright with bright you are going to end up with a cloying, sibilant mixture. Likewise, if you mix smooth with smooth... you'll likely to end up with a sonic soup.

 

[gowiththeflow]

George, no mention of how you are streaming Tidal into the M-DAC?

Is it via a streamer (not mentioned) or through a PC/Mac/Laptop? Bear in mind that if using a PC/Mac/Laptop, Tidal's HiFi web player service is only accessible through the Chrome browser, otherwise it's lossy only..

Other points...

The M-Dac is on the bright side IMHO, not helped by the "neutral" sounding 8000A.

If only using digital sources, why the 8000A ? The M-Dac can be used as a pre-amp and connected directly to the 8000m's.

The 8000m's should be able to deliver a heftier, fuller punch than the 8000A on its own. Try another pre-amp or use the M-DAC straight into the 8000M's.

I've heard the Nait 5i/Si several times with various speakers, demo'ed by Naim themselves and at a good retailer and have been underwhelmed on every occassion. Too shrill and has a grainy treble. no upgrade path either, as noted above by others. far better to go to the XS2. The old XS is dull.

I don't think either the Nait 5 or Nait XS will improve much, if at all, on the 8000M power amps.

I'd be looking at trying out...

1. different DAC

2. different dedicated pre-amp (replacing the 8000A)

3. eliminating the 8000A or pre-amp and going direct DAC to the 8000M's

4. new speakers (with any of the above combinations).

z

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Naim nait xs,dull!!....smooth and non fatiguing is how I find mine and I definitely don't find myself as bored listening to it as i did my arcam a85/p85 with b&w cm5'sbut I guess one mans smooth and laid back sound is anothers dull and boring one.we all have different tastes I suppose,but calling the xs dull is doing it a bit of a diservice imho.

 

[gowiththeflow]

Naim nait xs,dull!!....

As compared to the XS2, which seemed to have more life in it.

 

[George Hincapie]

George, no mention of how you are streaming Tidal into the M-DAC?

Is it via a streamer (not mentioned) or through a PC/Mac/Laptop? Bear in mind that if using a PC/Mac/Laptop, Tidal's HiFi web player service is only accessible through the Chrome browser, otherwise it's lossy only..

Other points...

The M-Dac is on the bright side IMHO, not helped by the "neutral" sounding 8000A.

If only using digital sources, why the 8000A ? The M-Dac can be used as a pre-amp and connected directly to the 8000m's.

The 8000m's should be able to deliver a heftier, fuller punch than the 8000A on its own. Try another pre-amp or use the M-DAC straight into the 8000M's.

I've heard the Nait 5i/Si several times with various speakers, demo'ed by Naim themselves and at a good retailer and have been underwhelmed on every occassion. Too shrill and has a grainy treble. no upgrade path either, as noted above by others. far better to go to the XS2. The old XS is dull.

I don't think either the Nait 5 or Nait XS will improve much, if at all, on the 8000M power amps.

I'd be looking at trying out...

1. different DAC

2. different dedicated pre-amp (replacing the 8000A)

3. eliminating the 8000A or pre-amp and going direct DAC to the 8000M's

4. new speakers (with any of the above combinations).

z

Thanks for the response!

Tidal straight into the DAC via a laptop and USB. I didn't know about the browser restrictions, but I suspect (IIRC), that I am using the Windows Tidal application.

My system is set up with the M-DAC feeding into the 8000A. That is set up in a bi-amp configuration with the 8000Ms. So the 8000A feeds the tweeters on both speakers and each 8000M feeds the main speakers on one speaker respectively. I was told to set it up this way by the chap I bought the equipment off. As I understand it, the 8000A is using it's own (rebuilt) pre-amp section. I had to disable the pre-amp in the M-DAC.

In response to your questions:

1. Which DACs should I consider replacing the M-DAC with?

2. Same - which pre-amps if not using the M-DAC?

3. What benefits are there to the resultant audio in removing the 8000A or pre-amp entirely?

4. I would like some new speakers. Such a bewildering choice. Wondering about the B&W 685 S2 or 683 S2, but need to audition them.

Thanks for your comments regarding the Naim amp - it's great to collate as many opinions as possible.

 

[plastic penguin]

Forget changing the Dac. Yes all Audiolabs are on the bright side but changing amp or speakers will give a bigger reward. No the Naim XS isn't dull - I've heard Naim 5i and XS more than most and by nature Naims are on the lively/fatiguing side if poorly matched - and the MAs and Naim aren't a good mix.

Get to the root of the problem - speakers or amp first.

 

[George Hincapie]

I have bought the Chord speaker cable suggested. Will fit it after dinner.

 

[gowiththeflow]

My system is set up with the M-DAC feeding into the 8000A. That is set up in a bi-amp configuration with the 8000Ms. So the 8000A feeds the tweeters on both speakers and each 8000M feeds the main speakers on one speaker respectively.

Thanks for clarifying that. i had assumed you were just using the pre-amp section of the 8000A.

1. Which DACs should I consider replacing the M-DAC with?

I'm not going to suggest any. I've listened to a few. Some I couldn't tell much, if any difference. Others were either slightly brighter, or slightly warmer.

Mine is built into an amp, but if I was looking to buy one, it would be in a different price bracket altogether. The Auralic Vega is one I'd like to try again.

2. Same - which pre-amps if not using the M-DAC?

As you are using the 8000A in Bi-Amped mode, that question is probably redundant unless there's a change of amplification. If you change, there are many options open to you.

DAC - Pre - Power, DAC - Integrated, DAC/Pre - Power, DAC/Integrated.

3. What benefits are there to the resultant audio in removing the 8000A or pre-amp entirely?

You'd have to see if a DAC/Pre to Power set-up would outweigh the theoretical benefits of your current bi-amped arrangement. You might find a DAC to Integrated solution gives better results than the multi-amped Audiolab gear - as suggested by others. Personally, I think your speakers will have to be replaced first to gain any benefits.

4. I would like some new speakers. Such a bewildering choice. Wondering about the B&W 685 S2 or 683 S2, but need to audition them.

If spending money on speakers and an amp, why not look at the active speaker option. There's a far better, if not guaranteed chance that you'll get perfect amp - speaker synergy and you can lose all those horrid tin boxes in the process.

z

 

[George Hincapie]

A quick update.

I reconfigured the seperates last night, removing the 8000A and using the M-DAC as the pre-amp, straight into the 8000Ms. I reconfigured the 8000Ms to bi-wire each speaker with the Chord Carnival cable I picked up last night. I haven't had the opportunity to listen to it at reasonable volume levels (children were asleep and Mrs Hincapie raised her eye brow in a way that suggested I'd be wearing the 8000A if I touched the volume dial again), so I shall have a decent length session tonight and see.

Have done some more reseach on speakers. So far my audition list includes:

B&W 685 S2, B&W 683 S2, KEF LS50, KEF Q500 & Tannoy Revolution DC6T SE