SACD players, still worth considering?

[RCduck7]

I heard a SACD for the first time on my PS3 80GB, it's one of the first PS3 models i have that sill plays SACD's.

I was stunned what a difference a 2 channel sacd format was doing over the standard cd format, i could compare both.

I have a DAC and i'm playing with the thought of having a SACD player as a cd transport or a dedicated cd transport that also plays SACD's if there are any in existence.

But first, i'm not aware how many and what type of music is recorded on SACD's, only classical or what else?? Is there a list out there??

 

[Anonymous]

amazon.co.uk is the best place to check for SACDs (around 2500 titles are available), most of the new releases are limited to JAZZ and Classical,

if you were impressed by SACD while using the PS3 ( I have the same) wait till you listen to a dedicated SACD , personally I have a small collection , most SACD come as hybride (SACD and regular CD layer ) so you can play them everywhere, I wish and hope this format will survive,

althouh Audiophiles only consider 2 Channels, I personally find the 5.1 versions really enjoyable to listent to :

my favourite SACDs: Norah Jones 1st album, Pink floyd dark side of the moon, Malher Sphny N2 (Gilbert Kaplan), Mozart Requiem (karajan) Take Five (dave brubeck), Claire Martin ( too darn hot), Dire Straight (Brother in Arms)

Rock and pop CDs are enjoyable because of the 5.1 mixing, but as a Stereo sound, I was never able to detect the details and major difference in sound quality.

please note that PS3 is considered as a mediocre SACD player, as far as I remember Marantz have a relatively cheap (but good) players.

 

[RCduck7]

Le Robert:Rock and pop CDs are enjoyable because of the 5.1 mixing, but as a Stereo sound, I was never able to detect the details and major difference in sound quality.

please note that PS3 is considered as a mediocre SACD player, as far as I remember Marantz have a relatively cheap (but good) players.

I guess my speakers and setup is transparant enough to hear the difference in 2 channel audio, it's not a difference that wil blow you away but the soundstage became more open and voices more present, a bit more detail, if like a curtain was taken away.Going back to standard cd, it sounded a little thin. And i think the transport in general is to blame, not the DAC.

I don't have the ability (yet) to listen to 5 channel sacd production, does it come close to Prologic II music?

I used to like PLII more on my surround AV amp over stereo but since i have a dediated stereo amp al that changed in favour of stereo. Still, SACD's are recorded that way so it might change my mind.

What models would be recommended under 500£?? The transport especially would need to be good as it would mainly be used with a DAC.

 

[Thaiman]

I have heard SACD through 3 machines (Marantz SA15-S1, SA7 S-1 and Mcintosh MD-201) and I really enjoy the sound. The SA15-S1 certainly can punch well above it's price range and also very very good with CD replay too. The Marantz is without doubt, one of the biggest hifi bargain.

If you like Jazz and classical they are plenty of software on sale, the problem is Hard Rock music! I think I would be lucky if I can get 2 hands full of heavy metal SACD discs!

 

[RCduck7]

The marantz starting from the SA 15 are expensive players, i'm looking for something a bit cheaper.

I have been looking around on the internet to find some opinions on price/quality.

I came up with a Marantz SA7001-KI or the new SA7003 as a maximum for what i want to spend. Unless one of these cd players are better as a standalone cd player then if i use them as a transport with my DAC i don't have anything to resell. And i doubt my DAC with tupe output would be the lesser component.

If i would spend Marantz SA-15 money i would take a good look at a Sony SCD-XA5400ES though. Judging from the many reviews i read it has beaten it's previous XA9000ES which i also read rave reviews about.

Digging a bit deaper on the internet and i also read very positive quotes from users that heard Chinese tube/transistor sacd players like the Jungson and Shanling which sell for Marantz 7003 money and less...

 

[the record spot]

Had my 7001-KI for 18 months now and it's a very impressive player. Excellent build, it treats both formats well, it's a very musical all-rounder, maybe not a huge rocker, but it's adept with all kinds of music. Forget out and out slam, this player delivers in spades on detail and atmosphere. I play everything from Motorhead and Rammstein to Handel's Messiah. It works a treat on them all, which is how a well designed source should.

No hesitation recommending it, just bear in mind that the partnering equipment ought not to be too bass light. This isn't a player that has a deep thud, thud kind of bass delivery. Think more of an articulate line in bass presence and you're there. As for everything else, I can't fault it. Wonderful midrange and a nice rolled off treble. That said, it will give it some good slam if it's in the recording, so bear in mind also that it will reveal both good and bad in your discs.

Overall though, heartily recommend the 7001-KI. Incidentally, it's one of Hi Fi World's contemporary standard pieces and they rate it highly. WHFS&V never did a review on the player alas.

 

[RCduck7]

the record spot:Had my 7001-KI for 18 months now and it's a very impressive player. Excellent build, it treats both formats well, it's a very musical all-rounder, maybe not a huge rocker, but it's adept with all kinds of music. Forget out and out slam, this player delivers in spades on detail and atmosphere. I play everything from Motorhead and Rammstein to Handel's Messiah. It works a treat on them all, which is how a well designed source should. No hesitation recommending it, just bear in mind that the partnering equipment ought not to be too bass light. This isn't a player that has a deep thud, thud kind of bass delivery. Think more of an articulate line in bass presence and you're there. As for everything else, I can't fault it. Wonderful midrange and a nice rolled off treble. That said, it will give it some good slam if it's in the recording, so bear in mind also that it will reveal both good and bad in your discs. Overall though, heartily recommend the 7001-KI. Incidentally, it's one of Hi Fi World's contemporary standard pieces and they rate it highly. WHFS&V never did a review on the player alas.

Yes, but will the sound that you describe shine through if i only use it as a transport with an external DAC??

I wonder if i will hear a difference if i use a Marantz 7001 versus an Oppo multi format player when i will only use it as a CD/SACD transport?? I won't be using the DAC in the player you know.

http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Oppo-DV-980H/

Last year when i still didn't have my Xindak DAC 8 i compared my father's Marantz CD6000 Ki to my DacMagic and it was very hard to tell any difference. The Xindak DAC 8 did make a difference when used with a good powercord. The solid state output of the Xindak DAC 8 was more Dynamic while the output stage added some sweetness to the midrange. Difference wasn't night and day with a standard power cord though. But it makes me wonder if the Marantz 7001-Ki would be any better, i suppose not. That's why i'm concentrating mainly on a CD/SACD transport.

Any opinions how much the transport does make a difference compared to the DAC in a cd player?

If it is not that much i could go for a cheaper alternative as the Oppo i mentioned as well.

 

[the record spot]

First off comparing the Xindac 8 to the onboard 7001KI DAC is a tad off kilter given the 8 is nearly £800 on its own while to my mind, the thing I'd be looking to test for is which of the three resulting sound suits your tastes most.

Some would say a transport makes no odds (AVI are happy to align their ADM9.1 with the Apple Mac and the cheap loading trays that hold your discs) others would suggest otherwise and a look at a DCS Scarlatti rig would show you why.

All I can tell you about is my experience of the Marantz as a player and a very musical one at that, but it's still a £650 player and no more. A separate mid- to high-end DAC & transport combo is going to give it a rough ride in all likelihood.

 

[Thaiman]

RCduck7:

the record spot:.

Any opinions how much the transport does make a difference compared to the DAC in a cd player?

If it is not that much i could go for a cheaper alternative as the Oppo i mentioned as well.

Oh yes, transports do make a big different but it also depending on how revealing the rest of your system and more importantly how experienced are you? When I said Big Different I mean "the different that small but very important to my listening taste". The finer texture on the bass, the extra 1% of details or even just a few inches of voice that float out from the rest of the mix. These are all important to me but doesn't mean anyone else should give a damm!

I had apple's stuff as a transport and it left me cold, sounded like digital radio to my ears. IMO, the most over rated piece of Hifi related equipment since Nad 3020!

 

[Anonymous]

if you intend to play sacds then you wont be using the off board dac so the quality of the sacd player counts for quite a lot

 

[FunkyMonkey]

one off:

if you intend to play sacds then you wont be using the off board dac so the quality of the sacd player counts for quite a lot

I use the DSD->Analogue DAC in my Onkyo 805 receiver as my OFF BOARD DAC, and a Pioneer all-in-one that streams the DSD soundtrack from the SACD, so in effect it is used only as a transport.

 

[Anonymous]

FunkyMonkey:one off:
if you intend to play sacds then you wont be using the off board dac so the quality of the sacd player counts for quite a lot

I use the DSD->Analogue DAC in my Onkyo 805 receiver as my OFF BOARD DAC, and a Pioneer all-in-one that streams the DSD soundtrack from the SACD, so in effect it is used only as a transport.normally you cant stream from sacd to a dac without converting it to pcm so is that what your onkyo does

im a bit puzzled how this works

 

[RCduck7]

I browsed some more on the internet and the best thing for me i think is getting a 2nd hand top end sony sacd or a philips sacd1000. But the SACD1000 while a good transport has some quality problems it seems.

Rightnow i'm very tempted to go for a Jungson Magic Boat SACD player (which is a bit more expensive) since my wife seems to be okay with me buying a dedicated transport so i won't have to turn on the plasma screen to listen to a CD as it is with the PS3.

If i would go for the Jungson i would compare it to my DAC 8, who knows it might sound better.

I will keep it posted here, but it may take a few weeks though.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

one off:FunkyMonkey:one off:

if you intend to play sacds then you wont be using the off board dac so the quality of the sacd player counts for quite a lot

I use the DSD->Analogue DAC in my Onkyo 805 receiver as my OFF BOARD DAC, and a Pioneer all-in-one that streams the DSD soundtrack from the SACD, so in effect it is used only as a transport.normally you cant stream from sacd to a dac without converting it to pcm so is that what your onkyo does

im a bit puzzled how this works

As you probably know, SACD's store and read their data as a DSD rather than PCM digital signal.

Obviously you need to do a analogue to digital conversion. Most - nearly all - SACD players convert to PCM first, then to analogue. The PCM stage is there for various reasons - cost, universal disk playability, speaker delay processing.

Some SACD players - even my £100 universal Pioneer DV600AV - allow you to output the DSD stream from the disk unadultared via the HDMI slot. (For different behaviour, think of the launch PS3 models that converted to PCM first.)

Now, my Onkyo 805 receiver is a rare beast in that it can take a DSD stream via HDMI and convert direct to analogue, bypassing PCM altogether. This gives you a very pure sound (allowing for the signature Onkyo sound that is beautifully revealing, but too harsh for some).

There is a list somehwere on www.sa-cd.net of receivers that can do DSD->analogue, i.e. you could use them as DACs, then pre-out their signal to a, for example, 5 channel amp.

This would be a really (relatively) cost-efficient way of getting a very pure SACD sound.

And would beat the pants off CD based systems costing an order of magnitude (10 times) more.

 

[RCduck7]

FunkyMonkey:one off:FunkyMonkey:one off:

if you intend to play sacds then you wont be using the off board dac so the quality of the sacd player counts for quite a lot

I use the DSD->Analogue DAC in my Onkyo 805 receiver as my OFF BOARD DAC, and a Pioneer all-in-one that streams the DSD soundtrack from the SACD, so in effect it is used only as a transport.normally you cant stream from sacd to a dac without converting it to pcm so is that what your onkyo does

im a bit puzzled how this works

There is a list somehwere on www.sa-cd.net of receivers that can do DSD->analogue, i.e. you could use them as DACs, then pre-out their signal to a, for example, 5 channel amp.

This would be a really (relatively) cost-efficient way of getting a very pure SACD sound.

And would beat the pants off CD based systems costing an order of magnitude (10 times) more.

I'm not into the 5 channel sound thing but seriously... There are a lot of SACD players out there that can be used as a DAC? Ok, then i can sell a my DacMagic propably and keep my high end DAC? I'm not sure i know what you mean.So the back of the particular SACD player has a digtal in and an analogue out? That's how a DAC works.

I don't find the list of SACD players that do DSD to analogue on the website you mentioned though, can you be more specific?

Does the Philips SACD1000 do that?