Reel to Reel

[Infiniteloop]

I developed an itch late last night, and this morning it's still there.

I've never had one, but I've always loved the look of Reel to Reel tape recorders. I watched Pulp Fiction for what seems like the umpteenth time recently, and one features in a scene where Vincent (Travolta) is entertaining his bosses wife Mia (Uma Thurman) for the evening. Anyway it just looks so cool in a 70's retro - professional kind of way. I was surfing the usual online auction site last night and there are loads for sale. Of course, the ones I really fancy (the Pioneer RT-909 and the AKAI GX-635D) are the most expensive at around £1250.

I also like the look of the older Revox and Tandberg machines.

I think one of these loaded with a suitable playlist would be awesome for parties.

Does anybody have any experience with these or similar machines?

Any advice or info would be appreciated.

 

[lindsayt]

Blank tape is expensive.

Buying a music collection of master tapes, master tape copies, radio broadcast tapes, live recordings, commercially available recordings will bankrupt you, unless you're a multi-millionaire.

Plus you need to be aware of different formats. 2 track and 4 track, which require different playback heads. 1/4" tape is the most common one, but master tapes may well be on wider tape. You need the right reel to reel machine for the right tape width.

Then there's tape shedding. Certain types of tape have problems where over time they start shedding. They will leave a horrible brown smudge all over your tape heads and rollers, which can be cleaned off. There's tape baking to conteract this - temporarily.

Tape heads wear out with use. They can be reground. As far as I know, nobody makes tape heads any more.

And for parties, you're likely to have to change the tape every 20 to 40 minutes, depending on the tape speed, and length.

A reel to reel machine will enable you to engange in hi-fi oneupmanship. Where you will be able to put together a system for less than £10,000 that would have a good chance of sounding better than a £1 million vinyl based system.

 

[andyjm]

Dont do it.

A well maintained, decent machine (studer / revox for example) at 15 ips and with suitable noise reduction can hold its own with modern digital recording - until the advent of digital mastering, all tracks were mastered on such machines.

However, decent machines demand respect and regular maintenance to perform well - not beer and fumbled fingers at a party. In my broadcast days, 'production' analogue machines had their heads cleaned and aligned daily.

From a practical perspective, at a halfway decent tape speed (7 1/2 ips for example) you won't get much more than an hour and a half from a 3600' spool. At a 'hifi' speed of 15 ips you are down to around 45 minutes.

If you want to explore reel to reel analogue recording, then great, but I really wouldn't recommend it for a party.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Dont do it.

A well maintained, decent machine (studer / revox for example) at 15 ips and with suitable noise reduction can hold its own with modern digital recording - until the advent of digital mastering, all tracks were mastered on such machines.

However, decent machines demand respect and regular maintenance to perform well - not beer and fumbled fingers at a party. In my broadcast days, 'production' analogue machines had their heads cleaned and aligned daily.

From a practical perspective, at a halfway decent tape speed (7 1/2 ips for example) you won't get much more than an hour and a half from a 3600' spool. At a 'hifi' speed of 15 ips you are down to around 45 minutes.

If you want to explore reel to reel analogue recording, then great, but I really wouldn't recommend it for a party.

I suppose I ought to explain 'Party'. - By this I meant Dinner Party or Wine tasting parties, which are probably more sedate than the usual beer fest!

HiFi is my main hobby, so I'm not really looking for convenience. I have a Mac Mini/Devialet set-up for that.

I also have a Valve Amp driven system and like to try different valve combinations depending on what mood I'm in, so I'm ceratinly not averse to maintenance and putting a bit of work in.

I understand the problems with tape too.

So other than that I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for specific machines/brands?

 

[davedotco]

I always wanted one of these....

Best I ever managed was this......

 

[andyjm]

For home / semi-pro use, the Studer/ReVox B77 was considered the Rolls Royce of its day. It had many of the features of Studer's studio machines, but in a more usable format.

 

[Covenanter]

I had an Akai back in the day. I see there are loads on Ebay. Great fun!

Chris

 

[Vladimir]

I had an Akai back in the day. I see there are loads on Ebay. Great fun!

Chris

Do you still get the phantom nose itch?

 

[davedotco]

The wine tasting, cocain snorting, pulp fiction watching, consumer grade Technics, Teac, Akai, Sony and Philips owners, that record music on old used reels, feeding signal from their ipads or laptops. To them it's just great fun and as long as it makes music without any horrid distortion or speed irregularity. It is a great party piece and something to talk about while entertaining guests. Dude, it's just cool.

Then there are these guys that replied on your thread *biggrin* with headmaster's strict tone telling you how you should buy a professional R2R Revox or Ampex machine and have it maintained professionally and buy master tapes and such. No guests touching it or god forbid playing music on it during parties with high alcohol and drug to blood ratios!

I say buy a $300 R2R in good shape, buy some reels that are working, have it cleaned and just have fun with it.

There is absoluely zero point to buying a reel to reel in these times, spares are hard to get which makes maintenance and set up difficult. Anything decent and in good condition will attract collectors and hipsters, which will push the price up.

Tape is expensive too, even 'everyday' Ampex 406 will cost £20-30 a time, Ampex 456 can easily be double that. The chances of buying any good prerecorded tapes are pretty slim, let alone any 'studio masters'.

A full 32 minutes at 15ips makes for very busy 'parties'. I know, I used a B77 running at 7.5ips and had 4-5 tapes suitable for parties (into my JBL monitors) got a lot of invites. But that was a long time ago.

These days, a Spotify playlist on an iPad, an AEX and a pair of Mackie HR824 monitors will get the job done.

 

[lindsayt]

Infiniteloop, do you want a 2 track 1/4" machine, or a 4 track 1/4" machine?

If you want a 2 track machine only you might as well get a Studer or Ampex. They are lovely pieces of engineering and sound great.

If you want to play 4 track as well as 2 track get an Otari 5050.

 

[davedotco]

Infiniteloop, do you want a 2 track 1/4" machine, or a 4 track 1/4" machine?

If you want a 2 track machine only you might as well get a Studer or Ampex. They are lovely pieces of engineering and sound great.

If you want to play 4 track as well as 2 track get an Otari 5050.

Multi-head tape machines are pretty rare, what did you find?

 

[Infiniteloop]

The wine tasting, cocain snorting, pulp fiction watching, consumer grade Technics, Teac, Akai, Sony and Philips owners, that record music on old used reels, feeding signal from their ipods or laptops. To them it's just great fun and as long as it makes music without any horrid distortion or speed irregularity. It is a great party piece and something to talk about while entertaining guests. Dude, it's just cool.

Then there are these guys that replied on your thread *biggrin* with headmaster's strict tone telling you how you should buy a professional R2R Revox or Ampex machine and have it maintained professionally and buy master tapes and such. No guests touching it or god forbid playing music on it during parties with high alcohol and drug to blood ratios!

I say buy a $300 R2R in good shape, buy some reels that are working, have it cleaned and just have fun with it.

Thanks Vlad,

That's what I was thinking. - It's not like it's my main system or anything...

Like I said at the outset...... I just have an itch. *diablo*

 

[Infiniteloop]

Infiniteloop, do you want a 2 track 1/4" machine, or a 4 track 1/4" machine?

If you want a 2 track machine only you might as well get a Studer or Ampex. They are lovely pieces of engineering and sound great.

If you want to play 4 track as well as 2 track get an Otari 5050.

Multi-head tape machines are pretty rare, what did you find?

Thanks for the Heads Up. Only just started looking...

It's exciting, isn't it?

 

[Vladimir]

The wine tasting, cocain snorting, pulp fiction watching, consumer grade Technics, Teac, Akai, Sony and Philips owners, that record music on old used reels, feeding signal from their ipods or laptops. To them it's just great fun and as long as it makes music without any horrid distortion or speed irregularity, it is a great party piece and something to talk about while entertaining guests. Dude, it's just cool.

Then there are these guys that replied on your thread *biggrin* with headmaster's strict tone telling you how you should buy a professional R2R Revox or Ampex machine and have it maintained professionally and buy master tapes and such. No guests touching it or god forbid playing music on it during parties with high alcohol and drug to blood ratios!

I say buy a $300 R2R in good shape, buy some reels that are working, have it cleaned and just have fun with it.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Oh dear. The temptation...

I know. I saw that one......

Not ready to pull the trigger yet though until I know what I really want.....

 

[Vladimir]

Oh dear. The temptation...

The hunt has begun. Cue E.S. Posthumus - Menouthis.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Oh dear. The temptation...

The hunt has begun. Cue E.S. Posthumus - Menouthis.

I'm already there with you.... Plus Heaven 17, Human League, Depeche Mode, Yazoo......

 

[Vladimir]

DM via R2R is something brilliant to get your owling nights going.

 

[davedotco]

Beautiful piece of kit, the compact, semi-pro machine of the sixties.

It was replaced by the A77, probably the biggest selling recorder of it's type ever. A lot of people loved the G36, valves were still cool even back then and the noisy electronics in the basic A77 were a big issue.

If you are even remotely serious about a tape machine then, if you are actually going to use it, the B77 is what you want.

Ideally a low speed machine 3.75/7.5 ips and preferably a 2 track, there are still companies/engineers about who will set it up and maintain it for you, not cheap though.

Plenty of options from the likes of Teac/Tascam, Otari much rarer, but they do come up. You may occasionally see big machines from hi-fi companies like Technics or Pioneer but in decent condition their prices are formidable.

 

[Vladimir]

If you are even remotely serious about a tape machine then, if you are actually going to use it, the B77 is what you want.

Or why not just go directly with this one and skip the future upgrades. Is it any good? Are those silvery bits cup holders?

 

[Freddy58]

what's the sound quality like on these machines, generally speaking?

 

[davedotco]

If you are even remotely serious about a tape machine then, if you are actually going to use it, the B77 is what you want.

Or why not just go directly with this one and skip the future upgrades. Is it any good? Are those silvery bits cup holders?

The A800 series was the last great analog recorder in the european market, the 24 track 2 inch was close to being the industry standard in the pre digital era, the 2 track less popular due to it's cost. The 'cup holders' allow you to move/rock the tape by hand for editing purposes, but nowhere near the sophistication of the ATR 100. The Studer was all about ruggedness and reliability, huge and very heavy, a real workhorse.

Know these machines pretty well, even the quite rare 32 track, one of which was last seen doing sterling duty as a door stop in Abbey Road. (They didn't much like it)

 

[Vladimir]

The A800 series was the last great analog recorder in the european market. The Studer was all about ruggedness and reliability, huge and very heavy, a real workhorse.

Why would anyone buy a Patek over that? What a silly world we live in.

Know these machines pretty well, even the quite rare 32 track, one of which was last seen doing sterling duty as a door stop in Abbey Road. (They didn't much like it)

It figures people who endorse B&W would do such a thing. Very very sad.

 

[davedotco]

The A800 series was the last great analog recorder in the european market. The Studer was all about ruggedness and reliability, huge and very heavy, a real workhorse.

Why would anyone buy a Patek over that? What a silly world we live in.

Know these machines pretty well, even the quite rare 32 track, one of which was last seen doing sterling duty as a door stop in Abbey Road. (They didn't much like it)

It figures people who endorse B&W would do such a thing. Very very sad.

This was back in Ken Townsends day and as studio manager he had a lot of influence. The EMI engineers at Hayes had set it up and sent it to the studio for some 'hands on' but it wasn't much liked by the senior staff.

Well pre B&W too, Tannoys for the classical work, JBL for the Rock'n'roll.

 

[Vladimir]

what's the sound quality like on these machines, generally speaking?

Got any 70's music on CDs as ADD, DAD, AAD? That's how the pro recording R2R machines sound. They are sweeter and I hear there is still practice in some studios to have the master recording pass through tape (DAD) to 'take the edge off' and have it the recognizable 'tape effect' of the golden days of rock, jazz, pop and blues.

Of course Dave and Andy would have the right answers in greater details. I'd appreciate if they could share.