I have several times suggested setting the rear channels oit of phase by reversing the plugs. I think it gives a little more surround and maybe?? simulates the bipole/dipole type rears. Having a minute before lunch, wondered if anyone will/have given it a try? Feeling presently unique but lonely.
Rears out of phase
- Thread starter RobinKidderminster
- Start date
BenLaw
Well-known member
Not sure I agree. What do you mean by 'a little more surround'?
I understand that the point of rears is that they do not highlight themselves, that the soundfield is diffuse and natural. But you could say the same thing about a decent stereo setup: it is stereo and you're not supposed to be hearing the music coming from the speakers. Therefore IMO and IME if you have decent rears (mine are inexpensive) and they are well amplified and the soundtrack has been well mixed / mastered / produced then you shouldn't really need to be doing anything like this.
I understand that the point of rears is that they do not highlight themselves, that the soundfield is diffuse and natural. But you could say the same thing about a decent stereo setup: it is stereo and you're not supposed to be hearing the music coming from the speakers. Therefore IMO and IME if you have decent rears (mine are inexpensive) and they are well amplified and the soundtrack has been well mixed / mastered / produced then you shouldn't really need to be doing anything like this.
Certainly cant disagree Ben tho dipoles (or is it bipoles?) do send oit of pjase signals. More to the point I was hoping someone (with banana plugs) could try it to see what they think. Cheers for the response.
BenLaw
Well-known member
I know, you're right. When I got rears (first time) I wondered whether I needed dipoles for that reason. As I've settled into the whole thing, I've picked up on noises which come from different positions behind your head, bang in the middle or a third of the way across. This can only be the product of decent mastering and I wouldn't want to lose this; I assume it would be impossible to retain with out of phase speakers.
No easy way to change my speaker cable I'm afraid, it's all tucked inside and a PITA to do. Hope someone else can and reports back
No easy way to change my speaker cable I'm afraid, it's all tucked inside and a PITA to do. Hope someone else can and reports back
Rob,
Running rear mono-pole speakers out of phase will do noting but ruin your rear sound stage. Dipole speakers operate in a specific manner, with two drivers, one running out of phase and one running in phase, on opposing sides of the speaker.
The whole purpose of this arrangement is to create a null area directly in front of the speaker (a null being an area where very little sound can be heard from the speaker). The reason for doing this is so that the speaker can be placed fairly close to the listener whilst reducing the localisation of that speaker that the listener would otherwise experience if it was direct firing. This then tricks the listener into thinking the sounds are further away, and the sound field therefore appears more diffuse.
Setting your speakers out of phase won't achieve this, they'll just sound 'phasey' with a collapsed stereo sound stage.
Personally I don't like dipoles, I think their performance is compromised by design. Bi-poles are much better (fortunately many di-pole speakers have a switch that also allows bi-pole operation). Here both drivers run in phase, so no null is created, but you still get a broad dispersion that creates a more diffuse sound field and less localisation.
If you are using mono-pole speakers for your rears, and are experiencing too much localisation, you'd be far better to try angling them away from the MLP, or raising them higher than the MPL (surround should ideally be at least 1ft above ear level in most cases anyway).
- Gareth
Running rear mono-pole speakers out of phase will do noting but ruin your rear sound stage. Dipole speakers operate in a specific manner, with two drivers, one running out of phase and one running in phase, on opposing sides of the speaker.
The whole purpose of this arrangement is to create a null area directly in front of the speaker (a null being an area where very little sound can be heard from the speaker). The reason for doing this is so that the speaker can be placed fairly close to the listener whilst reducing the localisation of that speaker that the listener would otherwise experience if it was direct firing. This then tricks the listener into thinking the sounds are further away, and the sound field therefore appears more diffuse.
Setting your speakers out of phase won't achieve this, they'll just sound 'phasey' with a collapsed stereo sound stage.
Personally I don't like dipoles, I think their performance is compromised by design. Bi-poles are much better (fortunately many di-pole speakers have a switch that also allows bi-pole operation). Here both drivers run in phase, so no null is created, but you still get a broad dispersion that creates a more diffuse sound field and less localisation.
If you are using mono-pole speakers for your rears, and are experiencing too much localisation, you'd be far better to try angling them away from the MLP, or raising them higher than the MPL (surround should ideally be at least 1ft above ear level in most cases anyway).
- Gareth
Thanks Garerh. I like scientific explainations. However, my speaker positions are pretty well fixed and probably not ideal. I would also say that my ears are less than golden (age u know). I cant say that rear sound stage suffers though I can understand that it would/does. For the sake of 30secs and a little listening, I hope nevertheless, that someone will try it. Cheers.
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