question for musicraft about atc and anybody else with atc experience

[stpierre76]

Hi rick from musicreaft and everybody else,,

I am in the process deciding what speaker will best suit me.I have narrowed it down to 2 brands, the atc scm11 and spendor sa1(due to budget,ease of demo and trade in..).I will be combining hifi and home theatre together(projector and screen dropping from ceiling when required).I would like to have all 5 speakers identical(5 sa1 or 5 act scm11), but in one of your previous threads you posted a comment about the atc:

"The ATC's are flat and they are honest however (due to the superb enginneering) they are natural. Therefore they do not favour any type of soundtrack (music or movies) and instead will allow the qualities of your components to shine through by enabling them to breathe."

what do you mean by that???are the atc really not suited for a ht use?.Although i definately prioritise hifi over ht i still enjoy decent detail and clarity in movies.Also if i do go down the atc road, how do they sub perform?are they quite musical or more movie orientated???

I understand you are extremely busy but your advice is very much appreciated.

thanks in advance

sincerely yours john

 

[ID.]

http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/506377.aspx

But is seems to be bolstered with some serious ATC amplification.

 

[Craig M.]

i think rick means that atc speakers are happy playing any kind of music/movies, they don't have favourites and just sound like whatever is playing. i think of them as being like chameleons.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The SA1's have been primarily designed with music in mind. There is no matching centre, so another SA1 would need to be used to create a matching one. Because they use a smaller driver, I would treat them as a satellite speaker - a speaker which is normally bandwidth limited, so the use of a sub is required. Because these would be dressed over at somewhere between 80Hz and 150Hz, a good quality sub is needed to deal with the higher frequencies that many subs aren't designed to do. The ATC's will be fine in this respect.

The SCM11's will be better in some respects as they have a wider useable bandwidth - what I mean is that at higher volumes, the longer throw mid/bass driver of the ATC's is capable of doing more work than the smaller SA1 driver(which is more the size of the SCM7 driver. The Juan drawback is that the ATC's aren't as naturally efficient as most other speakers due to being a sealed box design, so require amplification with a little more meat than average. The SCM11's are 85dB efficient, whereas most speakers tend to be 88-89dB on average - 3dB less is about half volume.

I would say the ATC's are going to be better for the combination of home cinema and hi-fi, but it'll be dependent on your intended amplification. What are you using? Or what do you intend to use? Do you like watching movies at higher volumes, or lower volumes?

I would say that ProAc might also be worth looking into to suit your needs. Of course, which speakers you prefer the sound of is dependent on your preferences. Only an audition will inform you of your ideal choice.

 

[stpierre76]

thank to everybody that has answered so far.I indeed forgot to add which gear m using,I have the cyrus pre xpd with xpower and just ordered the power supply for pre.music loudness is never a priority for me, but enjoy sharp detail and stereo imagingMy normal volume on the pre xpd/xpower is generally between -40 to -30(-25 if no one is here and no neighbours around).As for movies,i use to like them loud but with kids now probably moderate level.I even turned the sub off for the moment(cheapish sub wish i intend to replace when i get my system fully completed as i want it to complement the system).

sincerely yours

 

[Frank Harvey]

Do you know which AV receiver you'll be using?

 

[MattSPL]

Hi stpierre76

You could also consider going for ATC scm19's as fronts, and scm7's as rears. All ATC speakers will work seamlessly together as they have the same sonic signature, or lack of it, meaning you hear the music or the movie an not coloration added by the speaker.

Contact Rick and he will be able to help you with any ATC queries you may have.

 

[stpierre76]

hi david,

I will most likely go for a integra processor and buy a cyrus 6 power for surround and a mono x for all important centre unless i buy another xpower and bridge it.

thanks for for time and interest..

 

[Frank Harvey]

As a better balanced system, and thinking more long term, how about moving the X Power to rear duties and using Mono X's across all front three speakers? I say this because the Mono X is quite a different beast to the X Power, and this route will give a far more even sound across the front three speakers that produce the majority of the sound. Also, going for ATC, you'll need their dynamics!!

 

[Frank Harvey]

The other reason I say that is that there should be some good prices going round on Mono X's as they've just replaced them with the X200.

 

[stpierre76]

Hi david and everybody else that contributed to this post and above all thanks for all your inputs..I indeed would love to move the xpower to rear and get 3 monox but ve got to be realistic.Ialso have another hobby which is cycling so you can imagine the cost if i were to have the best of hifi and best of cycling ear.Unfornutately for me none of those passion are cheap.but who knows if deals are quite good i may be tempted.anyway i don t think i d waste my money on a monox for the centre, if i do go down the mono x road for the front i d be happy to have the xpower as centre.at the end of the day, i prioritise music over movies so having all 3 front channels identical is probably not too much of an issue.

By the way i was reading the awards issue and they mentioned that the atc scm 11 are by far the best speaker they ever heard up to 1500 quid.that does include a fair amount of good speakers then..

do you know if the atc require a as long burn in period as the sa1 by any chance???do you also know how bad the atc will be affected by their back near flush with a back wall.(no side wall around just the back ).what will i loose/gain??

sincerely yors john

 

[John Duncan]

stpierre76:By the way i was reading the awards issue and they mentioned that the atc scm 11 are by far the best speaker they ever heard up to 1500 quid.

Actually I think you'll find that what it said was:

"Take the EB2s out of the equation...and absolutely nothing we've heard below £1500 does better than these ATCs"

 

[plastic penguin]

JohnDuncan:stpierre76:By the way i was reading the awards issue and they mentioned that the atc scm 11 are by far the best speaker they ever heard up to 1500 quid. Actually I think you'll find that what it said was: "Take the EB2s out of the equation...and absolutely nothing we've heard below £1500 does better than these ATCs"

That's absolutely correct, but I have a small issue with this: I don't doubt the ATCs sonic abilities for one moment. However, we all, at some point, get a little carried away by reviews (includes me), and there's nothing wrong with that. That said, I wish the OP would listen to 2 or 3 different brands at home before committing. Really do believe it would save a lot of heartache....

I know from personal experience, some of the most unlikeliest combos [can] work better than 'proven partners'. You need to factor into the equastion not just room acoustics and topology, but personal taste....

 

[John Duncan]

I'm not disputing that, I'm just trying to add the word 'not' missing from the (non-deliberate) selective quote 'the ATCs are the best speaker under £1500'

 

[Frank Harvey]

stpierre76:Hi david and everybody else that contributed to this post and above all thanks for all your inputs..I indeed would love to move the xpower to rear and get 3 monox but ve got to be realistic.Ialso have another hobby which is cycling so you can imagine the cost if i were to have the best of hifi and best of cycling ear.I know

By the way i was reading the awards issue and they mentioned that the atc scm 11 are by far the best speaker they ever heard up to 1500 quid.that does include a fair amount of good speakers then..I feel that the ATC's are the best speakers under £1k - although they have some competition now from the new KEF Q Series - but that's my opinion. I've not heard EB's.

do you know if the atc require a as long burn in period as the sa1 by any chance???do you also know how bad the atc will be affected by their back near flush with a back wall.(no side wall around just the back ).what will i loose/gain??ATC's do require quite a long running in time - around 100-200 hours due to their heavily engineered drive units. As far as placement is concerned, the fact that they're sealed cabinets means that they can be placed close to a wall with far less drawbacks than rear ported (or even front ported) speakers.

 

[plastic penguin]

JohnDuncan:I'm not disputing that, I'm just trying to add the word 'not' missing from the (non-deliberate) selective quote 'the ATCs are the best speaker under £1500'

Sorry John, I wasn't taking a swipe at you. If only some posters would try other brands alongside their perceived favs before nailing their decisions to the sticking post.

 

[stpierre76]

my appologies for not quoting the whole picture as described in the article.did not mean to offend anybody..I know that they are many other brands out there that may suit me sonically but due to my location, current set up and financial situation,i can only go for those 2 brands hence me showing so much interest.

anyway, thanks again david for your valued and expert opinion and also everybody else that contributed..

sincerely yours froggy

 

[John Duncan]

None taken at all. Just wanted to highlight that the EB2s beat the ATCs in a head to head (but lost out on an award on the availability rule) - or at least that's how I've read what the mag guys have said.

 

[stpierre76]

to be honest i really didn t even realise that was the problem..i guess the the quote "sporadic supply" should have made me realise it..

thanks for clearing that anyway..good to keep things in perpestive..I have know to be na bit impulsive and jump to conclusion

by the way, i missed the october issue and can not get it in any shops.I was really looking forward to buying it as there was an article about itunes and dac..m i correct??Do you know how i could get that issue or at least get thetarticle regarding itunes and dac...(m interested as i got the cyrus pre xpd + xpower and running itjunes in lossless format to play all my music).

sincerely yours froggy

 

[MUSICRAFT]

stpierre76:
Hi rick from musicreaft and everybody else,,

I am in the process deciding what speaker will best suit me.I have narrowed it down to 2 brands, the atc scm11 and spendor sa1(due to budget,ease of demo and trade in..).I will be combining hifi and home theatre together(projector and screen dropping from ceiling when required).I would like to have all 5 speakers identical(5 sa1 or 5 act scm11), but in one of your previous threads you posted a comment about the atc:

"The ATC's are flat and they are honest however (due to the superb enginneering) they are natural. Therefore they do not favour any type of soundtrack (music or movies) and instead will allow the qualities of your components to shine through by enabling them to breathe."

what do you mean by that???are the atc really not suited for a ht use?.Although i definately prioritise hifi over ht i still enjoy decent detail and clarity in movies.Also if i do go down the atc road, how do they sub perform?are they quite musical or more movie orientated???

I understand you are extremely busy but your advice is very much appreciated.

thanks in advance

sincerely yours john

Hi John

Thanks for your post.

I am sorry for my late reply as i have been extremely busy over the last few days and your thread also simply slipped my mind. I am going to be tied up now with business again for the few hours so i hope you will not mind but the earliest i'll probably be able to respond to your post now will be tomorrow.

I apologise for any inconvenience caused.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[stpierre76]

Hi rick and thanks for replyinjg and even taking in interesrt in my thread..I really appreciate it and understand that you musty get swamped by questions here and in the shop..

sincerely yours john

 

[MUSICRAFT]

MUSICRAFT:stpierre76:
Hi rick from musicreaft and everybody else,,

I am in the process deciding what speaker will best suit me.I have narrowed it down to 2 brands, the atc scm11 and spendor sa1(due to budget,ease of demo and trade in..).I will be combining hifi and home theatre together(projector and screen dropping from ceiling when required).I would like to have all 5 speakers identical(5 sa1 or 5 act scm11), but in one of your previous threads you posted a comment about the atc:

"The ATC's are flat and they are honest however (due to the superb enginneering) they are natural. Therefore they do not favour any type of soundtrack (music or movies) and instead will allow the qualities of your components to shine through by enabling them to breathe."

what do you mean by that???are the atc really not suited for a ht use?.Although i definately prioritise hifi over ht i still enjoy decent detail and clarity in movies.Also if i do go down the atc road, how do they sub perform?are they quite musical or more movie orientated???

I understand you are extremely busy but your advice is very much appreciated.

thanks in advance

sincerely yours john

Hi John

Thanks for your post.

I am sorry for my late reply as i have been extremely busy over the last few days and your thread also simply slipped my mind. I am going to be tied up now with business again for the few hours so i hope you will not mind but the earliest i'll probably be able to respond to your post now will be tomorrow.

I apologise for any inconvenience caused.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi John

Thanks for your patience.

What i meant is (as Craig M. and MattSPL have also said) ATC monitors are happy to be used with any type of movie or music soundtracks regardless of whether their monitors are used in a two or multi channel system. ATC's own sub woofers are equally impressive, like their main monitors don't favour any type of soundtrack and importantly gel perfectly well with their main monitors.

Five SCM11's will add up to an excellent set of main monitors however if you can accomodate and budget allows then i highly recommend you also consider ATC's C3 passive centre as it will offer a massive step up in performance over a single SCM11. Instead of using one CLD (Constrained Layer Damping) mid/bass drive unit (as is also used in ATC's SCM16 Professional monitors) the C3 centre uses two CLD mid/bass drive units and it is mainly down to two these CLD drive units the C3 offers a significant performance advantage over a single SCM11.

The ATC's will also be fine at low/moderate levels. The Cyrus amplifiers have power which is more then sufficiently potent to work with the various ATC monitors mentioned. ATC drive units are very constant thereby allowing an amplifier to deliver its full power all the time (prior to clipping). The impedance of a speaker is far more important then its overall efficiency.

The SCM11's with their closed box design and more importantly flat and honest presentation enable them to be placed close to walls without the bass in particular getting itself into a twist. ATC's passive monitors take around five hundred hours of use from new before they fully settle down.

Studio Control Monitor

ATC inspire confidence

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[stpierre76]

hi rick,

Wow, what a great set of advice.very detailed and easy to comprehend.i trully appreciate the time you took to reply.Although i did like the sa1 something at the back of my head was saying not to commit to them and that i should prob go for atc.

thanks again and i will let post some pics and details of how i go once i finalise everything..

sincerely yours

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi John

Your welcome.

Btw, if possible please have a look at the CLD mid/bass drive unit of an SCM11 in the flesh (away from the cabinet).

I am confident you'll be impressed.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[stpierre76]

Hi rick

Once again, thanks for replying and the advice.I will indeed try to look at that driver.I am impressed by the amount run in the atc require.It s a shame as ve been known to be a bit impatient..

but i guess good things come to those who wait..The other good thing is that both the 11 and 19 look identical(apart from volume) so if i want upgrade later my wife won t even realise it so won t get into trouble....

previously you mentioned that the atc subs are impressive.Did you mean musicaslly or ht??

sincerely yours john