projector advice

beachBOYken

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hi

for my next set i might invest in a projector , but i know very little about them , what i need to know is how big of space do you need and what sort of surface should you use ?

cheers
 

Clare Newsome

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Today's projectors are more living-room friendly than ever - gone are the days when you needed a large, dedicated cinema room to house them.

As an indication, I enjoy a Full HD projector despite living in a flat - I sit less than 12ft away from an 80in screen (with the projector directly above/behind our heads on a glass shelving unit).

Many models can be used on a coffee table in front of you, rack or ceiling-mounted above/behind you, and in some cases to the side of your seating position.

You can also get a wide range of screens, including high-gain designs that enable to you watch without having to have black-out curtains/wait until it's dark before enjoying big-screen entertainment.

As you can tell, i'm a big projector fan. Any other questions, please ask!
 
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Anonymous

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Hi Clare.,
I was intending to buy a Plasma tv very soon, but having read abit about Projectors im keen to know abit more.ÿ
To put it simply, I was worried about the small space in my room 4m x 3m to fit a projector in.ÿ
I understand that some projectors can be fitted with a short throw lense to solve this?
 

Clare Newsome

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Just check the throw distance, and be realistic about screen-size. Many of the new budget designs are great for smaller rooms, and even our new product of the year JVC HD350 projector - £3500 worth - is flexble; can fill 80in+ screen from under 4m.
 
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Anonymous

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To be honest, Id only want to fill a 50inch screen size, but would prefer for my pictures to look more realistic, hence why I am keen on the projector screen.ÿ

ÿI think 3,500 is pushing it for me, 2,000 is more realistic. What do you think?ÿ
 

Clare Newsome

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More than enough, but I would urge a larger screen (a 60in frameless screen, go on!). If you're not desperate to buy right now, we've got a Group Test off @£2k designs - including the new Panasonic PT4000 - coming up before Xmas.
 
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Anonymous

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I think ill take your advice on that one : )ÿ

ÿNo im going to buy in January. So now im going to need an AV amp, speakers, and PS3 (Blu Ray) and Stand and Screen as you mentioned?

ÿÿ
 
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Anonymous

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A 50" or 60" diagonal is very small for a projector image. 50" diagonal 16:9 image is 43.6"width x 24.5"height = 7.4 sq ft. 60" diagonal 16:9 image is 52.3"width x 29.4" = 10.7 sq ft. Image brightness is projector lumens devided by image area in sq ft multiplied by screen gain (1 for matt white). A projector with say 800 lumens on a 50" diagonal 16:9 screen would be 108.1ftL, and on a 60" diagonal 16:9 screen would be 74.8 ftL. A flat screen is usually around 30-40ftL and designed to be watchable with the living room lights on. Projection screens are usually aimed at 12ftL to 16ftL with the room lights off, with some people prefering 8ftL in a batcave and others upto 24ftL with some ambient lighting. You are going to need to use a low gain greyscreen which will also help reduce washout of simultaneous contrast in a non-dark painted room, or/and a camera lens neutral density filter to drop the brightness. A nd2 filter halfs brightness, a nd4 quarters it. A very bright dlp projector image maybe unwatchable due to dlp rainbow effect, while a very bright image by other projectors will just give eyestrain with prolonged viewing.

When calculating screen brightness, I would recommend treating the manufactures quoted figures with a pinch of salt. Using low lamp mode to increase lamp life and after a few hundred hours of lamp, not using white peaking or brilliant color on a dlp projector, and calibrated for accurate colour, you maybe looking at 50% of the manufactures claimed lumens. Lamps dim by upto about 20% in the first few hundred hours then slowly down to as low as 50% of their original lumens during the rest of their life.

Many lcd projectors and very few dlp projectors have vertical and horizontal lens shift. Projectors also have digital keystone correction for non-central mounting. But for best picture quality it is generally advisable to not use much or any lens shift and no digital keystone correction. So the projector should be mounted (left/right) in line with the middle of the screen and mounted up/down according to the projectors lens offset.

Distance devided by throw ratio equals image width (not diagonal). For example with a 8ft width image and a projector with a throw ratio of 1.5. The projector lens needs to be 8ft x 1.5 = 12ft distance from the screen. Projectors quote a range for throw ratio as they have some lens zoom. Typically arround 1.2x. If you project the smallest image at the distance you get higher contrast but lower lumens, if you project the largest image at the distance you get lower contrast but higher lumens. If you set the zoom lens to the middle for the middle sized image you may get a slightly sharper - more infocus image, depending on lens quality. Since image brightness = projector lumens devided by image surface area in square feet, the differences in image size more than offsets the differences in lumens, so the larger image will be less bright because it is larger and the smaller image will be brighter because it is smaller.

To calculate image offset you multiply the images height by the offset. For example with a 54" tall image and a offset of 125%. With the projector on top of a table top the center of the projector lens would be 25% of the image height below the start of the bottom of the image, so 13.5" below the bottom of the 54" tall image. With the projector on the ceiling (upside down) the center of the projector lens would be 25% of the image height above the start of the top of the image, so 13.5" above the top of the 54" tall image.

For the screen you can use a white matt painted wall, I use dulux light and space absolute white rich matt with lumitec technology for added brightness, but I have a very big screen in a batcave, a diy low gain grey paint mix may suit you better, some websites list paint mixes for diy screens. You could get a low gain commercial screen. My only reservation about commercial screens, is they are fabric and at your probably very short viewing distance ( viewing distance of 1.5 x image height is the average for projectors) you may be able to see the texture of the fabric, so I would recommend getting samples to see how smooth they are if you go that route.
 
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Anonymous

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Hi Clare

I have seen the HD350 going for £2.5k on line. Will you consider this projector when doing the £2k group test including the PT4000 (which is set to retail at £2.4k)

What would you buy if it was your money??

Many thanks
 

Clare Newsome

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We'll be considering anything around that price point; and i'll reserve judgement on which i'd buy until i've seen the test.

But if I had to buy now, i'd (somehow
emotion-7.gif
) find the money for the JVC 'HD350 - an absolutely rip-snortingly superb projector for the money, and a massive step up in performance from the £2k level.
 

matengawhat

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beachBOYken you could spend considerably less on your first projector and be blown away - 720p for £600 and 1080p from £900 - the increase in size over tv and the quality of the images from these projectors is breath taking

also lens shift isn't a major problem for effecting picture quality imho but the less the better - however avoid keystone correction at all costs if possible as it really squeezes the imagine removing detail
 

kinda

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Hello matengawhat.

I'm really interested in what you're saying there about the quality of 720/1080P projectors at £600/900. Do you have experience of any particular projectors?

I'm also interested in what you mean about being blown away by the quality. Are we talking in the region of the best LCDs / plasmas / CRTs? Do you think at that price there are any particular weak points in the images?

I'm looking at maybe a plasam / lcd (for TV) plus projector (for films mainly) but I'm not sure what price range to demo in and any information would be much appreciated.
 

kinda

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Also knightout, from what you've said about realistic luminance (with power saving on, deterioration, and your other factors) a 1712 lumens projector on a 60" screen would give a 40ftL brightness, which is about the same as the brightness as some of the brightest plasmas / lcds, and presumably fine for daytime use.

Have I understood this correctly?

If so, ignoring bulb cost, it would seem that getting a projector for all round use as a display might definitely be a viable option.
 

matengawhat

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well the two budget ones I have owned Optoma hd65 and Optoma hd20 for the money i can't fault either - yes if you pay more you get more but as a first projector the HD65 blew me away because of the size, colour and detailed image it produces, i also owned a panasonic 200e which had more features but not worth the extra to me.

The hd20 i'm impressed with but the jump from 40" tv to hd65 84" 720p was far biger than the jump form hd65 84" 720p to hd20 106" 1080p to me was less as the size of the image is the first thing you notice.

pictures when using a high def source whether sky hd 1080i of ps3/xbox 720p or blu ray 1080p the levels of detail are amazing - sd tv upscaled to 1080p is sharp enough but images are def a little soft although no where near as good as sky hd stuff.

just be careful if you suffer from the rainbow effect that the cheaper dlp projectors can suffer from - if i look for them i can see them but if enjoying a film they go unnoticed

in the better/pricier projectors in my opinion what you are paying for are better black levels/less fan noise/better motion and more features in terms of positioning but if you are handy at diy and have some patience there is not need for lens shift as you can easily get everything square to the screen

I personaaly prefer to watch the projector than the normal tv as think its easier on the eyes

I will never spend a fortune on a big tv again - 40" 1080p tv is all you need then buy a projector for the rest
 

matengawhat

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the bulb debate always make me laugh most have between 2000 and 4000 hours - I prob use my projector for about 15 hours a week so if taking the middle figure 3000 would take me 3.5years - i have changed my tv more often than that.

if you have a light on in the room you def lose brightness and colour from images - blacks really suffer - i can watch mine with all curtains closed and some ambient light without to much difficulty and can always step up brightness a little if need extra

also don't worry to much about the top brightness figures as you will never be running it on full and a lot of companies brag about it - contrast ratio more important - best thing to say go have a look at a couple but ask to see the buget one first and see how you feel about the quality - personally I think you will be blown away.
 

kinda

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Thanks a lot for the advice.

This is sounding like a goer. I'm definitely going to audition the HD20 and see what I think. If it looks good, and there are no big improvements by spending a bit more I reckon I'll go for a projector at that kind of price.

My original plan was to get a slim TV first, (that was looking like around £700 for a decent 40 - 42"), and then get a fairly expensive projector later, but if the HD20 seems OK, I'll get that and see how I get on, then maybe replace my CRT TV later.

I'm quite excited!
 
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Anonymous

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kinda:

Also knightout, from what you've said about realistic luminance (with power saving on, deterioration, and your other factors) a 1712 lumens projector on a 60" screen would give a 40ftL brightness, which is about the same as the brightness as some of the brightest plasmas / lcds, and presumably fine for daytime use.

Have I understood this correctly?

40ftL in my opinion is too bright for a single chip dlp, I would expect most people to see dlp rainbows at that brightness. The speed at which your eyes/brain process an image is determined by how bright that image is, if you process it faster than the colorwheel refereshes you see rainbows. Your eyes naturally track bright objects, so scenes with bright moving objects are the most likely to cause rainbow effect, as your eyes move they miss color refreshes. A worse case image is the THX optomizer geometry test pattern white line circle on a black background as your eyes move tracing the edge of the circle.

With single chip dlp 24ftL is about as bright as I would go with some ambient lighting, but these things are designed for a reference white level of 12-16ftL.

If you want to project a very bright image than I would go with a LCD or LCOS projector as these do not suffer rainbow effect.
 

kinda

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Thanks again for the advice.

I'll definitely make sure I run the geometry test as part of the demo to see if I can detect the rainbow. I might have to look at non-dlp projectors if it's an issue for me, but currently I'm intending to have another TV for "standard" viewing I think.
 

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