Problem with soundstaging, think I need room treatment

[shafesk]

Dear forumers,

I need some advice regarding soundstaging. I get great soundstaging from my left speaker, it virtually disappears, it is the right that is the problem. I just can't get it to disappear and it creates a confusing center image that refuses to lock in. I've adjusted the speaker placement atleast 100 times now (really). No matter what I try I end up with a confusing center image and sometimes I'm very aware that there is a speaker on the right side which really shouldn't be the case as it doesn't happen with the left speaker. I've tried all the usual trouble shooting (swapped speakers, changed wires) and I'm quite sure its an acoustic problem. I think I need absorption panels but I'm only able to put it on the wall the speakers are on. Can anyone tell me where I should put them and how I can build some on my own?

Greatly appreciate the help,

Shafin.

 

[BenLaw]

You can't have 'great soundstaging from the left speaker', a soundstage is all about the stereo image.

 

[CnoEvil]

This sort of thing is so trial and error, you won't know what will/might work, until you stumble across it.

Maybe the place to start is to get your room acoustically measured....which might point you in the right direction. Companies like Advanced Acoustics, specialize in this.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Suggest searching here. I have found great auccess for little money. I guess, like mine, yr room is asymetric tho with tweaking soundstage seems ok

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Suggest searching here. I have found great auccess for little money. I guess, like mine, yr room is asymetric tho with tweaking soundstage seems ok

 

[shafesk]

This sort of thing is so trial and error, you won't know what will/might work, until you stumble across it.

Maybe the place to start is to get your room acoustically measured....which might point you in the right direction. Companies like Advanced Acoustics, specialize in this.

I think having it professionally analysed is a great idea, after all the money I will spend on acoustic treatment is going to last me longer than any hi-fi. I looked up advanced acoustics I think I need to find a similar company in Bangladesh.

 

[shafesk]

You can't have 'great soundstaging from the left speaker', a soundstage is all about the stereo image.

Ben, helpful as always.....

 

[shafesk]

Suggest searching here. I have found great auccess for little money. I guess, like mine, yr room is asymetric tho with tweaking soundstage seems ok

Hi Robin, I'm afraid your link's gone missing. I've been looking at your acoustic panels and your system, we both have speakers from the same range and the same problem where the speakers are forced into the corners. Although Mezzos are better with corners than other speakers I've tried the soundstaging does suffer. I'm curious about your acoustic panels as they are on the ground rather than the wall and also appear to be half the height of the speakers. Is there a specific reason you went for them? Have you tried the ones that hang on the wall? Can you also tell me what kind of problems you faced that led you to pursue the acoustic treatment route and do you feel you have solved them?

Regards,

Shafin

 

[BenLaw]

You can't have 'great soundstaging from the left speaker', a soundstage is all about the stereo image.

Ben, helpful as always.....

Thanks. What I'm trying to say is, you have to understand your problem before you can try and understand the solution and it seems to me you don't understand your problem.

However, if you can only put acoustic treatment on the back wall then the general advice would be bass traps in the corners and broad band absorption behind the speakers.

 

[BenLaw]

You can't have 'great soundstaging from the left speaker', a soundstage is all about the stereo image.

Ben, helpful as always.....

Thanks. What I'm trying to say is, you have to understand your problem before you can try and understand the solution and it seems to me you don't understand your problem.

However, if you can only put acoustic treatment on the back wall then the general advice would be bass traps in the corners and broad band absorption behind the speakers.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Hi Shafin

I am a great fan of bass traps. Admitted. In a small room I believe room interaction is as important as any kit. In a lounge environment most wish not to have lumps of foam and wooly panels on walls so compromise is vital. I felt that music was muddled. Complex music in particular lacked good separation and sounded confuswd. There was a huge bass reinforcement in the far end of the room which mattered little but wasn't right. In our two sweet spots, seats with leg rests! I set up to get good sound on rhs but the other side lacked bass. This led to experimenting with rockwool which improved matters considerably. The corner traps cover the bottom corners which are usually the first issue and in another life I may have made them taller. I setled for units which were tucked away. Were this a home cinema room and not a lounge I would have gone much further but I recon for a small outlay and without loosing the attraction of the lounge, I have improved the sound and bass issues very considerably. I have said here before that its worth sourcing some rockwool for £20 and throwing it into corners or walls to see how it benefits. When you find a balance between what is best and what is going to look ok in your room then decide to diy or buy panels or traps.

Hope this helps and good luck

 

[Inter_Voice]

@shafest: If you want to check your room acoustic condition try using this freeware which is quite simple to use:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

I have done some acoustic treatment to my room after checking it with REW and you may see the small photo on the left. The ceiling and the backwall are covered with acoustic foam

and the corners are with bass traps. The result is really GOOD and it now sounds like listening music inside a studio.

 

[shafesk]

You can't have 'great soundstaging from the left speaker', a soundstage is all about the stereo image.

Ben, helpful as always.....

Thanks. What I'm trying to say is, you have to understand your problem before you can try and understand the solution and it seems to me you don't understand your problem.

However, if you can only put acoustic treatment on the back wall then the general advice would be bass traps in the corners and broad band absorption behind the speakers.

Thanks for your reply, I guess my english has let me down. I meant that the imaging I'm getting from both isn't coherent and my aim is to get the right speaker to sound as good as the left so that I get a proper stereo image, right now its very confusing where the instruments are. I guess bass traps and acoustic panels are the general consensus. Thanks, Shafin

 

[Native_bon]

Hey i know a bit about room acoustics. The general rule is to have acoustics panels at the back of the speakers & by the side walls at ear level. Also a bit of experimenting. Also sometimes the balance your trying to achieve in a home enviroment can be difficult due to funiture & room acoustics.

Right now i use movable acoustic panels on very light wood. The thin woods which the actually panels stand on are the same colour as my room,so hardly noticable. No sure if this helps.

All the best.

 

[Native_bon]

Hey i know a bit about room acoustics. The general rule is to have acoustics panels at the back of the speakers & by the side walls at ear level. Also a bit of experimenting. Also sometimes the balance your trying to achieve in a home enviroment can be difficult due to funiture & room acoustics.

Right now i use movable acoustic panels on very light wood. The thin woods which the actual panels stand on are the same colour as my room,so hardly noticable. No sure if this helps.

All the best.

 

[Overdose]

I meant that the imaging I'm getting from both isn't coherent and my aim is to get the right speaker to sound as good as the left so that I get a proper stereo image, right now its very confusing where the instruments are.

The soundstage is primarily generated in the mix when mastered. If it's all over the place or vague when mastered, then no amount of acoustic treatment or any other tinkering will create it. Be sure that your recordings actually have a coherent 'soundstage' in the first place. People seem to forget or are largely ignorant of the fact that the most important part of any system is the recording and no amount of high end equipment will fix that if it's not very good in the first place.

Maybe try the recording when listening on some headphones first.

 

[Native_bon]

I meant that the imaging I'm getting from both isn't coherent and my aim is to get the right speaker to sound as good as the left so that I get a proper stereo image, right now its very confusing where the instruments are.

The soundstage is primarily generated in the mix when mastered. If it's all over the place or vague when mastered, then no amount of acoustic treatment or any other tinkering will create it. Be sure that your recordings actually have a coherent 'soundstage' in the first place. People seem to forget or are largely ignorant of the fact that the most important part of any system is the recording and no amount of high end equipment will fix that if it's not very good in the first place.

Maybe try the recording when listening on some headphones first.

Very good advice. Most people do not realize how much bad recordings are out there. But if the problem is prominent on all tracks or Albums then it could well be the room.

 

[shafesk]

You can't have 'great soundstaging from the left speaker', a soundstage is all about the stereo image.

Ben, helpful as always.....

Thanks. What I'm trying to say is, you have to understand your problem before you can try and understand the solution and it seems to me you don't understand your problem.

However, if you can only put acoustic treatment on the back wall then the general advice would be bass traps in the corners and broad band absorption behind the speakers.

thank you for the advice, that does seem to be the general consensus

 

[shafesk]

Hi Shafin

I am a great fan of bass traps. Admitted. In a small room I believe room interaction is as important as any kit. In a lounge environment most wish not to have lumps of foam and wooly panels on walls so compromise is vital. I felt that music was muddled. Complex music in particular lacked good separation and sounded confuswd. There was a huge bass reinforcement in the far end of the room which mattered little but wasn't right. In our two sweet spots, seats with leg rests! I set up to get good sound on rhs but the other side lacked bass. This led to experimenting with rockwool which improved matters considerably. The corner traps cover the bottom corners which are usually the first issue and in another life I may have made them taller. I setled for units which were tucked away. Were this a home cinema room and not a lounge I would have gone much further but I recon for a small outlay and without loosing the attraction of the lounge, I have improved the sound and bass issues very considerably. I have said here before that its worth sourcing some rockwool for £20 and throwing it into corners or walls to see how it benefits. When you find a balance between what is best and what is going to look ok in your room then decide to diy or buy panels or traps.

Hope this helps and good luck

It does help, thank you very much

 

[shafesk]

Hey i know a bit about room acoustics. The general rule is to have acoustics panels at the back of the speakers & by the side walls at ear level. Also a bit of experimenting. Also sometimes the balance your trying to achieve in a home enviroment can be difficult due to funiture & room acoustics.

Right now i use movable acoustic panels on very light wood. The thin woods which the actual panels stand on are the same colour as my room,so hardly noticable. No sure if this helps.

All the best.

Thank you my friend,

Regards,

Shafin

 

[shafesk]

I meant that the imaging I'm getting from both isn't coherent and my aim is to get the right speaker to sound as good as the left so that I get a proper stereo image, right now its very confusing where the instruments are.

The soundstage is primarily generated in the mix when mastered. If it's all over the place or vague when mastered, then no amount of acoustic treatment or any other tinkering will create it. Be sure that your recordings actually have a coherent 'soundstage' in the first place. People seem to forget or are largely ignorant of the fact that the most important part of any system is the recording and no amount of high end equipment will fix that if it's not very good in the first place.

Maybe try the recording when listening on some headphones first.

Thank you Overdose, I do realise that soundstage varies from recording to recording and some don't have it at all.....but Pearl Jam in concert, Buble in Vegas or Pink Floyd Momentary Lapse in Judgement are the kinda thing which have a detailed soundstage and its what I generally use as a measure of soundstage.

 

[shafesk]

Well it seems that my approach will be to have a go at getting the panels built myself, I'll be building 2 first and depending on how good they look maybe get some extra made later on. I didn't have much luck with finding a professional in Bangladesh so I guess I'm on my own. I will post some pictures of them on my long overdue system thread and you can also see the slabs I'm getting made.

Thank you all,

Shafin.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Hey native bon? I see no ships.

Sorry - pics not ships

 

[shafesk]

Hey native bon? I see no ships.

Sorry - pics not ships

think that ship has sailed

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I first started thinking about making corner traps using a triangular frame with rockwool layered behind. An isoscelese triangle with sides the height of the speaker and a base around 1m. I thought the asymetry may make a decent absorber and it would look modern and neat. Lots of ideas but for me curtains limited my options so I ended up with prism boxes. I may experiment again for fun when it's a bit warmer in my workshop/garage. Good luck.