PMC Twenty5 22 and stands

radiorog

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Hi!

I am going to be auditioning th PMC twenty5 22's in the newy year, alongside ATC scm19's (which I have already heard). Read very good things about the PMC's, the only negative from WHF seemed to be regarding the treble can get unruly with wrong partnering, something I think is impossible with the ATC's. Also I have heard that the PMC's must be used with their own stands (£300ish). Is this true? Must I be factoring in money to buy expensive stands as well?

I've also heard that the twenty5 22's are not as accurate as the twenty5 23's. Apparently the 22's are a bit bass heavy and the seperation isnt as good (although still excellent). Anybody know if this is correct?

I'll get to hear for myself in due course, just after tips and things that I should be looking out for.

Thanks :)
 

jaxwired

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First of all, the idea that you must use PMC stands is ridiculous. Any well made stand is fine. The important thing to get great sound from a stand mount speaker is proximity to walls. Best to experiment with placement but typically some good free space around them is best. Not sure about 22s accuracy compared to 23s but I know I like the 23s better. I like the 21 and 23 better than the 22 and 24. Just my preference, I'd buy 23s before 22s. I like the bass signature of the 23s better and I think the 5" drivers lend to a cleaner more articulate delivery. The 23s also take up less space which is typically a plus. Now the atc scm 19 is a tremendous speaker. I've owned them and loved them. Again it comes down to simple preference as both the PMCs and the ATC 19s are superb speakers that are highly accurate with amazing clarity. The ATCs IMO are more accurate and allow for surgical insights into the most subtle elements of every recording. But if I had to pick for a desert island there is no contest, PMC all day long. PMC is so natural and so organic. They have a fast open sound that is full of energy and excitement but somehow it's done in a way that sounds real and natural. But I wouldn't argue with someone that preferred the 19s for a minute. I can totally understand the appeal of those as well. They are all about nuance and precision. They are amazing speakers, just slightly less entertaining. They capture and hold attention like a laser but the PMCs are the ones I want to hear all night with a bottle of wine. Good luck. Let us know how your demo goes.
 

radiorog

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jaxwired said:
First of all, the idea that you must use PMC stands is ridiculous. Any well made stand is fine. The important thing to get great sound from a stand mount speaker is proximity to walls. Best to experiment with placement but typically some good free space around them is best. Not sure about 22s accuracy compared to 23s but I know I like the 23s better. I like the 21 and 23 better than the 22 and 24. Just my preference, I'd buy 23s before 22s. I like the bass signature of the 23s better and I think the 5" drivers lend to a cleaner more articulate delivery. The 23s also take up less space which is typically a plus. Now the atc scm 19 is a tremendous speaker. I've owned them and loved them. Again it comes down to simple preference as both the PMCs and the ATC 19s are superb speakers that are highly accurate with amazing clarity. The ATCs IMO are more accurate and allow for surgical insights into the most subtle elements of every recording. But if I had to pick for a desert island there is no contest, PMC all day long. PMC is so natural and so organic. They have a fast open sound that is full of energy and excitement but somehow it's done in a way that sounds real and natural. But I wouldn't argue with someone that preferred the 19s for a minute. I can totally understand the appeal of those as well. They are all about nuance and precision. They are amazing speakers, just slightly less entertaining. They capture and hold attention like a laser but the PMCs are the ones I want to hear all night with a bottle of wine. Good luck. Let us know how your demo goes.

Thanks jaxwired, brilliant insight there, much appreciated. :)
 

drummerman

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radiorog said:
jaxwired said:
First of all, the idea that you must use PMC stands is ridiculous.  Any well made stand is fine.  The important thing to get great sound from a stand mount speaker is proximity to walls.   Best to experiment with placement but typically some good free space around them is best.   Not sure about 22s accuracy compared to 23s but I know I like the 23s better.  I like the 21 and 23 better than the 22 and 24.  Just my preference, I'd buy 23s before 22s.  I like the bass signature of the 23s better and I think the 5" drivers lend to a cleaner more articulate delivery.   The 23s also take up less space which is typically a plus. Now the atc scm 19 is a tremendous speaker. I've owned them and loved them. Again it comes down to simple preference as both the PMCs and the ATC 19s are superb speakers that are highly accurate with amazing clarity.  The ATCs IMO are more accurate and allow for surgical insights into the most subtle elements of every recording.   But if I had to pick for a desert island there is no contest, PMC all day long.   PMC is so natural and so organic.   They have a fast open sound that is full of energy and excitement but somehow it's done in a way that sounds real and natural.  But I wouldn't argue with someone that preferred the 19s for a minute.  I can totally understand the appeal of those as well.  They are all about nuance and precision.  They are amazing speakers, just slightly less entertaining.  They capture and hold attention like a laser but the PMCs are the ones I want to hear all night with a bottle of wine.  Good luck.  Let us know how your demo goes.  

 Thanks jaxwired, brilliant insight there, much appreciated. :)

+1
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

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radiorog said:
Hi!

I am going to be auditioning th PMC twenty5 22's in the newy year, alongside ATC scm19's (which I have already heard). Read very good things about the PMC's, the only negative from WHF seemed to be regarding the treble can get unruly with wrong partnering, something I think is impossible with the ATC's. Also I have heard that the PMC's must be used with their own stands (£300ish). Is this true? Must I be factoring in money to buy expensive stands as well?

I've also heard that the twenty5 22's are not as accurate as the twenty5 23's. Apparently the 22's are a bit bass heavy and the seperation isnt as good (although still excellent). Anybody know if this is correct?

I'll get to hear for myself in due course, just after tips and things that I should be looking out for.

Thanks :)

I don’t think pmcs need to be used with their own stands radiorog but this said the pmc stands are sloped to match the trapezoid cabinet shape of the twenty5 range. I think pmc have used the same stands for the twenty range to the twenty5 ones so conceivably you could get a used pair second hand, with nothing obviously to go wrong. So if I was you I’d definetely get the stands if going for standmounts as they really set them off, have the logos etc.

Id hazard a geuss what hi Fi’s view of treble of the twenty5 range is just their preference thing. I say this as I use my 25-23s wth cyrus signature gear, which traditionally has a reputation of detailed etc and decent (but not excessive) treble, but with the smoother nature of all pmcs it’s a good match at least for me, and that’s all that matters.

Id tend to agree with you on accuracy of 25-23 versus 25-22. The way Id put it owning my speakers, and listening to other speakers in the twenty5 range at shows is that the 25-22 are a bit more boxy sounding with good power and I agree bass heavier, whereas the 25-23s reveal a bit more smooth and articulate bass and have a bit more detail. I reckon this is to do with the longer transmission line of the speakers and effect it has on reducing distortion. The 25-23 just seem more balanced to me.

I had the twenty 23 before I swapped to 25-23 and bass response, detail and midrange has come on in leaps and spades. The speakers do have hiked up higher frequencies to the twenty range which is smoother and less detailed, but get the amp or amps right and the twenty5 speakers sound terrific. They are a bit more up there in higher frequencies to the fact range which have a smoother sound like the twenty range but better. I rate the twenty5 24 being a more powerful sounding version of the 25-23,and the 25-26 is awesome in its 3 way design. But the ones I’ve not liked so much comparatively in the range are the small bookshelf speakers in the 21 and 22.

One thing to check out is the soundstage of the 25-22 versus the 25-23 as I suspect the 25-22 with the bigger drivers will be better, but against all the other factors

atc are great too and judging from what I’ve heard of all atc speakers I don’t think the atc acm19 are as detailed and dynamic as the 25-23, more a relaxed presentation, but for you it may come down to a preference of the sound signature, but whatever either atc or pmc are fantastic.

if you are near me you are welcome to pop around mine (Sussex) to hear mine. One thing to bear in mine too is that pmc eat amPs. I’d recommend at least the same value in amps to speakers as there is no end to what you can get out of twenty5 range speakers, it seems.
 

Green Bow

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Have you or would you consider a different speaker?

The What Hi-Fi review of the £2,500 Dynaudio Specail Forty is best standmount £2500+. ... It's the only review so far as it's a new speaker. However it's got to be on your list.

I recently bought the Dynuadio Emit M10, and they knock my head clean off. I know that the Kef Q350 have just outed the Emit M10, and M20 from best in class. (With What Hi-Fi I mean.) However I would not swap the What HiFi recommended Emit M10 low level listening quality. Not for KEF's 'not so good at low volumes'. Not ever, as I use them on a desktop.

The Emit M10 are smaller than the Special Forty. The M10's though don't even sound like a small speaker, or a speaker with small drivers. They just sound like clean and clear speakers. What Hi-Fi keep saying on their Dynaudio reviews that Dynaudio speakers sound like much bigger speakers than they are. Or to quote the Special Forty review,

"They sound far bigger and more authoritative than a speaker that stands 36cm high has any right to".
Read more at https://www.whathifi.com/dynaudio/special-forty/review#WKf7FULHBiRF11pu.99
 

Green Bow

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Last night was dreaming about the PCM twenty5: 22. Not sure if I bought them or if I was with someone buyng them. Just can't remember.

Yeah funny joke about the Emit M10 knocking my head clean off. I really could not think if another analogy, to express how vividly good they seem. They are just about outstanding compared to the Q Acoustics BT3 that I was using before. I have a better amplifier now too though. Plus I upgraded my DAC from the Chord Mojo.

The Emit M10s just seem to sound right in every way. I have strong hopes for the Dynaudio Special 40. I read carefully the What Hi-Fi review. They say the Special 40 sound very balanced, but the ATC SMC19 sound a bit more neutral. Maybe they are implying that the Specail 40 are slightly coloured, but still tonally balanced.
Quote, "There are more neutral alternatives – ATC’s mighty SCM19s come to mind – but the Special Fortys are even, cohesive and nicely balanced."
Read more at https://www.whathifi.com/dynaudio/special-forty/review#hotji3pjoXjudxzF.99
 

radiorog

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Oops, just seen that once again I've been neglecting my posts. Thanks everyone for the really useful insights. Thanks for the offer to check out your speakers quest.

Yeah, I'd like to hear the dyns too

:)
 

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