PMC PB1i Signature vs PMC Fact 8

[Gazzip]

Any thoughts?

Given the choice, and bearing in mind that I am not changing my amplification, which would you go for in a room measuring 5.5m x 4.5m x 2.8m (high)?

Music taste is modern eclectic from Adele through to Prodigy.

Listening levels moderate most of the time.

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[gregvet]

They are very different in presentation, depsite both being PMC, if that makes sense. Have you heard them both?

I havent hear the Facts specifically with Bryston amplification, but I would go Fact personally.

I love them

If it was me I would go for less neutral amplification tho, but Im sure they will sound great with Bryston.

As an aside I suspect that room may be a little smaller than ideal with the PB1i's. Probably fine if its just a listening room, but if its multipurpose could be interesintg. YMMV.

 

[Gazzip]

Thanks gregvet. I haven't heard either yet but my dealer is happy to let me have both for an extended home trial. I am also a little worried about room compatibility with the PB1i's having read that they need "a couple of feet behind them". That ain't happening!

I have been through all of the Kef R's and loved the dynamism and imaging that the R300's gave me. I moved up the R range to get some more low end in to the mix but that has come at the expense of the stereo imaging. Really hoping that one of these models will give me that back.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, does your choice have to be this narrow?

 

[gregvet]

I cant compare directly to the Kef's (although from what I have heard, they are great speakers), as I havent heard them in the same system.

My feeling is that the Fact 8's will give better stereo imaging, better detail, more air, and better driver integration. The PB1i's will go lower, and have much more bass. I suspect they will go significantly louder too. The PB1i's will likely be closer to the R900's in terms of balance, although they will be a class or two above.

There may be issues with the PB1i's bass if you dont give them at least 18 inches space, IMO.

 

[iceman16]

Are you sure.?

 

[Helmut80]

What Iceman said. At that price point there are so many alternatives worth listening to if you have the time and patience.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Both of the PMC models mentioned will deliver significant gains over the KEF's. Is it the PB1 sigs that you are looking at and not the PB1's? The Signature verisons are all finished as far as I am aware. The speakers are different in presentation although share a common voice and I like both of them a great deal. The PB1 Sigs would be my choice of the two - the FACTs are great but the weight to the sound in the PBs is lovely.

 

[Ketan Bharadia]

In my experience the Fact 8s will give a faster, leaner sound while the PB1is will deliver more bass weight and overall scale. They're both great speakers. If you have the chance to try them at home I'm sure it'll be easy to figure out which one is best.

 

[drummerman]

Thanks gregvet. I haven't heard either yet but my dealer is happy to let me have both for an extended home trial. I am also a little worried about room compatibility with the PB1i's having read that they need "a couple of feet behind them". That ain't happening!

I have been through all of the Kef R's and loved the dynamism and imaging that the R300's gave me. I moved up the R range to get some more low end in to the mix but that has come at the expense of the stereo imaging. Really hoping that one of these models will give me that back.

Add a sub ...

regards

 

[Electro]

Both the PB1i's and the Fact 8's are superb speakers but have a quite different balance of strengths .

I have owned the original PB1i's for over two years and I am still constantly amazed by just how incredible they are .

They go very deep in the bass and I mean VERY deep , I fully believe the spec's when they say they go down to 24 Hz but It is not that one note thump that you get from most other speakers or subs but instead they give a slightly softer textured detailed natural bass that is so realistic .

Bass instruments are easy to separate and identify and each instrument has it's own identifying character , this acts as a platform for the mid range which is very strong and detailed and maybe a touch forward but never harsh .

The top end is detailed and equally balanced with the rest of the sound but beware of putting the speaker too close to any hard surfaces such as a side wall because the wide dispersion design of the tweeter can cause the wall to act as a reflector .

The dynamics the Pb1i can reproduce are nothing short of astonishing even at relatively low levels but when the wick is turned up it sound pretty close to live music with the right recording and source

I have heard the Fact 8's and their balance is quite different , they are much much lighter and a little tighter in the bass region but with the right recording the soundstage and detail is amazing , they can't deliver anywhere near the power and weight that the PB1i can but they make up for this with delicacy and ultra detail , I can see why so many people love them .

As always the only way to see which one suits you and you room is to try them at home but either way you can't go far wrong , I am surprised that you have not included the OB1i for audition . The OB1i would be ideal if the PB1i overpowers your room .

 

[Gazzip]

PB1i Sigs on the way for home testing.

We shall see..... Fingers crossed!

 

[Electro]

PB1i Sigs on the way for home testing.

We shall see..... Fingers crossed!

Excellent I am looking forward to your review . :type:

 

[gregvet]

Exciting. How long are you allowed them for, and will you have the facts at the same time for direct comparison, or will they come after?

looking forward to hearing your findings.

 

[Gazzip]

I have them until Monday. Facts to follow..... if I need them.....

 

[Paul@HiFi-Lounge]

Hi Gazzip,

I'll be really interested in how you get on, being a big Bryston/PMC fan myself it took me a long time to get to grips with the Fact8's so give yourself plenty of time to accumalate to them, for me now though, other than the professional range, the Fact 8's are the best speaker in the PMC range at the moment.

I never used to think that though as I was so used to the i series sound, which is more laid back and richer, I initially found Facts to be a little lean and too detailed, but after spending so much time listening to the twenty range, which are voiced quite similar, I revisited the Facts and wondered what my problem was in the past.

Now I love that detail, when going back to the i series now I really miss that top end clarity and insight, plus thanks to the smallish drivers you get a really fast, tight and punchy bass, they are an extremely fast speaker.

They were once described to me as a passive speaker that give you a real taste of an active sound, which is spot on.

Saying that the PB's are brilliant speakers, the great thing being that the PB's and Facts are so different in their presentations you have a real choice, either way paired with Bryston you can't go wrong.

Keep us posted

 

[gregvet]

I have them until Monday. Facts to follow..... if I need them.....

As good as I am sure the PB1i's are, (and i hope you are loving them), you owe it to yourself to try the Facts at home too before you make up your mind. Otherwise you will always have that nagging doubt in your mind

 

[Gazzip]

Had the PB1i Signatures for a couple of days so far. Unfortunately work has kicked off so I haven't been able to treat myself to a full day with them yet, but so far they are the most revealing speakers I have ever heard. Honestly, clichéd as this may sound, they are uncovering new stuff from EVERY piece of music that I own. Breaths where there weren't any before, plectrum plucks, new instruments etc. The soundstage is extraordinary with instruments all easily discernible in their own space. The bass is beautifully balanced and can go very, very deep. My only critisms are that they absolutely massacre badly recorded music, and I do mean massacre it, and that sometimes they sound a bit too polite in comparison to my Kefs. I guess this is because they are giving an absolutely accurate representation of the recordings. My problem is that IMHO sometimes things are better being partially disguised than stripped bare. I'm not sure that I want to render a proportion of my music redundant for the sake of the better half, but what a better half it is with these speakers! A dilemma indeed!

 

[Gazzip]

 

[CnoEvil]

At the sort of money you are looking to spend, have you tried:

Proac D40R
Kef Reference 205/2
Spendor ST

 

[Electro]

Had the PB1i Signatures for a couple of days so far. Unfortunately work has kicked off so I haven't been able to treat myself to a full day with them yet, but so far they are the most revealing speakers I have ever heard. Honestly, clichéd as this may sound, they are uncovering new stuff from EVERY piece of music that I own. Breaths where there weren't any before, plectrum plucks, new instruments etc. The soundstage is extraordinary with instruments all easily discernible in their own space. The bass is beautifully balanced and can go very, very deep. My only critisms are that they absolutely massacre badly recorded music, and I do mean massacre it, and that sometimes they sound a bit too polite in comparison to my Kefs. I guess this is because they are giving an absolutely accurate representation of the recordings. My problem is that IMHO sometimes things are better being partially disguised than stripped bare. I'm not sure that I want to render a proportion of my music redundant for the sake of the better half, but what a better half it is with these speakers! A dilemma indeed!

You know when you have been PMC'ed

An excellent review. You have now experienced just how realistic a HiFi system can sound

The biggest problem that you now have is that you have heard just how fantastic well recorded music can sound through the PB1i's and it is now stuck in your memory forever and there is no going back :O

If you make a compromise using a lesser speaker so that your poor Quality recordings sound a little better you will miss out on that fantastic rush of pleasure that you have just experienced with good recordings , can you live without that now ?

To be honest I think if you listen again to your lesser quality recordings they can be just as enjoyable as before as you can truly appreciate the musical content , but the good quality recording sound so much better than before there is a greater contrast between the two, it is something that you get used to with time .

You will probably find that some of the recording that you thought were pretty average before will sound a lot better when you play them through the PB1i 's , when I first got my PB1i's it was like a voyage of surprising discoveries .

I really hope you enjoy yourself and I am sure you have already experienced just how astonishing good the PB1i's are

I am going to post a youtube video of the PB1i sigs in action for those who have not seen a pair and especially for CNO , check out those amps :O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=z2vZrBeamfU&feature=endscreen

Sorry CNO I have been looking for an excuse to post this video for ages

 

[CnoEvil]

I am going to post a youtube video of the PB1i sigs in action for those who have not seen a pair and especially for CNO , check out those amps :O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=z2vZrBeamfU&feature=endscreen

Sorry CNO I have been looking for an excuse to post this video for ages

What a wonderful system, though you know of course that it's the AMS stuff making the speakers sound good!!

To be serious for a minute, I have always thought the PB1s were serious competition to my beloved 205/2s, but they were not stocked, so could not do a direct comparison. They are both reference level monitors that, in the right system, look right into the heart of a recording.

Pairing either of with a powerful Class A (or very carefully chosen AB) amp minimizes the effect of bad recordings - not because the amps colour the sound, but imo, because (in the case of Class A) remove crossover distortion.

Did you see my "Evening with Touraj Moghaddam" thread, where I listened to, and photographed a full Electro system. It was unlike you not to make a comment, if you'd noticed it?

Have you ever heard Kef Refs (sorry if I've asked this before, as it's hard to keep track)?

 

[Electro]

"What a wonderful system, though you know of course that it's the AMS stuff making the speakers sound good!!

"

:rofl:


Yes I read your "Evening with Touraj Moghaddam" thread and it was very interesting I was going to make a comment but got side tracked , I will re visit it for another look

I have not heard any of the latest versions of the KEF reference series but have heard a few of the older models but I can't remember specific model numbers .

Is it just me or do you find the different model numbers of the reference series present and past really confusing :?

I have heard an older version of a Kef Reference floorstanding speaker ( I can't remember the model number but they looked quite different to yours ) at the UK Electrocompaniet service centre in London with the same CDP and preamp as mine and a pair of Nemo monoblocks and I was very underwhelmed , quite disappointed actually .

The listening room had only just been finished and was crying out for some acoustic treatment so that may have been the problem as it was very bare and reflective , I made a suggestion that they should try some acoustic treatment because it was not a very good demo for Electrocompaniet or KEF . This was a few years ago so I hope they have sorted out the room acoustics by now !

 

[CnoEvil]

Is it just me or do you find the different model numbers of the reference series present and past really confusing :?

Very!

I have heard an older version of a Kef Reference floorstanding speaker ( I can't remember the model number but they looked quite different to yours ) at the UK Electrocompaniet service centre in London with the same CDP and preamp as mine and a pair of Nemo monoblocks and I was very underwhelmed , quite disappointed actually .

The Kef Refs of old had quite a different sound, with big warm bass that took very good amplification to control it and a darker treble. Also, some of these older models were too ruthlessly revealing of partnering kit for their own good, like 105/3.

I didn't take to the previous incarnation of the present series (with the super-tweeter on top), which were far too bright for my taste. The Mk2 versions were a huge improvement, and not just in the tweeter, but also in the bass drivers (which was reflected in the price hike). I would describe them as having just a hint of forgiveness.

They are cameleon-like in the way they take on the personality of the partnering kit, which for me is perfect for allowing the types of amp I like to truly shine.

Just like PMC, they are a great choice where a both HT and 2 channel duties are required, as they have serious dynamic impact and excitement.

 

[Electro]

Hi Gazzip ,

Have you made any decisions ?

I would be very interested to know more about your audition and general overall impression of the two speakers