PMC OB1i or ATC SCM 40

[gowiththeflow]

I've got the chance of obtaining either the OB1i's or (pre- curved) SCM 40's secondhand v.g.c., from different sellers; but there isn't going to be an opportunity to listen to them at home, or in the right environment before taking the plunge. Effectively I'd be buying blind, so to speak. Both sellers are about 100 miles away, in different directions from here.

Considering the price, it's a big decision to make. Should I take the risk?

I've read quite a number of reviews on both and know them by reputation, but have never heard them myself. So again, I'd be taking a bit of an expensive risk and could possibly fall in that obvious trap of not trying before buying..

I'm not sure if it will help, but I thought I'd try and gauge some thought about the relative merits of these speakers, before deciding what course of action to follow.

I don't think room size is too much of an issue (8m x 4m, carpeted with soft furnishings).

I'll be looking at a new amp, either integrated or power (stereo/monoblocks) fed by a pre + DAC or DAC+ pre. Suggestion welcome. Will the likes of the Naim Nait XS2, Rega Elicit-R etc, be a bit lightweight for these speakers?

Musical taste's inc. Acoustic, Jazz, Soul, Blues, Contemporary Alt & Rock, Classic Rock, Prog and Heavy Rock. Quite a broad spectrum sound wise.

Sources will include Sonos Connect, possibly a new HiRes capable streamer too, for ripped CD's, Spotify etc; as well as a CD player and Vinyl.

Thanks.

 

[BenLaw]

If they're second hand, in good condition and you're not paying over the odds there's no reason why you'd make a loss if you bought one and didn't like it. With that in mind, if you can afford the capital outlay (which presumably you can if you're also going to be buying an amp), why not buy both and sell on the one you like less?

I'd buy the 40s, but then I own them so if I were you I wouldn't listen to me.

 

[Electro]

This excellent review from a person who has tried both might be of some help to you

http://hi-fi-avenue.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/british-sound-with-unbritish-bass.html

 

[gowiththeflow]

This excellent review from a person who has tried both might be of some help to you

http://hi-fi-avenue.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/british-sound-with-unbritish-bass.html

Thanks Electro. I hadn't found that one.

Even the side by side photo is useful, not having clapped eyes on these two "in the flesh" before.

 

[visionary]

I have the SCM40s and broadly similar musical tastes to yours

For the most part I am very pleased with the ATCs. I have a few recordings where I feel the bass is a little wanting but that may be a reflection on the recording rather than the speakers.

I love the way they never sound strained even when I turn the wick right up on , for example "The Wall"

 

[Electro]

This excellent review from a person who has tried both might be of some help to you

http://hi-fi-avenue.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/british-sound-with-unbritish-bass.html

Thanks Electro. I hadn't found that one.

Even the side by side photo is useful, not having clapped eyes on these two "in the flesh" before.

I don't know what part of the world you are from or what your budget is but I have a suggestion for you assuming you are from the UK or in Europe .

For streaming, DAC and amplification I would suggest the Electrocompaniet ECI 6DS .

It is an all in one unit and it is very powerful at 2 x 125 wpc into 8 ohms and has 100 amps of peak current delivery so it will drive either of the speakers you are interested in effortlessly .

It may seem a little expensive compared with other rivals at a lesser price until you consider the quality , power and control the amplifier section offers over and above the others .

http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/integrated/ECI_6DS

And a review .

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/electrocompaniet-eci-6ds-integrated-digital-streaming-amplifier-hi-fi/?utm_campaign=Hi-Fi%2B+Weekly+Emails&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-117

It is worth a look anyway

 

[gowiththeflow]

I don't know what part of the world you are from or what your budget is but I have a suggestion for you assuming you are from the UK or in Europe .

For streaming, DAC and amplification I would suggest the Electrocompaniet ECI 6DS........

......It may seem a little expensive compared with other rivals at a lesser price until you consider the quality , power and control the amplifier section offers over and above the others .

I'm in the UK.

I have been considering Electrocompaniet amps, but the nearest dealer is 80+ miles away and only has a very small number of their products on display, or available for a demo.

The all-in-one ECI 6DS is a bit OTT price wise IMHO, even considering the amp capability. The streamer element should be a relatively simple and inexpensive part of the package and the control interface wil be key. I have a strong suspicion that is where that particular product will fall down and as far as I can tell the price mark-up is simply not worth it.

I would like to try the ECI 5 mk2 though, as I briefly overheard one being demoed to a customer in Dubai earlier this year. The problem is the lack of dealers that I can get to easily.

Another consideration was the Musical Fidelity M6i, which is now being heavily discounted due to it's replacement (the M6si) being released.

I'm still not sure if the Elicit-R or Nait XS2 will be up to the job?

 

[toyota man]

Hi gowiththeflow I have the SCM 40s fantastic speakers goes very well with the M6i and even better with the M6 500i if you live anywere near norwich you are welcome to come and have listen bring some of you cds with you though

 

[gowiththeflow]

Hi gowiththeflow I have the SCM 40s fantastic speakers goes very well with the M6i and even better with the M6 500i if you live anywere near norwich you are welcome to come and have listen bring some of you cds with you though

Thanks for the offer. If I was within range, I'd certainly take you up on that.

The M6 500i is beyond my self imposed budget, but it looks to be a bit of a beast. The M6i and replacement M6si are at the top of my price range; or rather what I'm prepared to pay.

A Q. for anyone who might know. The company (MF) claim the new M6si has a fundementally different internal layout to the M6i. Is that just marketing hype to make a few tweeks sound sexier?

 

[Electro]

I don't know what part of the world you are from or what your budget is but I have a suggestion for you assuming you are from the UK or in Europe .

For streaming, DAC and amplification I would suggest the Electrocompaniet ECI 6DS........

......It may seem a little expensive compared with other rivals at a lesser price until you consider the quality , power and control the amplifier section offers over and above the others .

I'm in the UK.

I have been considering Electrocompaniet amps, but the nearest dealer is 80+ miles away and only has a very small number of their products on display, or available for a demo.

The all-in-one ECI 6DS is a bit OTT price wise IMHO, even considering the amp capability. The streamer element should be a relatively simple and inexpensive part of the package and the control interface wil be key. I have a strong suspicion that is where that particular product will fall down and as far as I can tell the price mark-up is simply not worth it.

I would like to try the ECI 5 mk2 though, as I briefly overheard one being demoed to a customer in Dubai earlier this year. The problem is the lack of dealers that I can get to easily.

Another consideration was the Musical Fidelity M6i, which is now being heavily discounted due to it's replacement (the M6si) being released.

I'm still not sure if the Elicit-R or Nait XS2 will be up to the job?

Fanthorpes have a nice mint used ECI5 mk2 for sale for a good price if you are interested .

http://www.fanthorpes.co.uk/second-hand/electrocompaniet-eci5-mkii-integrated-amplifier-2216793-418209-834973.php

Here is a helpfull review .

http://dagogo.com/electrocompaniet-eci-5-mkii-amplifier-review

Both the ATC scm40 and PMC OB1i need a good quality powerful high current amp to get the best from them and with 100 amps peak to peak the ECI5 MK2 will do the job perfectly

It's worth a try

 

[gowiththeflow]

I eventually started on my quest to demo the various speakers on my list, but I didn't get very far when a mint pair of OB1i's became available for a good price.

I couldn't pass up the chance, so decided to have a punt and bought them, even though I've never heard them before. Yep! the cardinal sin of buying unseen and unheard!!!!!

They are one of the last lot to be made, just before the Twenty series went on sale and are in "as new', absolutely mint condition, having been little used by the original owner and boxed up for most of their life.. At less than half the full price when new and almost a third of the price of their replacements, the Twenty-26, I couldn't pass up the chance and so far I'm pleased with what I've got for the money.

The amp I'm trying them with is a NAD M2, so I'm not short of a bit of Umph, or quality.

So far, mixed results. I was told to expect the amp to improve after a good running in period and that I might be underwhelmed until then. I was sceptical about that, despite also having read the same in a couple of the excellent reviews, but it seems to be the case from the last few weeks experience. There has been a noticeable improvement.

I hadn't considered the speakers, as I assumed they'd already be run-in, but from what I now know, they had such light use that they hadn't been fully run-in with their previous owner. There's a noticeable improvement in the deep bass from the initial occassionally slightly bloated and boomy sound right at the bottom and a rather dissappointingly light mid/upper bass. This has been replaced with an overall tightening up of the bass, with good extension, although I'm still experimenting with positioning.

Some new speaker cable is on the way too, so it'll be interesting to see if that has any effect.

So far my sources have been limited to an old Arcam CD player (co-ax) and Sonos Connect (co-ax). Next up is to connect the NAD M50 streamer/CD player/Ripper and a 30 day free trial subscription to Tidal, with its FLAC and ALAC streaming service.

There is a major issue though with the size of these beasts. Despite assessing the room beforehand, in the "flesh' they don't really fit in very well, due to the room layout, which can't really be changed much. The room is 25ft x 14ft, so there's plenty of space. It's just the positioning. I'm having to pull the speakers out into the room for listening, when SWMBO is out at work, but realistically they really can't stay there. To be honest, the room layout would be a problem with almost all speakers, floor or stand mounted.

A pair of Shahinian Arc's might be paying me a visit shortly, courtesy of a friend who's considering parting with them.

.

 

[Gazzip]

I am surprised to hear that the OB1i's are so negatively affected by being located close to the rear wall? The ATL port faces forward so providing you aren't too close to the side walls to avoid HF dispersion issues from HF driver you should be able to push them back to within a foot or so. Worked okay with my PB1i's when I had them. Lovely they were.....

A bit late now but you could do a lot worse than trying those ATC's if you can still find a pair. The upper range that PMC offer, (IB2, MB2, BB5), have a very similar soft domed 75mm MF driver in them that share a lot in common with the ATC mid, and it is a class above the MF rig in the OB1 and PB1.

 

[Macspur]

Hi,

It's always a risk buying blind, sometimes it pays off immediately, sometimes it pays off with time and unfortunately it can be a non starter.

If you decide that the PMC's aren't for you, I'm sure you'll be able to move them on quite quickly.

I'll be keen to see what you make of your friends speakers.

Keep us posted on your journey.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[gowiththeflow]

I am surprised to hear that the OB1i's are so negatively affected by being located close to the rear wall?

A bit late now but you could do a lot worse than trying those ATC's if you can still find a pair.

I appear not to have made myself clear. They are not negatively affected by proximity to a rear wall. It's a lack of a suitable position to place them in the room for listening, due to the room layout and their size and physical presence.

I'm having to haul them out into the room for a decent listening experience and then having to haul them back out of the way afterwards. Not an arrangement I wish to be permanent. Their parking place is out of the way and not at all good for stereo effect.

I'm still very interested in the ATC SCM40's, but now only in the new curved model, with the much improved tweeter. I'd still have the same positioning problems though and as the new ATC's are almost 50% heavier than the PMC's at over 30kg each, they are not going to be moved around much.

As SWMBO is away at the moment, the OB1i's are left sat out in the room and I'm having a good play and enjoying loads of music. The M2 and speakers are settling in nicely.

 

[gowiththeflow]

It's always a risk buying blind, sometimes it pays off immediately, sometimes it pays off with time and unfortunately it can be a non starter.

If you decide that the PMC's aren't for you, I'm sure you'll be able to move them on quite quickly.

I'll be keen to see what you make of your friends speakers.

It was always going to be a gamble sound wise, buying blind, but I knew I could move them on if it didn't work out. Hopefully with no financial loss either.

My friend's Shaninians are currently out of use as he's fallen for a pair of Harbeths; but he can't bring himself to sell them. If they work here, I'll be faced with the task of trying to prise them out of his hands as good secondhand examples are very hard to come by. The attraction is their renowned musicality, relative size and ease of placement. The upward firing drivers might be the solution to our particular room placement issues. I can only have a try and there's nothing to lose.

 

[Macspur]

It's always a risk buying blind, sometimes it pays off immediately, sometimes it pays off with time and unfortunately it can be a non starter.

If you decide that the PMC's aren't for you, I'm sure you'll be able to move them on quite quickly.

I'll be keen to see what you make of your friends speakers.

It was always going to be a gamble sound wise, buying blind, but I knew I could move them on if it didn't work out. Hopefully with no financial loss either.

My friend's Shaninians are currently out of use as he's fallen for a pair of Harbeths; but he can't bring himself to sell them. If they work here, I'll be faced with the task of trying to prise them out of his hands as good secondhand examples are very hard to come by. The attraction is their renowned musicality, relative size and ease of placement. The upward firing drivers might be the solution to our particular room placement issues. I can only have a try and there's nothing to lose.

Perhaps try his Harbeths while your at it?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[Electro]

I don't think your problem is the make or model of the speaker in use , any speaker will be seriously compromised if the position is badly wrong .

The transmission line PMC's are one of the less fussy types of speaker to work in an awkward room so it is quite possible that other speakers may sound even worse when placed in less than ideal positions , the Shahinians are worth a try but to work properly they will need plenty of space all round them .

Would something like the on wall PMC wafer speakers be of any interest to you ?

http://www.whathifi.com/pmc/wafer-2/review

 

[SteveR750]

I was under the belief that the Twenty.26 replaced the PB1i, and the 24s replaced the OB1i?

Has anyone heard the new curved SCM40 yet??

 

[Gazzip]

I was under the belief that the Twenty.26 replaced the PB1i, and the 24s replaced the OB1i?

Yes but not when this was originally posted.

Also there is still a limited stock of both the OB1i and the PB1i knocking about if you look hard enough.

 

[SteveR750]

There's a few OB and PB around discounted. I'm wondering how they compare to the 24 and 26? The 24 was a bit underwhelming, the 26 was superb.

 

[Electro]

I was under the belief that the Twenty.26 replaced the PB1i, and the 24s replaced the OB1i?

Has anyone heard the new curved SCM40 yet??

As far as I know the 24's are a replacement for the FB1i and the 26 for the OB1i , there has been no new model to replace the PB1i yet but I suspect there may be a 27 or 28 in future.

The PB1i was quite a bit bigger and more expensive than the 26 and I doubt the 26 has anywhere near the bass power or depth

 

[gowiththeflow]

As this thread has been resurrected, I might as well bring you up to date with my recent experiences with this set up.

Room placement is still a difficulty that I'm at a loss how to resolve. There just isn't a suitable place to position speakers properly, made worst by having large floorstanding models like the OB1i"s. I'm shortly going to be looking at smaller stand-mounted designs to see if they would be a better fit in our particular domestic environment. I feel that's a bit of a shame with a generously proportioned room (8 x 4 metres) that I thought would suit decent sized floormounters.

The other positioning issue I have is bass nodes. Firing down the length of the rectangular room is worst in this regard. Across the room facing a listening position on a large sofa is far better, but unfortunately I can't leave these particular speakers there in what is the middle of the room.

I had my friend's Shahinian Obelisk 2's on loan for a few weeks just before Christmas. Being on castors, moving them around was much easier and I was able to identify where the bass node problems were worst.

As for the OB1i and NAD M2 combination, I'm not that impressed. For such large transmission line speakers and a powerful amp, bass depth and quality is disappointing. There seems to be a "hole" in the mid bass region and lack of depth on all but the best recordings (n.b. everything is wired correctly). It all sounds a bit disjointed. The Shahinians were much better in the bass department, but a tad susceptible to room positioning with those boomy bass nodes.

I'm also disappointed with the treble quality too. Cymbols seem slightly recessed and muted on a lot of recordings and also can sound "slow" and truncated rather than having that natural splash and decay. Meanwhile, the mid band is lovely, clear and dynamic sounding. In fact I'm coming to the conclusion that the mid is often overwhelming the overall performance. The Shahinians were far better in the treble department and more evenly balanced overall and open.

It's not all doom and gloom though. Some recordings or streams sound very good indeed. I'm using Tidal (CD quality) and Spotify (320kbps) and getting excellent results from certain recordings. Others are not so good. CD material is disappointing too.

The speakers may/will have to go. Physical positioning aspects apart, I'm very disappointed with the sound quality. However, I'm hoping to try them with another amp first to see if the problem is the partnership with the M2. I'll do this regardless, even if I'm selling them on, just to make sure.

On the other hand, the NAD M2 may be the culprit. Of course I don't have the option of changing DAC's as the digital conversion is an integral part of the power amp section in this amp. i.e. it's effectively DAC'less. Even if I change speakers (which is likely), I might have to change the amp too.

All in all, a costly experiment that I think will run on for a while yet.

While I'm at it, the NAD/BlueSound BluOS app is pants. Slow to load and refresh and a mess in usability terms.

!

 

[Gazzip]

Hi gowiththeflow,

Sorry to hear that you aren't getting on with the OB1i's.

When I first switched from Mission to PMC in the early 2000's I was also very disapointed with the brand. So much so in fact that I ended up selling my entire system (PMC, Audiolab and Rega) and starting again from scratch with KEF and Cyrus. Kef hit the button for me as did the "zingy and detailed sound of the Cyrus", and I stuck with them right up until 2011 when I once again tried PMC in the form of the PB1i home demo. Initially the sound left me cold and wondering why PMC's were so popular. I found myself drifting away from 50% of my music collection and towards vocal music in order to make the darn speakers sound any "good" at all. After a little while it dawned on me that what I was hearing and not liking was some pretty pish poor recordings/masterings. No real colourations, no artificially extended frequencies that sound "amazing", just the music as it was originally recorded. I think this may be why some stuff is working for you and other stuff is not. Make no mistake, the PMC i series will not flatter a poor recording, they will completely expose it for what it is.

Your description of the sound as lacking bass and treble, but as being strong in the middle tallies with the neutral sound that PMC's present. The bass in all transmission lines is actually very, very deep. It can be nothing but very low as everything else has been damped out in the line. However, it is not as obviously thumping as the bass that comes from rear ported speaker designs. More breathy.

I think you should consider trying other brands to see if you like them better. I would have said that KEF would be a great place to start, with the R series getting my vote.

 

[gowiththeflow]

Thanks Gazzip.

Yes you can definately hear how bad some recordings are.

Bass wise, I'm not getting that tight and controlled sound from the lower notes at all. If anything, it can be a bit wooly at times and also a bit boomy (despite the room issues). Mid-bass although tighter, can also sound a little "sucked out" at times. The treble is far too recessed on almost all material, even where there are crashing cymbals

The Shahinian Obelisk 2's were far more balanced IMHO and generally more musical. I've also listened to my friend's new Harbeth 30.1's, but with different amps at his house and they were in another class altogether, aside from their obvious limitations in bass.

I'm hoping to hear some speakers next week and I'm going to take my amp along if I can, despite it weighing a ton. I'm keen to find out what's not working for me and where the fault lies; the speakers, the amp, or the combination?

?

 

[Gazzip]

If you like Harbeth and Shahihian then I would have thought the PMC's are definitely the wrong speaker for you. They are chalk and cheese. Be warned about the Obelisk 2's: They really are position sensitive and do not like being pushed back against walls and in to corners.

I would suggest that you also try ATC and EB Acoustics based upon your tendency towards the tighter and leaner sound offered by Harbeth. EB acoustics EB2 although a little long on order times are very fast, tight and musical little speaker that you can push right back against the wall due to their closed box configuration. Although I think from your description you would need to add a sub with the EB2's to give you the low end.

I still think the sound you seem to be looking for is quite Kef so I would urge you to try them as well. If your budget is in the £1500 reigon then the R500's might fit the bill. That said they are also rear ported so might compromise your room in terms of positioning.